Is it DD then?? :-(

[CupofCoffeeandaPacketofCrisps]

I have two dd's aged 13 and 15. My sister has always seemed to have it in for DD2 saying she's manipulative and a attention seeker. We had it out and she said she wasnt the only one in the family that felt that way and that I should open my eyes. Naturally I told her where to go and got on with my life. Then last year I met a man who I got on with really well but that started to go pear shaped when he started being quite nasty to DD2 and saying the same kind of things as my sister. He started saying she was "clingy" and an attention seeker and that he didn't think he could cope with her long term.
For what its worth, she's never in trouble at school, never usually in trouble at home so I'm really struggling to see what the hell is going on. I told him where to go and decided I would just stay with me and the girls until they were older. DD1 always made out to me that she couldn't see the problem either and that it wasn't just me who was "Blinded". Anyway I've just seen this in DD1's room and I think its meant to be for her dad.

"got to get this off my chest cos I think Im going to explode otherwise. My sister is doing my head in so much I honestly cant wait until I can leave home and Im going as soon as I leave school because my mum just doesnt see anything wrong with her even when shes told by everyone she meets what shes like. Shes a hypocondriac, attention seeker, whinger, she ruined our last holiday by constantly whining and wanting her own way and its because of her that we're not going abroad next year. Everything gets revolved around her and all she does is whinge and whine and moan and complain. Shes got no personality of her own, just constantly copies off other people, their clothes and hair and music and even the way they talk and she clings to my mum like a disease. I just cant stand her :-( Can't you do something, even you said yourself that she can be hard work"

So what do I do now? accept that nobody likes DD2 even though I honestly can't understand why or what?

If more than one person independantly tells you exactly the same thing you have to think about whether it may be true.

It's very odd that you can't see any of this behaviour and that your DD1 feels compelled to lie to you about agreeing with you.

Honestly how can you not notice any of this stuff that your DD1 describes? Did your daughter ruin the holiday? What is the reason you are not going abroad again with her?

Perhaps time to take a step back and really consider how DD2 behaves.

Oh dear CupofCoffee, I'd have to agree with msboogie, if a few people independently say exactly the same thing then you have to start thinking there's some truth in it.

My sister was a bit like your DD and still is. I think my mother could see what she was like to a certain extent but at the same time I think she was blind to what a lot of people knew about her. She made my life and my younger sister's life hell (and I mean HELL) when we were teenagers, deliberately trying to get on our nerves, taking our stuff and damaging it, being critical and picky all the time. I used to wonder why my mother didn't just stop her, but I think, like I say she was sort of blind to it, impossible though that seemed to me at the time.

My older sister seemed to get away with ridiculous stuff that my mother would never let me or my younger sister even try. Let me give you an example. I had a room to myself and she and my younger sister shared a room (due to complicated circumstances). When I moved out my younger sister moved into my room and my older sister kept the very large other bedroom. Then my older sister moved out and yet she insisted that the large bedroom was still hers and made my little sister move out of it every time she came home for the weekend! So my poor younger sister had to stay squashed into the tiny box room despite the fact that the large room was empty! My mum didn't see anything wrong with this while the rest of us were completely shocked. This went on for over two years until older sister moved back home again and once again claimed the large room for herself. Incidentally any time I went home after I moved out I had to squash into the box room or sleep on the floor. There was no way I was allowed to keep possession of my own space in the house and I considered that fair.

You need to think carefully about how you treat your two daughters. Is there behaviour that you let DD2 get away with while you wouldn't allow it for DD1? Does tension build when DD2 is in a room (my sister is like a cloud of tension, as you never know when she is going to blow up at you) or does she say things that are rude and manipulative under the guise of being upset or sick? Chances are your own strong love for her might be blinding you to unacceptable behaviour. She could also be very successfully hiding her behaviour from you. My sister has treated me like shit down the years but I've said very little about it to my mother as I feel it's pointless. Your DD1 might be feeling the same way.

