WWYD?

[elephantsaregreen]

Sigh. There seem to be a lot of threads on here about men who need dumping and I am wondering if mine is one of them.

I've posted before on 'do I suck it up' and 'WWSGD'.

Things aren't right between us and he won't talk to me about it.

The last week of work this year was so incredibly hard. I have had a massively difficult 12 months at work and I think I almost had burnout. I was so totally exhausted, tired, fragile and drained. I cried at the drop of a hat and couldn't follow complex conversations for a few days.

My DP well, he barely noticed. He didn't lift a finger extra, he didn't even ask me how I was doing. All my normal chores continued and even though he had a couple of days at home while I was still at work, he didn't pitch in more around the house. He offered me zero comfort. I think it's fair to say I was as unwell as I have ever been mentally and I had to cope with it all on my own.

Thank goodness we went away for a few days and stayed with friends. They were really supportive of me and offered to watch the kids if I wanted a nap, etc.

This isn't new. He is the quintessential man of few words, introverted and has depressive tendencies. But he won't talk about any of that. If I try to talk about stuff he gets annoyed, feels 'got at' and stonewalls me. I feel like I've been beating my head against a brick wall. For years.

I have been seeing a counselor and am thinking through what it would mean to split. We have two children 4 + 3 and own a house together and I can't even begin to imagine what it would mean financially. But of course, I am also spending time worrying about him and what it would mean to his circumstances.

How do I muster the strength to dissolve this household and family for what feels like selfish reasons? Because I feel like I want to be with a man who behaves as if I matter and who cares about what I might be going through?

Was he always this way? Depressive and introverted? And did it not seem so big a deal as you were not as pressured?

I know it seems daunting, but don't worry about the detail of splitting yet, try to focus on making the decision on whether to call time. Has he any idea you feel like this? I doubt it from what you say.

It sounds like one of those awful 'being alone in a room full of people' situations.

He isn't always completely withdrawn. He emerges when he is enthusiastic about some things... like his hobbies. He is great with the kids.

Thanks for the response.
It has always been a big deal for me, but when I am not 'needy' we seem to cruise along ok. But I am really tired of feeling like I need to be completely emotionally independent. and that I can't talk to my partner about what's going on in my life.

I feel like it's time to call 'time'. and I suggested the other day that we should talk about the relationship, that we seem to be fighting a lot. His response was 'yup'. So I suggested if this wasn't a good time to talk that he should suggest/pick another time (as long as it's before I go back to work). His response was 'yup'. But I bet my bottom dollar that he won't raise it with me.

I do want to tell him that it's at this point for me. Either we work on it together or split as he doesn't have a clue it's this bad. But he should. if he was paying attention, iyswim.

I'm feeling pretty guilty for putting my own 'needs' first.

Don't feel guilty atall , if you don't look after your own needs, no one else will, as you can see!

You have a right to be happy and to be heard. His 'Yup' would infuriate me, what a bloody cheek. Yup? That just looks childish and arrogant. He is treating you with contempt and I wouldn't blame you for wanting out. Being in a partnership is great for sharing, its the main point, and yet it seems rather one sided. He is great with the kids, so he still will be if you split. He can turn it on for them, so why not you?

I know that someone will come along and mention counselling, they usually do, but honestly, when contempt sets in I think it's all over bar the packing.

When you visualise living apart, does it seem like a nice, peaceful alternative?

You ask great questions perfumed! (Thanks for the validation, it's really helpful)

visualising living apart feels hard and we would both be gutted to have to give up the house which we have both invested a lot in. But maybe I am jumping the gun by thinking that far ahead. (I'm a planner though)

Things are pretty peaceful now as he avoids all confrontation. But I am wound up inside.

I also feel like I am asking too much of him. Like he isn't capable of making an effort with me, so I'm a mug for expecting it. Which leads me to believe we would both be better off alone.

But tbh I am a bit scared of being alone. I sure wouldn't miss the rejection that I feel when he avoids talking to me like that.

Sorry you're going through this :(

How did you feel before the end of the year?

Do you feel rested from work now?

In other words, do you think that if you were feeling recharged and not stressed/tired this would still be a problem for you?

I don't know your man atall so to be fair to him, are there stresses at work for him? Clearly when you fell in love this side of his nature was not as evident/irritating but that doesn't mean you should just suck it up. Being ignored is awful. There has to be some way of getting his full attention.

