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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

swinger issue

40 replies

violetblue · 29/09/2005 14:37

I would really like to get some advise. I hope this isnt to much detail. Firstly some background information.

My partner and I have been together a very long time we are married with a child. We have had rocky patches in our marriage at 1 point involved me having met someone else and calling it all off with my dh and it devestated him at the time so I did the right thing and got back with him during that time he also confessed to having a 1 night stand and at the time I didnt care. It was a bad patch we got through it.

Anyway we got back together and we have remained together we are VERY close in that we talk openly most of the time but things have never been quite the same since that period.

The reason I drifted was because of his work and his extremely long hours and I felt that I was raising our child on my own. When we got back together he promised me he would change and he did for a while but then he got back into his old job and it went back to how it used to be ie. long working hours.

So I have been chatting on chat rooms to men as I feel lonely and it passes the time. I spend weeks alone from morning until late at night and sometimes he goes away abroad for work and I am completely alone. I have talked to him about it as I am feeling that I am not sure I want to go on like this with someone who spends so much time away from us and doesnt seem to compromise. I also feel sad for our child who barely sees him.

He is not having an affair and it is genuinely work I worked in the same industry and understand the hours that he has to do because of that.

Many times we have been on the verge of split but then he will say but I love you and he wont let go and so it goes on.

Anyway things have gone on like this and Ive continued flirting with guys on a chat room although nothing serious has come of it apart from sometimes I get close to someone. My partner knows about this and is often aware when I am getting close to somebody and naturally he hates it. It has become an issue but he wont compromise his job so I said I wont compromise either. This is putting strain on us.

BUT the even bigger issue here though is our sex life.

My dh has always been into 'dirty sex' (probably not the best description but only way I can think of wording it) as opposed to 'love making'. Its not usually a problem I am pretty sexual and no prude and we have fantasised during our sex sessions (who doesnt) but lately though during our sex sessions he has gone on and on about me having sex with other men. He keeps on saying I want you to and goes into graphic detail about what he would like to see me doing with male/female but usually always its guys.

Whilst at 1st it was a bit of fun its now become something I am detesting during every sex session.

It suddenly dawned on me too we never have loving sex. Its always like this. This fantasy happens without fail everytime now. I am bored of 'porn star' sex but it seems to be the only way. I am starting to feel I want someone to hold me and love me. I am sick of being a sex object. The only compliments I get are how gorgeous/sexy I am. He goes on about guys looking at me it gives him a thrill. He goes on about my breasts my bottom all the time. Everytime he is near me he will touch and grope and I am detesting it lately. Im quite a deep person and whilst I like to look and feel good like most women, I also need more than that.

Anyway I have played along with these fantasies everytime but secretly am starting to hate it all and hate what we have become.

The real crunch came when on his 1 day off in ages we spent the day together and he said he wanted to take me out but then said dress up sexy and spoilt it by saying I should flirt with men when they look at me and catch my eye etc. I said nothing and did nothing, it played on my mind. We had a our meal and then came home and as soon as we got in he went online and when I asked him what he was doing and I looked over his shoulder he was looking at swinger sites and logging in our details.

I was shocked but I didnt show it. I said to him is that what you really want. (In my head I was thinking to myself is this what we have become) He said yes I want to see you and other men. Lets meet a couple or something or a guy or woman. Whilst I dont knock swinging if its all loving and trusting etc. I feel this is sordid, that he is suddenly looking at this now. He used to be a very 1 woman man and very jealous of me being looked at by other guys.

I am not sure why my dh who was so jealous and possessive over me suddenly feels he could watch me having sex with other men/women and wants me to openly flirt with them.

So I played along and I realised he was serious. I guess I fell quiet so I then took myself upstairs away. I just felt really really low.

Lots of things went through my head. I felt what a mess. I feel to blame because of the chats with these men online and I think he has got screwed up by it. I feel I am too flirty and sexual. I feel that because I am like that he can now only see me in that way. I feel he cant respect me anymore. I feel I dont repsect him and actually I dont like him anymore. I feel it is all wrong and I want to rip it up and throw it away.

