Have taken my wedding ring off, please help me!

[cba]

I dont post often, usually in time of difficulty, but I am on each day reading.

My dh had an affair which I found about a few years ago, the affair lasted almost three years. I took him back and said never again. Things seemed fine for a while, I fell pregnant with child number four. dh has always worked away and has often nagged me to live in london I have always said no as he has never been the most supportive, i have been bullied by his alocholic mother for twelve years then his affair. His mother blamed me for his affair.

Anyway, in september after being away "working" for three weeks he came home but went straight out to the pub. I phoned him and said unless he came home to see me and his four children he could stay in a hotel. He came home and started quizing why he never came home on a weekend and the fact that I am alone with our four children all the time. He confessed to another affair. I was heartbroken again and threw him out. It was ds1 10th birthday a week or two later so I allowed him back into the house. He said the relationship had finished and it would never happen again.

Two days ago I found a receipt from the end of November for a famous london department store for £600.00 paid for by his card with her reward card details on. I went upstairs and said who is "sally" (not real name). He nearly choked. He tried to fob me off with every excuse till he did confess that he was still in contact with her. But it was now finished.

I told him I do not believe him and I no longer want to be married to him. I am heartbroken and hurt but cannot allow him to do it again, I think he will. This affair has been going on for fourteen months, the exact same age as our baby.

We have four children ds1 10, ds2 8, dd 5 and ds3 14 months. How do I handle it with the children, what do I tell them, they will be hearbroken. Please help me

Obviously you will be better off with him out of your life, but I think you should stay out of what he chooses to tell his parents. It's his decision. Once you are divorced they will be his family not yours.

Well you sound more determined than your earlier posts, which is good to see.

OP, once an unfaithful party has seen the pain a first infidelity has caused, is forgiven and then does it again, it is not just infidelity you are dealing with. It is contempt.

Resist any attempts by anyone to blame you for this. He is following his mother's earlier lead and passing the responsibility for his infidelity over to you. I expect he has been infantilised all his life and believes that nothing is ever his responsibility, not even spending £600 of the family's budget on a present for his OW.

On the other hand, you can never be held responsible for another person's behaviour choices.

Please don't bargain this away again because of the DCs, your religion, your families' views or any notions that he is a good father. Good Dads don't tend to repeatedly hurt the mother of their children and if you stay in this marriage, even if it is name only, this will be an appalling example to your DCs.

Please don't wait till July to separate. Do it now and don't waver.

If however you decide to forgive again, or let this rumble on for another few months, be very aware that this will be an active choice you are making and won't necessarily be about the DCs and their feelings. Living in an atmosphere of mutual contempt and hatred will corrode your spirit and that of your DCs.

You do know that this is absolutely not your fault, don't you? That even though all relationships have flaws and weak spots that involve both partners, the decision to deal with any doubts by turning to infidelity is 100% his own responsibility?

The fact that he has not actually accepted responsibility (by trying to make out it is all your fault) is a very strong indicator that he will never stop this level of cheating on you and is not genuinely sorry at all. Afraid of what he might lose, upset and panicked that he has been caught and looks like having to 'do the time', selfish fears, but not actually sorry.

I would not live with a man who was so dishonest, and I think you have to look at the relationship between his mother's attitude (YOU are responsible fo the pathetic behaviour of a man) and his own behaviour. he is a terrible role model, accepting hi gives a terrible example to his children as to what is OK or endurable in a marriage, and will leave your self-respect and pride threadbare.

Separating from him doesn't mean the end of his relationship with the children: seek advice, divorce him, but then with your dignity intact, do what you can to remain on speaking terms and make sure that when he isn't shagging his way round the county (sorry [sad) he sees as much of the children as possible.

What was the £600 receipt for? Are you sure he isn't running a parallel household? It doesn't sound like a personal gift if he was using her loyalty points.

By my reckoning too, he has been unfaithful for at least 4 of the 13 years you have been together, with at least 2 different women. It is not you throwing away 13 years at all.

Thanks ladies, you are really helping me. The receipt is for designer clothes. I am so angry I never spend a penny on myself and make do with what I have. Even if I was to treat myself it would never be for that amount.

