For the past year I've thought about someone else. He's why (long, sorry).

[JustNotThatIntoMe]

I will try to paraphrase much of this because there's so much to say I don't know where to start.

Background: DH and been together 20 years, married 13. Two DCS, age 3 and 18 months.

We met when we both worked in high powered creative jobs. We earned decent money, had a great lifestyle. I fancied the pants off him.
I couldn't believe my luck when I bagged the office 'hottie' and when he quickly confessed he was falling for me. It was all so easy. He was The One.

Gradually, as the honeymoon period wore off, I started to see he did have flaws (as do we all). He can be very moody. Extremely stubborn. Selfish. Critical. Patronising in the extreme. But I was so into other aspects of him (his gorgeous rock star looks, his rebellious personality, his intelligence, his morals, his love for me) I didn't really care back then.

Fast forward a few years. We'd set the date for our wedding but the alarm bells were ringing. (He can be very controlling - he dictated what kind of wedding it was going to be because he wasn't that bothered about marriage, so therefore we had to do it his way. No guests. No fuss. It was a huge effort to cajole him along.) Then I got diagnosed with cancer. He was my rock. He was amazing. Suddenly, all the stuff I'd worried about didn't seem to matter. I didn't care what kind of wedding we had. So we slid off and married without telling anyone and at the time I couldn't have been happier.

Fast forward again. Once I got the all clear a few years down the track I started thinking about kids. It didn't happen. He couldn't take having his masculinity questioned. It was easier to blame me. My confidence in myself, my femininity and my body was slipping further and further away. It killed our sex life, although to be honest apart from the early days it was never great. But I was obsessed with babies. I cajoled him into IVF. I kept miscarrying. We decided enough was enough and discussed divorce but decided without the pressure of trying for a baby perhaps we could save our relationship.

Six weeks later I found out I was pregnant. Emotionally reeling but I didn't miscarry and I went on to have a healthy baby. I struggled in the early weeks. One night, when the baby was crying, he blew up at me and hit me with the bombshell: he was sick of being the carer, the one in the support role, the focus always being on me and my health, always waiting for things to get better but they never did. Every day he fantasised about leaving me.

At that point I fell apart and was diagnosed with PND.

Fast forward again. I got better. We wobbled along but I never really recovered from what he said to me. I felt self conscious on the rare occasions he'd touch me - it was pretty much only if he wanted sex and often if when he was drunk.

We had our one and only night away since the baby was born and we both relaxed and laughed in each other's company like we hadn't done in years. We had what was probably the most fantastic sex we've ever had.

I discovered I was pregnant again.

We had two babies under 18 months old. We moved to be nearer my family for support. He was seething with resentment. The traits in him that I didn't like got much worse - always criticising, talking down to me, making me feel like something he'd stepped in simply for being in the same room. After months of walking on eggshells I snapped. I told him I was done with him talking to me like that. I said being single couldn't possibly be any worse than being made to feel the way I did each day.

It shocked him into changing. He finally agreed to Relate. He admitted his behaviour had been terrible. He stopped being so negative and critical. He confessed he doesn't feel the same about me since I lost my drive and walked away from a well paid career. The counsellor said there is so much resentment on both sides we have built up a massive brick wall between us. But, as she put it, we're fighters. We wobbled along for a bit more.

Now the bit I've posted about a couple of other times. In the midst of all this someone from my past made contact with me. Someone I'd always had a soft spot for but admittedly not really thought much about, until now. We quickly moved from friendly chat to flirty emails and phone calls. We met once, for a coffee. He was just as lovely as I remembered and we had so much more in common than either of us could have imagined. I could see I was falling for him and he told me he'd been searching for two years since his wife left and now here was someone he finally clicked with and he couldn't have because I was married. So I stopped contact. He initiated contact with me a couple more times but basically ended up, I think, getting bored, and eventually, once my head was well and truly turned, he simply stopped replying to my messages.

I'm ashamed to say this all happened in the first part of the year and yet even though he basically ended up shitting on me from a great height I STILL think about him all the time.

So much so I eventually confessed it all to my DH. He knew we'd met and says he'd suspected something was up, but he was amazingly understanding. He said he couldn't be the husband I need and no longer is in love with me, so could totally see why I would have fallen for someone else making a play for me. As long as nothing physical had happened (it hadn't) he was cool with it and he thought we should just move on and forget it, and hope things between us improve in the future.