I just don't think she's as bad as everyone is making her out to be. I can see the hypocondriac thing because that annoys me too, if there is an illness that exists, DD2 will have it and it does get tiring but alot of kids play on illness. I know I used to.
The holiday last year wasn't spoilt by DD2, it was just a combination of everything. There wasn't much there for her to do, DD1 felt that DD2 should have gone to some kind of teen club so me and her could have time alone, DD2 didn't want to etc etc. The reason we're not going on holiday next year is because it was such a disaster last year.

Is DD2 very possessive of you? (just guessing this from the teen club suggestion). My older sister is very very possessive of my mother and acts like she has exclusive rights to her and must protect her at all costs. During the entire 9 months of my pregnancy the only text I've gotten from her is to attack me for something I said to my mum, which was none of her business. It could be that there are a lot of small things that build up over time. Incidentally, my DH totally agrees with me about my sister and really really dislikes her, and everyone who met her at my wedding thought she was an utter bitch so it's not just me that thinks this way about her. If you asked my mum however I doubt she'd have a bad word to say about her.

So it could be that you are letting one that causes trouble dictate the terms of your family.

You need to have a frank, but calm conversation with your family, and you need to listen.

Perhaps you are being a little biased and letting your 'baby' call the shots.

Hard questions but...Do you secretly prefer DD2? Would you let DD1 monopolise your attention? And do you allow her to play on illness? Offer sympathy and pander etc?

Its her age, a lot of people are like that at thirteen. It is not the way she is, it is the way she is right now. Just don't trap her in that behaviour by telling her that that is who she is. She just needs to grow up a bit.

Not really, she fell off a horse on Sunday and she has played on that a little bit. It was quite a nasty fall but as soon as we told DD1 she rolled her eyes and said "suppose we'll be hearing about it until after christmas then" which is so unlike her. As it happened, when DD2 came home from school on Monday someone had suggested that her ribs could be broken and DD2 did try to play on that, came home fake coughing and then creasing in agony etc and I did tell her to stop playing on it. (She's fine now).

I wouln't have liked to have been stuck in a holiday club abroad either tbh.

There is a bit of atmosphere when she's in the room but I think that's down to the growing tension between the two of them. Almost as soon as DD2 walks in the room, DD1 rolls her eyes and walks out. So how can I be sure it's not DD1 causing the tension? I just don't know.

It sounds like you really need to take an objective look at the family dynamic because if you are wrong and everyone else is right you risk alientating the older daughter along with everyone else.

From the little you have said here your DD does sound manipulative and attentions seeking.

Another incident was about the water from the taps believe it or not. A few months ago DD2 went on a residential trip in the midlands. We're from yorkshire. She came back and didn't mention anything about the water. But then one of her friends commented that the water was so much better in the Midlands than it was here so from that day, DD2 decided she simply could not drink water from yorkshire anymore because it was disgusting compared to the water in the midlands. Now every opportunity she gets, she mentions that she can't drink yorkshire water, only midlands water. I'm assuming this is what DD1 means about her being ruled by her friends.

Why msboogie? is there a specific incident or reason because I'm really struggling with this. To me, she's just a normal 13 year old.

I'd find the water thing really affected and annoying tbh.

To answer your question over doubts about which DD is causing the issue, I'd have to say that if people have only ever commented on your DD2's behaviour, it's unlikely to be DD1 creating the drama.

She certainly sounds like she is attention seeking.

Perhaps you ought to talk to her and tell her that this is generating the wrong kind of attention. Try and gently explain that if she carries on with the oohing and ahhing, crying wolf etc, then people will lose all sympathy for her and it'll have the opposite effect to what she needs.

Her esteem seems fragile, she needs constant attention and help, sympathy etc. You need to teach her to stand on her own two feet, stop following and start leading in a positive way.

I'd be inclined to agree with you on the DD1 eye rolling at DD2 being just a teenage sisters thing, but DD1 is not the only one that has said something. Everyone else is saying there is a problem. So then there IS a problem.