Have you asked him to go to counselling? If it were me I would tell him it was counselling or separate, the status quo cannot continue. And ok, you are feeling calmer at the moment, but when the next big stressor comes along, he won't be there for you. It's so unusual too, I always find men want to fix problems instead of just listening to us pour it out, and yours isn't even hearing you.!

I do feel rested from work now. enough that I am not fragile or loopy or anything. But this is still a problem for me. It's almost like he is incapable of tuning into me at all. and it has been for a while. I talked to a friend of mine the other day and she pointed out that I had this very conversation with her two years ago.

I have asked him to go to counseling, several times, which he has refused. He struggles to articulate himself. (I am very articulate with a social work background. I think he would feel threatened in counseling).

To me it feels like it's always up to me to 'fix things' even after a fight, he never tries to bridge the gap, hardly ever touches me. Never apologizes or takes responsibility for anything.

Yes, he is stressed at work, but I'm powerless to help and he isn't doing anything to improve his situation. He is in a newish job now because his other one was really hard and through my connections he got this better one but it's still hard. He is a builder and basically needs to do something other than build. I understand how hard all that is on him, but I am running out of goodwill and/or empathy towards him.

As usually he is going on with things as though everything is fine. I'm feeling sad and lonely and he doesn't notice. and when I tell him how I feel he gets defensive.

also for context. We only knew each other for a short while before getting pregnant. 3 months.

It seems to me that this is all there is, he is showing you his true self, and what you see is what you get. The problem is, it's not enough.

My sister talked to me for five years about a similar issue with the dh, she gave up talking to him. Eventually she called time last year and is amazed that all the bad habits he had are now magically gone! She can't understand why he didn't make those changes when they were married. I think he is just being this way through lack of choice, he is living with his mum so goes out to the gym/socialising/whatever to meet someone and set up home, whereby he will go back to being the lazy layabout he was with her.

When someone shows you who they are, we would do well to take notice.

Maybe it really has just run it's course. you didn't know each other terribly well before starting a family and, what with all the busy life and raising of kids, you didn't really have time to be bothered by it. Now you are looking at spending the rest of your life being invisible...it's a hellish thought.

thanks for the reassurance. I do feel terribly sad but I can't help feeling like there is more to a relationship than this. Ug.

I feel like I am putting myself before the kids which is hard. I feel like I have made a mess of my life..

Elephants - if you don't - who will?

You only have one life and it's not always as long as we would like it to be either, you are the only one who can make the most of it.

Staying in a relationship that doesn't make you happy isn't good for your children, you don't have to have screaming matches for the atmosphere to be bad for them. How would you feel if the children mirrored your or DH's behaviour in the future - would you want them to feel how you feel? You are teaching them that this is how relationships are - is this the lesson you want them to learn?

I do understand what you mean about feeling you have ruined your life - but I think what we have to think about is that life is a path, full of cross roads, roads to turn down and so we constantly have choices that will change our current direction - we can't go back, but we can change direction at any time.

There is more to a relationship than what you have and we are all entitled to be as happy as we possibly can. You being happy will make your children happy now and in the future.

I'm sorry this is long and a bit waffly, it would be much easier to talk IRL - I'd give you a big hug to go with all of this x

I would tell him that it is counselling or the end of the road - his choice. Frankly, I'm not sure counselling will change his attitude, but if you give it a go then you will have given it your best shot to make the relationship work.

Hi,

I don't want to undermine how you are feeling at all but have you tried asking him for help/what you need? I have a DH who is given to avoiding confrontation and doesn't notice my desperation/avoids noticing deliberately. He often just needs to have it absolutely spelled out, then he gets annoyed with me briefly because he doesn't like criticism or confrontation but after he is very guilty and kind. Only you know what point you have reached in your own relationship but I do think a lot of men grow up being taught by society that they only need to notice themselves and their own needs and as a consequence they need to be told all the time what you need and expected to consider your feelings. That said I do need to be made to consider my DH's feelings fairly often too. It can be difficult for anyone to not be wrapped up in themselves and even more difficult when both partners in a relationship are going through stress and needing support at the same time... Not that this is necessarily what is happening here.... I am naval gazing...

Hi all, thanks.

Curious, you make a good point, I honestly feel I have told him what I need and in positive supportive constructive ways. (as well as tearful ways).

My problem is that everything else in our life is pretty good, but I fear that I have lost my sense of perspective and that I have just gotten used to everything as it is.

My best friends all think I would split up with him, which is pretty telling.

Although I think I wouldn't be better off alone, but I do think I would be better off with someone else, iyswim. But I can't make decisions based on hypothetical futures.