Whilst it was good of him to be so understanding, my gut feeling is that he found it a bit TOO easy to forgive and forget. Basically, it seems to me that he doesn't care enough as long as I haven't actually walked out or shagged someone else.

So that's where I am. I'm sorry this is so long but I got a pasting when I gave the much abbreviated version and I realise I was being a complete arse in that I was making out I was the helpless victim here.

I'm not looking for sympathy. I know I did wrong and I know I am responsible for getting emotionally tangled up with someone else. I also know it's not about wanting him, not really, it's about what's missing from my marriage and also what's going on in my head.

I guess I just want some help moving on and working out how I can sort myself out and how to stop something like this happening again. I know on many levels it makes sense for us to stay together - for the kids, financially, possibly for the two of us if we can ride this out, but all I know is that emotionally I have been totally absent this year and I am still thinking about the other man to a ridiculously unhealthy degree. I am a much more sexual being than I cared to think and the urge to go out and shag this man was so strong it was frightening. It was as if this emotional affair awakened this side of me that has been dormant for years.

Finally, the one thing I am going to say that I may well (and probably rightly) be given a bollocking for: I am frequently complimented on how I look and I try to take care of myself as much as I can with two small children and not much time or money. I feel my DH barely notices yet everyone else seems to, and, more than that, he seems to think it's ok to have turned into a very overweight, bearded slob (someone jokingly said he resembles the man from the mountains) in saggy jogging bottoms all the time. I know how gorgeous he can look with a decent haircut and some fresh clothes. But it's like the more I say stuff like that, the more he rebels in a 'fuck you' kind of way.

Oh, help.

If anyone is still reading, your opinions would be very much appreciated.

I realise, as I re-read this, that I have made so many massive mistakes over the years. This is not about trying to blame him. I know have been stupid and I should have taken control years ago.

It's about what I do and where we, or I, go from here. Thanks.

I don't know what to say. My own marriage is far from perfect at the moment. You've obviously been through a hell of a lot - perhaps counselling, individually, then together is worth a try. Whatever happens I wish you the very best of luck.

Sounds like you relish swinging from one drama to the next. Your run down of events sounds like a trashy novel.

I think your DH is well and truly worn out by your constant need for breathless sensationalism. But I think you will get bored of him and move on if he doesnt change. So its up to him whether he can keep up with you and your needs or whether he is willing to let you go and find someone who can.

Just, you are smart, strong and brilliant. It sounds as though you need a bit of help to catch up with yourself (so much of life has happened in the interim). It also sounds as though life has seriously go in the way of your relationship. Perhaps you and your DH would benefit from some counselling (either as individuals or as a couple).

You have both come through a lot. It is not in the least surprising that you have been overwhelmed. Yes it has been tough, but give it a chance and if you can get through the next bit, you have a chance of super sexy, super loving time for you both. Do not allow the OM to distract you from achieving true happiness, either for yourself and DCs or for yourself and your family.

Goodness. You two have been through a lot, haven't you?

I can see what your counsellor meant, though, you both went through that, and stayed together through it.

My instant response is that you should consider more counselling. You have so very much to talk about, and get through. I can seriously see why the pair of you would have built walls. And I know you said he blew up at you, all that time ago, and said he fantasised about leaving, but he didn't.

And you sound as though you have suffered assault after assault on your self-esteem, and sense of self, and your body - you must be buried under that.

Truly, i don't know if you can get through all of that as a couple. sometimes things really are too much. but it does sound as though some of the issues now are to do with history, and it might be that time and talk could get you through it. For some reason, it sounds as though you both want to, or did.

Maybe you don't want to any more? Why not? I know you say that he has said he doesn't feel the same about you after you gave up your career, but how do you feel? What do you feel about him, now? You don't describe him, really, as he is now, or what you want. How do you feel about your life, now? Who you are? And your dh and your relationship?

Sorry, there's so much in your post, that really is just a swift, quite cursory response, but I didn't want to just leave you.

"He said he couldn't be the husband I need and no longer is in love with me"

am I missing something? have you said somewhere else in the post that you and your dh have decided to stay together even though he no longer loves you?

I just wanted to say I know how it feels to be thinking of someone else all the time and knowing you can't have them. It's really horrible so I do empathise.

'He said he couldn't be the husband I need and no longer is in love with me, so could totally see why I would have fallen for someone else making a play for me.'

If he's saying he's no longer in love with you, do you really still want to be married to him? That's not nice to have to live with surely?