You need to take some time and spend it with DD1 and see what she has to say and how you could do things differently to make things better in general. You need to give DD2 the tools to withstand her adjustment to not having to be a PITA to get attention.

My sister was 13 when I was 15, we never, ever had a teen club thing, and why on earth would she want to be shoved off into that? If you get her to communicate better and feel a more reasonable member of your family, then you really ought to do family holiday stuff AS a family.

Not saying that this is right, I am 42, things were different back then...

My dad'd have given me a clip around the ear if I'd have tried that Water shite!

You need to explain to DD2 that she needs to think what she can give to the family not what she can take, then she will feel more closely knit and included.

sorry to answer with a book rec, but I've just finished re-reading Siblings without Rivalry and am feeling all evangelical.

It talks about how to deal with that kind of dynamics, and how often what emerged was the complete opposite from what it seemed i.e.
maybe DD2 does all this attention seeking because she feels insecure and thinks that you really love DD1 best etc
just talking off the top of my head here, but the book gave some good ideas

Maybe your DD1 was suggesting a teen club for DD2 because she was being annoying, rather than being annoyed you didn't put her into a teen club.

Clearly your DD2 takes up more of your attention than her fair share. Is there some stuff that you and DD1 can do together, just the two of you?

Could you tell her what you've read? Was it left out where it could be seen easily?

to answer your question, from the the playing on illness and hypochondria - sounds like she wants to be the centre of attention and from what her older sister says.

The water thing might be annoying and yes it is the kind of thing an impressionable young teenager might do but like everyone says, it's not just your DD1 who says these things of her.

Actually, I think DD2 sounds incredibly insecure. She knows that people think this of her, of course she does. I think that this is what is fuelling her behaviour. She doesn't sound happy, and sounds quite needy of the approval of her friends.

However, it's not your job to protect her, it's your job to help her change her behaviour. I think you need to help her build up her confidence to be ok without you, and praise her to the hilt everytime she 'copes' with something without whining or does something independently.

Well done for putting her first wrt your previous relationship. This says a lot about what a good mother you are.

Now you need to book a foreign holiday; to not go sends out two negative messages- one to DD1 that she has to miss out because of DD2; and one to DD2 that she is unable to cope with going abroad. Book the holiday and plan with both DDs (particularly DD2) how she is going to be independent.

You need to also talk with her about coping strategies for when things don't go her way. Plan ahead. Be VERY firm, don't back down, and praise her for dealing with stuff she doesn't like. Praise DD1 for her behaviour, but don't compare them or hold DD1's behaviour up as an example for DD2. They are different people.

Make time for you and DD1. I'm sure the letter you found was not her true feelings, but simply an outlet for her frustration that she doesn't want to say to you or her sister because she loves you both too much. She sounds great, and is testament to the fact that you have great skills as a parent. Time to use them more. Good luck

I could have wrote what your DD1 has word for word, when I was her age, about my own sister.

We have a two year age gap also and I am the eldest....30 years on we no longer have contact.

This wasn't due to any complicated reasons but simply because of my sister's behaviour, she loves negative drama, she loves the attention drama gets her, this finally became intolerable and for my own sanity I had to back away.

Please have a long hard look at how DD2 behaves and how you parent her....don't let your DD's become me and my sister.

Can you talk to their father about it? After you, he is presumably the person who knows them best and he loves them too (I expect). If he is admitting to DD1 that DD" is "hard work" he may have some good ideas on how to tackle. it.

If you don't, then as well as family life getting more difficult, the siblings may not recover a good relationship for the future. This is what has happened to my DH, whose very demanding, difficult (and favoured)sister is no longer a part of his life.

Sorry, DD2 not DD"

You identify with her a lot don't you?

'alot of kids play on illness. I know I used to'
'I wouln't have liked to have been stuck in a holiday club abroad either tbh'

You excuse all the behaviours that irritate other people, because you would like to be able to get away with them too...

I can see it from both sides - I can't post why, but might namechange a bit later and post.

Campergirls is right, I think. You do sound as if you identify with her. Have you spoken with your ex about the situation? What is his take on it?