So confused...should I stay or should I go? Advice, please!

[twentyeleven]

Have been with dp for 10 years, and we have 2 lovely children of 2 and 5. Dp and I got together after he left his wife (a substance abuser). He had much guilt over leaving as she was very dependent on him and the first 3-4 years of our relationship were much about damage control in that respect. Divorce at that point was an unthinkable option. We had issues in that he lied to me about his contact with her (the extent of it) and would hide his phone etc (ftr I never thought he was sleeping with her, more that she was still his strongest emotional tie). Eventually things improved, we had dc1, and that was magical, then we moved home and dc2 came along as planned.

Dp is 20 years older than me (I am 36). Although that was not a big issue at the start of the relationship (45 seemed reasonably young) I am starting to really feel it now, but I feel that I have probably made my bed on that score and I shouldn't complain.

Dp suffers from depression (usually 2-3 days of feeling very very low every 4-6 weeks). Over this year his depressive episodes have been getting longer and more frequent. As he feels this is inexplicable, he has got ADs which for some reason he is yet to take (I have asked him but got an evasive answer). When he is depressed he is pretty vile towards me (never physically but sneering and condescending). He on the other hand thinks I am unsupportive when he needs me most. I guess there is truth on both sides, although I feel like I have tried really hard to support him over the years.

Dp is an excellent father (and he knows it) - creative, patient, loving, caring, thoughtful, emotionally demonstrative. In our own relationship he is rarely like this, to be fair neither am I. We don't kiss anymore, s** is infrequent and passionless and we don't tend to hold hands/hug. I no longer desire him, but I do still love him.

The upside (!) is that I still find him an interesting, intellectually stimulating and witty person. We don't generally argue in front of the children and co-parent reasonably well (though we do like to do things differently). The children love our family unit and the thought of breaking that up and their confusion and upset, as a result, breaks my heart. However, over the course of the year I now feel we have reached a point where the funa nd interesting discussions over dinner have become fewer and fewer and we now seem to argue and find fault of each other instead.

We have discussed our issues and he thinks that over the course of this year we have hit a low but that we should stay together because we have children. I think because of his age he doesn't mind if his relationship is not all that because he has already lived a full and interesting life and now gets his joy from the kids. But I don't feel like that, I need the great relationship too.

I have recently grown closer to a male friend of my own age. We are not having an affair but he has shown me the potential of what a trusting, supportive relationship could be like.

A great relationship is something that I see as very important in my life. If it wasn't for the children I would leave but I don't want to ~~~~ them up; my happiness is secondary to theirs. HI am not being abused, and have a great co-parent, should I just put up and shut up??

Staying together for the sake of the children is something that the children won't actually thank you for doing. This is a broken family unit and the children are picking up on all this unhappiness you both show.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?.

What are you both teaching them about relationships here?. Think on that and the above question as well.

Better to be apart and happier than to be together and miserable as you are now. He seems selfish in the extreme and refuses to take the ADs prescribed for his depressive state. You have become increasingly closer to someone closer to your age which may or may not develop further. You wrote yourself you would leave if it was not for the children. Don't make them responsible for your own adult problems; only you can do that.

Thanks atilla. That is the crux of the issue: are children better off with both parents (who despite what I have said, get along reasonably well and still do family outings etc together) or are they better off in a shared care arrangement: 2 homes etc where their parents may not even end up that much happier?

I should add that although all the above is true, dp is an immensely thoughtful and popular man. Everyone likes him. He's just not a great partner to me (and prob not me to him either).

He will continue to get more depressed, more often if he doesn't accept help. You will grow more resentful of being trapped in this relationship, and inevitably take out your frustrations on him. Probably end up having an affair. The children will get older, and more aware of your relationship. They'll notice how dysfunctional it is, and they will go on to grow up thinking that this is a normal relationship and have one very much like it themselves. Is it worth it? When in the long run it will only end up doing more damage than good? There's only so long you'll be able to keep up the happy family act before one of you crack.

You say your children love your family unit.

But what they love is not real, it is an image the two of you are working hard to create, but the cracks are showing! You argue more, you dont desire eachother, you are not a couple, but co-parents.

It seems to me you have been working hard at your relationship since the beginning, and now that he seems unwilling to keep up the good work, it is falling apart.