Can't be much fun for him either.

if it was me it would be a separation but i see you are intent on staying together so i can only suggest more counselling.

You say he's controlling but it sounds like you've been calling the shots in this relationship (cajoled into marriage, cajoled into babies) and he now just wants to get away.

So let him. For both of you. I can never understand the desire to cling on.

What comes across mainly is your anger at him.

Why are you angry?

Thanks very much for your replies - and for reading such a mammoth post. I realise it may come across as very self indulgent.

MrsLucs and Animula, I am also thinking we could do with more counselling. If DH doesn't agree I won't push it as my gut feeling tells me to back off with him right now, but I will perhaps book some sessions on my own.

I honestly don't know what I want any more. I just can't see what the right move is. I don't think it is fair of me to stay with my DH if I am preoccupied with thoughts of someone else all the time, though. I would be incredibly hurt if the shoe was on the other foot and I certainly wouldn't want to be under the same roof as him if he was doing this to me.

Equally, I think I can see where DH is coming from in that as the children get older and the dust settles on all the other stuff it will get easier and by default things might improve between us. I just happen to think we need to be more proactive in making it better, that's all. But I don't know where on earth to start.

Dione, thank you. I feel like I have been such a shit this year and I have made such a mess of things. I don't want to make more of a mess of it and I wish more than anything I could get this other man out of my head and start concentrating on me, my husband and my kids and the future. I know the constant thinking is utterly futile but I just don't seem to be able to stop.

Bibbity, I haven't said we've decided to stay together - we haven't decided anything. I told him what had happened, he gave me he reaction and now he's overseas on business and the whole thing has been brushed under the carpet. He just doesn't want to talk about it. I understand, of course. But I don't know what to do to address how I got here or how we move on, if we won't talk.

I don't know how I feel about life right now, other than I have good days and bad days about everything. I've considered whether I could be depressed again but I don't think I am. I definitely struggle with being at home with such young children. But it's not something I feel I can be too vocal about because it was such a struggle to have them. I know I need to make changes to help improve my self esteem - to perhaps start earning some money again, to maybe retrain, to have some other stuff in my life apart from raising the children - as if I am happier in myself I won't be so obsessed with looking for validation from elsewhere, whether it's from my husband or anyone else.

I do think about walking away. I don't want either of us stuck in a marriage that is making us miserable. But it has got better from a year ago, when it was dire. How it feels right now is that on a surface level it functions really quite well a lot of the time. We are friends and we communicate pretty well. He is a great dad, hands on. He can still really make me laugh. But we're so guarded emotionally with each other. It's all quite formal; there's no real closeness or intimacy. And we clearly don't desire each other sexually.

Perhaps counselling is the way forward. For me, at least.

Sorry, cross posted.

Why am I clinging on? I don't know. Because we have DCs. Because I am a coward. Because I don't like giving up on stuff. Because it might get better - I really don't know.

ipaddle I genuinely don't think he wants to get away or he would have gone. We both acknowledged in counselling that I am the driven one who pushes us along with things and he is the one who is happy to drift. I HAVE pushed him into marriage and babies, but he has told me over and again he is GLAD I did in restrospect.

Why am I angry at him? That's a very good question. I don't know. I'll have to give it some thought.

What was your parents' marriage like?

animula, interesting question: mum is very controlling and dominant, dad is very submissive and easy going. They were never particularly demonstrative or tactile and loving towards each other. Mum had little patience for us as kids. Their relationship was all very functional. They don't come across as particularly warm or loving towards each other, though they are very companionable. They are still married.

God, that sounds scarily familiar now I've written it down.

Counselling is really good for one thing and that is clarifying your feelings. It helps you get beyond the thoughts and behaviour to the feelings behind them. You sound like you could use that. Try counselling on your own. It should really help you to understand what has happened, where you are now, what you want next and how to make it happen.

Just, please get help, you need it and you deserve it.

jodiesmummy that was a bit harsh! From what i've read the poor woman's been through cancer, infertility, PND and a husband who admits he doesn't love her. To think that he confessed that bit when they'd just had a baby must have been an awful blow. They have both been through a lot in their 20 years together and it's taken it's toll.
OP I hope that writing it all down has been helpful for you. x

And how were they about your feelings, and demonstrations?

Maybe I am unrealistic but the moment I heard 'I'm not in love with you anymore' I would be out the door.