I hate this now. I want to be with a loving man who cares about me and wants to look after us not watch me get done by other guys.

Anyway I was lying on the bed upstairs and he came up and lay next to me and I hoped he was going to say something to make it right but instead he said how sexy I am how I turn him on the usual stuff and I just rolled over sobbed inside and went to sleep. He must have felt it because then he said are you upset with me do you hate me now I and just thought yes I do.

I am very very down about all this and havent been myself lately does anybody have anything to say about htis.

OP posts:
tiredemma · 29/09/2005 14:43

sorry for you, he sounds awful. sorry i have no advice.

spacedonkey · 29/09/2005 14:45

What an awful situation for you

Can you talk to your partner about how you feel? Do you want to leave him?

violetblue · 29/09/2005 14:46

I think it is all hopeless I wanted to hear what others thought whether it was just me.

OP posts:
doormat · 29/09/2005 14:47

Be truthful with him and tell him exactly how you feel about the whole job lot.

spacedonkey · 29/09/2005 14:48

There's no absolute judgement to be made about it - if it's something you both want to do, and you both enjoy, there's nothing wrong with it. But you aren't happy with this, so either you need to talk to your partner about it, or you need to get yourself out of this situation. I'm so sorry, you sound so unhappy

madmarchhare · 29/09/2005 14:48

Definately not just you. If everyones happy then its not an issue, but if you are unhappy, which you clearly are, then it is unacceptable.

You need to tell him exactly how you feel.

BROWNY · 29/09/2005 14:50

Hi Violetblue,

Surely, if he loves you, really loves you, he wouldn't want to you to do anything that would upset you - it looks like he's just after satisfying his own fantasies and doesn't give a jot about yours!! Sorry, maybe someone can you give more advice - hope you work it out!

anorak · 29/09/2005 14:52

violetblue, you sound so so sad, I do feel for you. Yes, you have flirted and found that it confused the issue for you and upset your dh, I personally think that that kind of flirting is unhealthy, which is what you are discovering.

You sound to me like someone with a huge void of loneliness inside them which in the past you have filled in a temporary way with your husband's 'dirty sex' as you describe it and your fantasy life.

But now you are reaching a more mature emotional understanding of your needs and know that only real intimacy and love is going to satisfy you.

Are you sure your husband really wants to swing? Perhaps he senses the change in you and wrongly thought that it was what you wanted? Perhaps he thought you were looking elsewhere and that at least if you did this thing together he would not lose you?

You two need to communicate. Lots of men cannot express their emotions and confuse love and sex. They feel that the sex should show that they love you. Such men need to be educated in tapping in to their own emotions so that they can share them better with you - talking, kissing and cuddling, doing lots of things together, just sharing. If your dh is willing to seek help from a counsellor or therapist of some kind he may find he can learn to express his emotions in a way that is more fulfilling of your needs.

I fear that if he fails to do this he is going to lose you, because your need for emotional intimacy sounds very acute.

violetblue · 29/09/2005 14:53

Thanks for replying all I am taking it all in and I would also appreciate any mens views on this if there are any on here.

OP posts:
Marina · 29/09/2005 14:55

anorak, what a smashing post
I hope everyone's responses here help you a bit violetblue, you sound in such need of some solidarity and TLC
There are male mumsnetters but few and far between, and I think more often around in the evenings.

fairyfly · 29/09/2005 14:56

Also perhaps building a life for yourself and finding other ways to fulfil your needs and prevent you from feeling lonely will help. It sounds to me like you are both lost and the only way you can think of entertaining yourselves or feeling high is through sex.

BROWNY · 29/09/2005 14:56

I agree with you Marina, very well put Anorak!!

violetblue · 29/09/2005 14:57

anorak I have to thankyou for that because what you said made so much sense you were absolutely right about me I am very sad and there is a huge void everything you said seemed so spot on. amazing.

OP posts:
madmarchhare · 29/09/2005 14:57

Do you have friends and family close by?

violetblue · 29/09/2005 14:59

I do madmarchhare but there is no I will tell them about this new twist.