I think you know in your heart where this is heading. But please do not start any new relationships before you have ended your current one in a dignified manner. Starting affairs for whatever reason will make the situation so much worse. If this guy is worth it, he will wait for however long it takes.

Can you get to the bottom of why he won't take the anti depressants? I think he has had a lot to deal with and may be carrying this into your relationship.

I was afraid to take them - fear of losing control, admitting I had mental health problems, how would I know when it was me or the tablets, sleeping all the time, and that total buzzed emotionless blur that life was the first 2 months I did take them. I felt dead, uncaring and dead. Can you both look into ways to tackle his depression differently? CBT for example?

Unfortunately when my dp had depression life just became all about that and nothing else, it is all consuming in some men, and he may not even realize his behaviour.

If you can talk calmly to him and you have a friendship, could you tell him your thoughts in more detail? That you have been thinking about leaving, that you are not happy? It might snap him into action of sorts?

Thanks for your comments.

I have tried to galvanise our relationship. I told him that I was unhappy, that this wasn't enough for me, and that I had thoughts of leaving. This was about 2 months ago. As he was depressed at the time he said he didn't want to break up but wouldn't stand in my way. In other words he wouldn't fight for it. Eventually we agreed a course of action, none of which he has followed through on.

At the moment he is full of Christmas cheer. He is trying I think to be more affectionate towards me. I want to want it but fear it's too late. How do I get back into it again? I don't want to break up my family, it's so selfish.

I dont think you are the selfish one in this.

Binfull-I think he will take the ADs when he has his next episode. Why not before I'm unsure. He is not worried about the mental health stigma, we move in fairly academic circles where such things A's depression and therapy are spoken of openly and without repercussion.

Is your relationship in general quite one sided? It seems to me it is a lot about HIM. HIS coping after leaving his ex, HIS current depression and you not being supportive enough. HIM withholding love and affection, and not really bother even though you have spoken about it. Does he thrive on being in the midst of some emotional drama?

You should leave. you are still so young and as the years go by you will grow to hate him. children benefit from happy parents, not fake happy parents.

I suspect he might be reluctant to take the ADs because he has experienced addiction in his ex-wife.

I am not so sure you should throw in the towel just yet. It sounds like there are many, many good things about your relationship.

If you leave, you won't necessarily find a better relationship. In fact, you might end up with one very much worse. Or no relationship at all, for that matter.

Have you thought about Relate?

We tried relate about 5 years ago, it was ok. It was a good space to air the issues but nothing changed. Recently I have been seeing a counsellor on my own which has been a massive relief to unburden myself but am no clearer to a resolution.

In response to an earlier post, yes our relationship has mainly been about his issues but I haven't really got any (well no more than the average person anyway).

Providing the depression gets under control, I foresee a life in which i can throw myself mentally back into this relationship and be pretty content and non-guilty because I won't have broken up the family. The downside is which I am not sexually attracted to my partner and will be likely to spend my retirement looking after an old man (I know that sounds selfish).

ADs aren't a quick fix and wont perk him up next time he's down - they don't work like that. You need to take them for several weeks before they start to work so he really needs to take them now, BEFORE he gets into another period of worse depression. If he's not willing to take them then it appears he is not willing to address a major issue that is affecting your relationship and your family. You perhaps need to spell this out to him. It is very difficult accepting help but if he is a good father surely he would do it for the sake of his family? Tell him you NEED him to fight for you and his family. If he can't or wont then you are not being unreasonable in wanting to leave, because as it is the relationship will only make you more and more unhappy and will have a negative impact on your kids. I hope it all works out for you.

It's hard, hey, and although we can all chip in with our opinions and advice you're the one who'se going to have to make the decision.

You seem to have a lot of good going (as well as bad), so which is more important? If you had been happy together before, you might be again. I would also be careful about the other guy, it always seems rosier when things are tough but relationships are hard sometimes, even good ones.

I struggle with depression and one of the symptoms is passivity, not wanting to make decisions. So maybe he's saying he wouldn't stop you from leaving because he's physically unable to make decisions. Can't he see a psychiatrist?
Good luck!

It's so hard, I guess relationships are never perfect. If we can learn to be kind to each other again that wi be a big step. I wish I wanted it more. I fantasise about leaving all the time. At the moment I would be relieved if he had an affair and fell for someone else (he won't though). I wish I still fancied him, it would make a real difference, could put up with the other issues I think if that were the case.