He has said that it is totally his fault and accepts all responsibilty and that he should have come to me with the problems and feelings he had regarding our marriage. He also said that he never properly dealt with the feelings of why he cheated the first time and consequently cheated again.

I know I cannot forgive him. Despite how awful this all reads he is in essence a good man. But then, I always look on the bright side of life. I am totally different in character. It would not have mattered how bad I thought things were I would never have cheated.

Hi CBA, I saw your OP this morning and wanted to post all day. I was in a very similar situation, and I didn't leave - doesn't mean I won't or wish I hadn't though. I took my wedding ring off, but put it back on because I didn't want anyone asking questions. The children asked why I wasn't wearing it anymore.

I also wanted to say please don't leave it until the Summer to make the break. I am now feeling some sense of responsbility for breaking up the family - it is easy to chug along, and think "this isn't so bad". But it IS. And it will be AGAIN. Then you are the one saying 'it's over' and the one left feeling you are destroying your family.

Now is the time to have a meeting with a solicitor. It does seem quite final, but its only the start of the process. It will be an initial (often free for the first session) talk through things.

I would also recommend (very strongly) that you speak to Relate, either on the phone or face-to-face. Their first question to you will be "do you want help staying, or do you want help leaving?" They will be able to help you navigate the turmoil.

And a united front with the children is the only way. Whatever happens with you and him, the children must know they are loved as much as they ever were.

It will happen again. I'm waiting for the next time. Last night was the worst NY I've ever had, like you I'm a positive person, but having had the year from Hell, my faith in my husband shattered and bewildered by what can happen, how someone can do THAT to me, has left me damaged and so, so sad.

Good luck with this. There is a lot of help and support on here. Take care.

Do not wait until the summer.

I was a child who wished her parents would divorce. I still wish they would.

I'm not sure the relationship between my parents was the same as yours with your husband - as far as i know there have been no affairs, however there's always been mutual pshychological abuse to eachother and as subtle as it could be, it never went unnoticed (by me).

I grew unable to trust anyone; not knowing what a normal relationship between a couple should be (as a child i was quite amazed when on a car journey with a relative's family that their dad didn't stop the car and threaten to leave my mum on the side of the road if she talked too much etc, but that's another story).

Your children will notice things are not right between you too. Ofcourse they would like you two to have a normal good relationship, however if that's not possible, they would want you to be happy. Happy parents= happy children. And if you can't be happy together (obviously you are not), then try and make it alone.

Sorry, long story, but for your children i would not wait until the summer.

cba, you sound lovely.

Of course he isn't all bad, you wouldn't have loved him in the fist place, and spent so much time with him if he was! I felt it was a tragedy when my parents broke up - not the wrong thing to happen, my Dad had betrayed my Mum very badly, her throwing hi out and reclaiming her self respect and a relationship with honesty and straightforwarness was the right thing, but I felt furious with him over the waste. they had a GOOD marriage. They enjoyed each other's company, they did things together, they did not stagnate. But my dad's flaw was that he just didn't stay faithful. She forgave twice and the third time was no longer forgivable. It was exasperating and unforgivable that the thing he couldn't manage, amid many good points, was the thing that could have kept the together - a waste.

I'm sorry to say that I still don't believe your DH. I think he had the second affair because he enjoyed it, it flattered his ego, and because he got away with it the first time.

thank you blu. It did flater his ego you are completely right. Whilst he was having the second affair we maybe made love twice. I did try and initiate on quite a few times but got the cold shoulder now I know why.

It is not the sex that bothers me, although bad. It is the lying and emotional involvement.

The fact that he said it was over in September but then when on to have further contact and me finding out two days after christmas has absolutely destroyed me.

He really wants to try and make ago of it and understands if I do not want to. I am really in turmoil. Despite the hurt and deceit we still had a lovely family new years eve last night. He also been the most attentive to the children over the festive period than he ever ever has.

But at what point do you decide enough is enough. We have had a long talk today and he said it was not particularly the sex it was the time they spent doing things as a couple. Being very honest we never do anything as a couple which is probably very deep rooted. Going as far back as the first affair, to the bullying his alcoholic mother put me through this is just not as straight forward as it may seem in black and white.

I think I may go to relate for counselling by myself and tell him to go to. I know everything about the affair I think I now need to know. I find to easier to deal with things if I know the whole truth or as close to the truth as I may get.