PS - I live in the southern hemisphere, hence the delay in responding.

Thanks all

If you tell him and he doesn't listen that is a big problem. My DH doesn't LIKE listening but he does. Always. Everytime. He takes criticism on the chin... Eventually! If you feel he will not accommodate your needs even when you tell him it is almost certainly his problem. For you to both be happy you both need to consider each others needs. This doesn't work out to be equal always, sometimes one person will need more than the other and that just has to be dealt with. I think maybe the only way to deal with this is to sit down and have a serious chat with him about how you feel and if he still can't understand try telling him that you are going to couples counselling or separate counselling. If he won't go then you will have to leave I would imagine, which obviously seems quite drastic but clearly you can't easily cope living in a relationship where your needs just are not considered to this extent. Needs are just that, you can't help having them... It would be entirely ridiculous of him to end the relationship because he won't go to counselling but that would show you once and for all the lengths he will go to to avoid dealing with problems in his Relationship IMO.

Thanks Curious. You've summed it up really well. Funnily enough he is being a bit more attentive/generous today. But I still feel pretty lonely. I will go and see my counselor one more time on my own and then probably sit down and talk to him.

men are strange creatures...

It will take time to repair it... Leaving is jumping the gun, hopefully if he can appreciate how badly you feel you'll be able to work it out... Should add sometimes my DH doesn't agree with what it is I think I need but he does listen to what I say and steps up when necessary so having to actually tell him when I need him is a small price... Hope it goes ok, good you have a counsellor to talk to.

Just a slight word of warning. I was with someone who didn't hear me and I thought it was about how I expressed myself. Eventually I realised that he simply didn't want to hear me. It took a long time for me to recognise this because he upped his game when he sensed I'd had enough, becoming helpful and reasonable for short periods of time. As a consequence it took a very long time before I realised that the relationship was really over.

Secrets, you've written what I wanted to reply to more than one current thread - only I would have put "he simply didn't care what I had to say". It is hard to know when you've perfected your own input to relationship (and it still isn't working) especially since, as you said, the other player will change the game as you do.

If I had my time over, I'd change my brief to my counsellors. They did help me immensely, in terms of improving my communication skills, but I never asked them whether I was already doing enough & should now quit!

ItsGraceAgain - I did actually ask our Relate counsellor 'when will I know when I've done enough'! Obviously, it wasn't up to her to answer that question but it was the one question I really struggled with.

Good debate.

Curious, I have had moments where I am in tears, sobbing and he doesn't react. I've told him things like; 'I need affection like I need air to breathe' and 'I feel like I am cutting off a limb' by holding back so he doesn't feel smothered. I literally don't know how else to explain myself to him. I've tried what I call 'bloke-speak' and just been direct.

When I was in counseling previously, he never asked about it, didn't engage with it at all. I learned a few coping strategies which were basically, a) give him space and b) reinforce good behaviour. I just fell that this advice was a bit condescending. He is an adult, not a child. He should be able to talk to me. but he can't. and a bit of 'won't' too.

The other day, it was his night to cook and he had been home for a day or two, but there wasn't any food in the house. I came home feeling exhausted. really really stressed. and he declared he didn't feel like cooking or going out for takeaways. I ended up going out for bread so we could have toasted cheese sandwiches. He seemed surprised when I was angry and then when I burst into tears declaring how exhausted I was he didn't even get up from his chair.

I know men can feel intimidated when women collapse into tears, but c'mon...

Secrets, you make an excellent point. He may be upping his game because he senses things are bad, but you are right, it doesn't last long.

I'm feeling very sad now.

I agree with Curious about men...I need to be so much more clear and explicit with dh and it took me a while to realise he was rubbish at subtle hints

Have you told him you are thinking of going and why? How has he reacted to that isdea? If he still isn't prepared to be more considerte after this, then I would say its time to go.

Don't see it as failure. You are teaching something about what a marriage should look like to your kids, by going. Do you want them growing up thinking women should be disregarded?

I haven't told him yet the extent of how I'm feeling. but will do so soon. I thought I would see how the holidays go when we are both more relaxed and away from work.

Part of the problem is I can be as unsubtle as I like, but he still can't communicate or immediately get's defensive. It's very difficult.

Agree with everything lydwatt said... Have namechanged back from "Curiousnamechange" since anonymity is no longer an issue!!!

How have the holidays gone? If the problem is that he just can't communicate then being relaxed is unlikely to solve it. Has he ever been able to talk?