Did you have any part in the break up of his marriage? If so, I say what goes around comes around.
Did the fact that he effectively had you and his wife on the go at beginning of relationship tell you that this guy was/is a bit flaky?
Because he is flaky; extremely so.
If you were seeing him at the same time he was wed, you're no great shakes on the moral side yourself so talk yourself into justifying leaving him to yourself and get together with this other guy. You know you want to really, and I strongly suspect you are looking for the go ahead to do so.
Up to you, really.

You see to me it is like this: nobody who is a 'sticker' in relationships gets involved with a married person in the first place so it seems obvious to me that you will have no real problem with leaving this guy, so why all the hand-wringing? Is it because you feel you must go through all this so people will think that you are a 'good' person?
If I am honest, I just find it irritating.

Am not looking for the go ahead and wasn't part of his marriage dissolution. I just want to be able to be happy again!

The 'hand wringing' is because I have children and because the situation could be a lot worse. I said I got together with him after his marriage had broken down ( due to her substance abuse issues). Sorry to bore you.

Unless he and his wife had been divorced and it was all 'done and dusted' before you got together, I think it is naive of you to say you were not part of his marriage break up; sorry but of course you were.
If you have children, neither you or he is abusive, he is a good dad and you get on reasonably well, then I suppose you must stay together if the children's happiness is paramount to you.
Because staying together will make (or keep) them happy.
If your happiness is paramount, then you must leave him. Simple really.

Wow, that seems unfair. And unrealistic. And completely unhelpful.

Marantha - you seem to know more about the OP's marriage, her partner and indeed everything else than she does.

Do enlighten us on the matter. Are you gazing into a crystal ball?

Do pray enlighten us as to how you can know so much about a complete stranger based on a few words on an internet forum?

Marantha - I'm not sure things are that black and white, or maybe they are and I should just get my head down and get on with it.

Fwiw I did not see a moral issue with getting together with a man who was separated rather than divorced. It did cause other issues certainly but I didn't feel I was doing anything wrong on that score.

Tadpoles/omalittle - thanks for not making judgements on me.

I think you need to think very carefully about YOUR needs in the middle of all this. How will you feel if you wake up in 5 or 10 years time in the same relationship (i.e. nothing has changed). Will you be pleased you held it together or will you feel cheated?

FWIW I spent years holding it together while trying to make things work in my marriage. I can absolutely identify the point at which things started to go wrong but things really started to deteriorate in 2003. I worked at it, saw counsellors on my own, with my DH, you name it I tried it. I absolutely believed that he was committed to the relationship and that I had to do everything I could to make things work for the benefit of our DCs. I strongly believe that separation is only ever a least worst option where DCs are involved.

However, nothing worked and eventually he admitted he didn't actually want to be with me and we separated in the summer of 2009. Now I wonder what the hell I thought I was doing for all those years. By the time we separated, I was exhausted and had largely lost myself. On top of that I had 3 very distressed DCs to support. One of the very hardest things to deal with is the fact that I knew things weren't right but kept convincing myself that they could be better.

If I had my time again, I would have left years ago. It would have been easier on me and on the DCs. One of my big sadnesses is that the DCs will only really remember our relationship as it was gradually falling apart. They are distressed about what has happened but they have also shocked me with their perception about our relationship (13 and 11 yo, 6 yo is just furious).

I would suggest you have a good look at your relationship, what you would like it to be. Has it ever been like that and, if so, can you work to get it back on track. If not, it is okay to put your needs higher. Sometimes it is enough to say 'This does not work for me'. Be really honest with yourself first. Then you can start to work out what you really want rather than go round in the sort of circles you are at the moment (I want to leave but can't do that to the DCs, but can't stay etc).

Secret skill - that is very thoughtful and perceptive advice, thank you.

I don't think that our relationship was ever what it should or could have been (even at it's height after my first child was born I later found out that dp was not at that point divorced, though he told me he was). So that has slightly marred that special time.

I do feel like now 'could' be the point at which I could probably have a more honest and trusting relationship but I fear it's too late (for me). I love him but am no longer in love with him. What I have to decide is whether to try to continue to work at that, or just live with it, afterall when things are good I am fairly content. Or give myself the more selfish option of starting out again with someone else. I guess there is no rush to make the decision.