Sandsad, what was so awful about your night? Despite me hating him for what he has done we really did have a good laugh last night. But the hurt is truly awful and hard to deal with. How long did the affair go on for and how did you find out about, if you dont mind me asking?

Well, I'll tell you the next part of my parents splitting up story. My Mum threw him out, he went and lived elsewhere. He hardly saw us children at all while he was gone, if at all. I think he was ashamed (but we were grown up, late teens, early 20s). My Mum was broken. But bit by bit she picked herself up, she found that she could manage, she became truly strong.

Then a year later there was a crisis. My dad drove through the night to be with her, wanted to come back. She accepted his help, but kept her distance, asked a lot of questions, and took the time to make a decision about what she wanted, and on what terms. Having done that, and given herself every opportunity to explore all the reasons he might want to come back, and making the decision from a strong and independent position, not as his victim, they are back together, happily. He has not messed her about since, and is far more considerate towards her and appreciative of her.

But every time she let him stay when he assured her 'it was over', and she was still distraught at the idea of losing him...it was never over.

You know you can see Relate on your own to deal with the your relationship? If he's absolutely genuine in his remorse, he'll wait. You can decide how you feel without him begging and doing his best to show how great he can be.

He's had 2 long affairs, spent serious amounts of money on them, lied to you over long periods, allowed you the humiliation and outrage of his mother saying it's your fault (how DARE he have put you through that?).

He may well be worth it in the end, but it will be much better if you make that decision from distance and with the strength of independence.

I think you're trying to talk yourself into forgiving again cba. I'd also disagree that you've heard everything you need to know about his affair in a few short days; everything you want to know for now, perhaps.

You say that you had a good NYE and he's been brilliant with the DCs, when he isn't normally. What you've been seeing all these years is the real him, not the coward who's been found with his fingers in the till yet again and is trying to woo you with good behaviour.

For your own esteem and self-respect and not least your childrens' sake, cut him loose. I hadn't absorbed the fact that this would actually constitute a third act of forgiveness on your part, since you learned in September about the latest affair and he lied that it was over. I go back to what I said earlier - he is treating you with contempt and thinks that no matter what he does, you will forgive him. Perhaps he's right.

thanks again. I am not about to forgive him.
Whenwill, you are right I have heard what I need for know, it is not the end of what I need to know. I can only manage it in short steps if that makes sense.

He is remorseful, but for how long? and how will things pan out when back working away? who knows. He asked that we go to relate. I have told him to go for independent counselling. He has said if there is any light at the end of the tunnel he will prove to me he can be faithful and be the man he was at the beginning of the relationship.

I am not looking through rose tinted glasses and I am going to do things on my own terms and my own speed and decide what is best for me. I am not going to live a life of wondering whether he is keeping it in his pants. I am taking my time. I am going to see a solicitor and take all my evidence so everything is recorded.

The only thing I am unsure about is whether to tell his father or not. Should that be up to him to do?

blu, that is a lovely end to an unhappy situation. I am thinking of going to relate alone as I dont feel as though I can make sense of things alone. I really do feel mixed up, sad and hurt. I fluctuate from being very sad to very angry in such short periods of time.

Thank you all for your advice it really is helping me. I am not going to be a doormat and whatever I decide the decision will be about me as a woman and an independent person who deserves love and respect.

Hi Cba, what a terrible thing to be happening to you.

You mention that your husband missed time spent with you as a couple and that this affair filled that void. It must be very difficult when he works away. Can I ask why after the first affair you didn't consider living in london. Just to make clear that his behaviour is in no way your fault, but men can feel lonely and feel that they are not being supported too. Maybe he felt that you were rejecting him.

What sort of relationship does your DH have with his mother. Is it warm, close, supportive? or was she alcoholic, trouble making and selfish throughout his childhood? She might actually have even more to answer for! Did she reject him as a child?

You say that the sexual side of the affair doesn't bother you as much as the emotional. Your husband seemed to need to fill the emotional gap in his life.

I don't really have any advice, it is not for me or others to tell you what you should do.