OP posts:
anorak · 29/09/2005 15:05

Thank you everyone! I do understand this situation as I had a problem like this myself when I was younger. I used to feel very empty due to a bad childhood which was very good training for me to choose men who were oblivious to my needs. You give until there is nothing left and no one fills the emptiness for you.

People in this situation often get a temporary 'feeling of fullness' from sex, over-eating, drinking or taking drugs.

Personally I had a course of psychotherapy which helped me understand how I was driven to the choices I made and how my choices affected me. I made my mind up there and then not to go out with or sleep with any more men until I met one who would treat me properly. Within 6 months of this decision, I met my dh who is kind and loving and everything I didn't know I could hope for.

Eaney · 29/09/2005 15:09

Perhaps it's still a fantasy to him. It's one thing logging onto a site and another actually doing it. Could it be a midlife crisis for him?

If it is for real and you are unhappy with the idea, don't do it. If you do it will haunt you and may well spell the end for your relationship. I'm afraid you will have to speak to him otherwise it won't go away. What kind of chatrooms have you been using? It's a fair point A made about him taking the lead from you.

violetblue · 29/09/2005 15:10

anorak I had a very unhappy childhood one that has affected me deeply. I have a big need to feel wanted I do use my attractiveness for that soul purpose to get that attention I need but its left me feeling empty just like you said.

OP posts:
anorak · 29/09/2005 15:13

I would highly recommend psychotherapy to you as a means to recover from the lasting effects of the past.

It worked wonders for me, changed my whole life. My only regret was that I didn't do it years before.

As for your dh, it sounds to me as if he does love you and is frightened you will leave him if he doesn't spice things up a bit. He just has the wrong end of the stick - I hope so anyway.

violetblue · 29/09/2005 15:14

eaney they are not 'adult chat' but I have posted pictures and got huge response from guys and I have probably wasted a good few years in a fantasy chat world. I just dont want to do any of it anymore. The thing is I want to be with someone who doesnt make me feel I have to do that.

OP posts:
violetblue · 29/09/2005 15:20

If he really loved me wouldnt he see how unhappy I am and just hold me and tell me he loved me and stop working so much to spend more time with me. I mean is it not that clear. Would you really think that the way forward is to suggest sex with others?

OP posts:
anorak · 29/09/2005 15:30

No I certainly think the swinging is a very bad idea. But it doesn't mean your husband doesn't love you. Not if he for some reason thinks it's what you want, he might not really want to do it himself but just suggested it in despair to try and avoid losing you.

If he still wants you to do it once he knows you're against it then I agree, that's not loving at all.

anorak · 29/09/2005 15:32

I don't think the fact that he can't see how unhappy you are means he doesn't love you. We don't all become experts in attuning to other peoples' feelings just because we love them. Given that he sounds as if he has difficulty with emotional issues, why should it be surprising that he doesn't understand how bad you feel and why?

HappyDaddy · 29/09/2005 16:39

Man's point of view here. Probably not very helpful though. Does he work a lot because he has to as part of his job or because he wants to?

I do see something of a double standard here. You flirt with guys online but don't like your dh being sexual with you? He probably is confused, I know I would be. Perhaps he thinks that, because you enjoy the flirting, you are thinking of the same fantasies as him?
Us men are rubbish at talking about important stuff, we tend to try and guess what the problem is. That's why we assume everything boils down to sex!! You need to talk to him properly, don't beat around the bush, men need to be told bluntly.

Tortington · 29/09/2005 17:24

i agree with happy daddy in that you need to have a no bullshit conversation.

at the end of it all you should seriously consider respect as a major factor both for yourself and for your husband.

if you have told him his possessiveness was a problemwell perhaps he is trying to get over it by introducing these things which he thinks you like becuase you "virtual" fck online.

you need to set some bounderies. most people have them - sexual bounderies i mean. i know i wont go through with anything i am not happy with - i dont see why anyone should.

if you dont respect you - no one else will.