Many years ago I unwittingly found myself the OW in a similar situation and the man regretted very much that he wasn't with his family. She refused to move with him when his business needed to work from the south. The guilt was unbearable for him but the loneliness was crippling.
Take care and consider all your options.

nge, cba has 4 children, and says her DH had never been the most supportive. How far is a woman supposed to go to carry a family? Maybe some men do succumb over loneliness etc, but why should a woman need to be even stronger to protect himself from himself? To do the emotional work for both of them? A real man can dot hat for himself, so weep tears for your own duplicitous man, but sorry, weakness in them is the problem.

If you decide the marriage is over, you need to work on separating as quickly as possible. Now that violence has occurred, it might well occur again: it's awful for a couple to live in the same house when they are splitting up and there is serious resentment on one or both sides.

cba in answer to the following question that you asked: "What is the relationship like between your mom and dad now?"...

Let me first say that I am not and wouldn't encourage you to stay in a relationship that has lost all trust and hope...but to answer your question factually, I think that my mom and dad get on okay. He is very affable/good company and she does loves him but, i think, has some regret/pity about the fact that she gave so much more than he did to her family - she recognises his "selfishness" in this regard, though he is very selfless in other matters. She is consoled by the fact that she did her best and that her children know this and appreciate this so she has personal peace.

nge, i respect your honesty. Yes, dh said it was to fill the emotional void. There were many reasons why I did not leave and go live in london. If you look through previous threads you will see. But in a nutshell his first affair left me in a bad place in addition to constant bullying from his alcoholic mother I did not feel strong enough to move to a totally new area three hundred miles from where I live now with no support and help with a cheating husband.

His mother has always been an alocholic and very selfish, she has tried to commit suicide ever since he was one and a half. But puts across a good act of the doting mother, in fact she is absolutely toxic and narcisstic (sp). I have no doubt he my mind this has left him very needy as an adult, but he is an adult at the end of the day.

I now have to take time to make myself feel good and be in a strong place to do best for me and my family. I know he is very weak and it is a quality i do not admire. He should have been strong and come to me with his issues and been honest and dealt with it like married couples are supposed to. I have done everything over the years to keep the marriage alive with lots of knock backs because of his guilt.

Stuffing, it was a moment of madness from me due to being at the brink of despair due to his ranting that it was my fault. It was years of pent up fustration which will never happen again. I am sad, i am confused and down but feel at ease with myself.

We have put the children to bed and sat and talked some more. But I am all talked out now and ready for bed to try and sleep.

I thank you all, tomorrow is a new day and maybe the day may bring a little happiness to my life.

nge, just a few questions as I am quite curious. If you knew the man was married and the wife had not moved and he was riddled in guilt why would you continue to have a relationship? Was it in the hope that the marriage would dissolve?

I understand if you do not want to answer but my husband said he always talked about me which I find very hard to believe and find it harder to believe why a single woman would put up with that? Was it the sex, the gifts, the company?

Forgive me if it is too personal to answer.

While my situation is not the same, I recognise some of your thought processes, I think. My parents separated when I was young and it was the last thing I wanted for my DCs. We did Relate for 18 months and it was the counsellor who made me question what I was doing. I felt that I couldn't leave the relationship until I felt I'd done enough and simply didn't know when I'd feel that.

That said, it has been shocking just how much our DCs picked up of the situation. My oldest DS1 (13) had a nightmare shortly after we separated which showed he had greater clarity about the dynamic in my relationship with my H than I did. Even my youngest (6) who's really struggling to cope with the separation and would prefer us back together, says that I am better away from my H. My take is that I'm completely failing to cope at times which makes me really question how I was behaving prior to the separation.

I find it really difficult to cope as a single parent and absolutely hate it BUT the DCs actually think I am a better parent in spite of this.

I was where you are now but have had to realise that I don't always know what is best for everyone, least of all me!

I don?t mind answering your questions. When I met him he was ?separated? and he told me it was because she would not move.

He kept two houses and he took care of her , his child and her children from her previous marriage.

They had daily contact in the form of telephone calls, he spoke to her & children. I spoke to her several times on the phone just to take messages over practical matters, broken window, burst pipe, builders etc. So I had no reason to suspect they were not separated.

Over time it became obvious that he loved her and felt rejected and that it was her lack of commitment, unwillingness to move and support him on a daily basis. He felt guilty that he wasn?t there for the children. However he also felt that it was his job to provide for them and that he was doing the right thing, she had no qualifications and financially had never contributed so he felt it was his responsibility and therefore she should support him in that.

His mother was narcissistic and selfish, he kept her too, paid many of her bills, the only time she showed up was to complain that she needed something! She had always put herself first, then the father and finally him.

Over time we spoke and it became clear that he still loved her and that every time he visited they argued but I felt that he needed to resolve issues with her. I cared very deeply for him, for all is success he was actually a very sensitive, kind and good person. I left and implored him to go back home, even if it meant living on bread and water! Six months later he rang and told me he had taken my advice, he was happy and I wished him well.

Did he talk about her, no not constantly but he would become morose and open up and tell me things. He was very sad, lots had happened between them and these issues had never been resolved. Did I want gifts and holidays, I was 22 years old and I have him to thank for world holidays and having experienced a life a might not have lived.

I?m not sure if any of this will help you but these situations are complex, always three sides to a story, in this case 4! Yours, his, hers and the truth. Just keep an open mind and keep looking for the truth, take your time and don?t make serious decisions when you are hurting. I really feel for you and hope you can find the right way.

cba you invited us to look at your earlier threads, so I did. I now see that in addition to the infidelity you have detailed on this thread, he was inappropriately texting up to 4 other women just before he started this particular affair. It seems to me that this man is incapable of fidelity and so if you continue in this relationship, I think you will have to accept that he will never be faithful.

What was even more disturbing however was to read your thread about the names he called you and the way he spoke to you with utter contempt, years ago. It appears that you have been making more bargains than first appeared.

I suspect you're desperate to believe these tales of an emotional void and that if you had done more as a couple and been together more, he wouldn't have been unfaithful, but honestly, given his incapacity for fidelity and contempt for you, this will be yet another false bargain.

A psychiatrist would have a field day tracing back where his contempt for women comes from, but given his mother issues, I expect you can have a good guess.

Oh and incidentally, tell exactly who you want to tell, including his family. It's no longer his secret to keep, because it affects the whole family. I can virtually guarantee that once his parents and other people know, he will revert back to blaming you for all of this. His contrition will evaporate instantly.

Your son is giving you permission to end the marriage, not that you needed it. At the very least, he is being damaged by this example of a relationship.

I assume you have also realised that this latest affair hasn't ended?

cba - in answer to your question, it wasn't an affair as such. Firstly inappropriate texting, which got sexual (he was chasing, I am certain nothing physical happended). I took this on, accepted responsibility for my relationship, went to Relate, tried to feel better about myself - did stuff basically to improve things.
Then he met someone, texting went on, whether or not it was physical I don't know, but I suspect so. He also had a RL indiscretion - a one night stand type thing. He went to counselling, I gave him til Christmas, he let me down again as he continued to text this woman.

I can draw many, many parallels with your experience (moving, children, punch in the face), and I also had a thread which had to be deleted as it crossed over into RL. WWIFN was an enormous help to me. I am very happy to talk to you off-thread and share more of my story if it will help you. WWIFN, I'm sure, will vouch for me if you want to PM me. She knows my story.

When I had my thread, I had periods of empowerment, where I would take control, I was running to fight of the depressive fog which was threatening me. 4 months on I have lost that battle, I am two stone heavier, full of self-loathing. I have no direction and no faith in anyone. He let me down again by not meeting the conditions I imposed when I told him I would stay (only 3, nothing which would have impacted massively). I only told him I would stay because I felt I was having a breakdown and my mental health was suffering badly. I just couldn't be miserable anymore and I thought I was taking some control. I wasn't, it hasn't gone away.

I have found NY so hard because looking back is so painful, and looking forward so bleak.

I think you have a long way still to go with this. Moments of clarity and strength are great, but beware of the false sense of security. You may still glance the man you fell in love with from time to time, but he is the man who betrayed you and your family.

Sounds bitter, doesn't it? Sorry.

I understand just what Sandsad is saying, so do listen to her cba. I think the hardest thing I have to deal with is the fact that I let the situation go on for so long, hoping, praying etc that it would improve. It didn't, I just got less and less able to rise above it or deal with it. By the time we separated I was exhausted and I am still struggling with my energy levels nearly 18 months on!