I think counselling has it's place but I honestly think this is about you and your sense of self. You really don't seem to see yourself as an autonomous being, you don't seem to know what you want/need to be happy. First it was marriage, then babies, and putting up with a controlling slob becuase....well, because why?

Having survived cancer, do you not have a sense of time being finite, of making every thing/day count? I know you can't live like it's your last every day, it gets to feel contrived, but you do have to grab happiness. There isn't even a plan here. After he told you he was no longer in love, after he calmly heard your confession, there ought to have been a huge dialogue, a resolution to end the marriage or work on repairing it.

There was nothing. It's odd.

Dione, I am going to talk to DH after Christmas (he is overseas at the moment) about counselling. I am quite happy to go alone and possibly it's the right way to do it anyway. Clarity would be the best and most useful thing I could gain right now.

Kissingfrogs, thanks - as I said I got a pasting on another thread for the way I came across so I did expect the odd harsh response here. But writing it all down has helped, although it's been very confronting and it's made me feel pretty emotional. I don't want next year to be a catalogue of mistakes (on my part) and bad judgements like I feel this one has been. Until I sort out where all this is coming from I guess it would be very easy to fuck it up. Well, even more than I already have.

perfumed, it is odd, you're right. i'm not blaming him, by the way. but you're right. I need a plan - we need a plan. But he won't discuss it and he thinks I over-analyse all the time.

I think solo counselling does have its place here because if it can help me understand why me self esteem seems to be virtually zero and what is is that i am chasing then it would be invaluable. I just seem to be stuck and I don't know how to get out.

Animula, my parents were not that demonstrative with us as kids, either. Mum especially was of the 'stiff upper lip' school of thought. She was not was you would describe as warm. She had a short fuse. We clashed terribly when I was a teenager. Can I ask what you are thinking about with this?

OK. Here;s a bunch of conjectures - which you can just poke at, and see if any of them ring tru, or false, or set off any thought processes. Remember, I don't know you - so anything/all of this may be barking up the wrong tree completely. but, obviously, things that are completely wrong are useful because you can then cross them off your list.

You know, I'm not so sure the "I don't love you" thing is necessarily a deal-breaker. Your dh isn't on here, so I can;t tell what's going on with him. But I do think it's not inconceivable that he would say something like that out of fear, a sense of failure, and just confusion. It's not great, but it is human.

There again, it could be that he's just not that into you, as your OP seems to suggest. But then, why stay? I know some men stay because it's easier to, and it's more comfortable, but ... it's not been a bed of roses has it?

I'm sensing a massive disconnection from your feelings in your posts, and particularly from your urge to narrativise. That might be something from childhood, or even a post-traumatic result, from having cancer, fertility issues and PND. As Dione has said, counselling would help with that. Particularly counselling on your own, though couples counselling would be good too.

I'm also sensing fear about trust and commitment. That, obviously, could be down to your marriage, but it might equally be something else. without knowing you, it's so hard to say. It is telling that you have used this other person to effect a distance within your marriage, rather than bringing it to an end. As though you want distance.

Just, maybe you are fucking it up, maybe you're not. What you and your DH are doing is coping. Given what has gone on, it is hardly surprising. We are programmed to survive. Don't beat yourself up because you have done all you could to survive.

Try to get a referral/find a counsellor now. The worst that can happen is that you will have to cancel and that is nothing.

I understand that you feel that your partner needs to be a part of this, however I can't help but think that counselling as part of a couple will only confuse and disorient you when considering a final goal. You need to sort out you. Then and only then will you be able to concentrate your energy on your relationship/s.

i was asking because we so often play out family dramas from our own childhoods in our adult relationships. That's all. (I'm surprised your marriage counsellor didn't ask you these thing, tbh.)

Often we take to our adult love-object lots of strange, conflicting desires/fears that we had about both our parents. It can be very unsettling. Especially if your childhood relationship with your parents, or parent, was less than plain sailing. That's kind of a banality, bt it's a place to start ... .

animula, thank you for your observations. I need to mull all of this over tonight I think. But let's just say you are accurate enough on much of what you suggest to have finally made me have a damn good cry. Probably a healthy thing.

Dione, the trouble is I do beat myself up about all of this. I can also be objective enough to see what a fucked up person I am right now, an emotional disaster who probably scared the living daylights out of the other man and who is continuing to be emotionally distant from my DH and, to a certain extent, the CDs. I am glad I posted because this has brought home how urgently I do need to sort out me.

I have no idea what kind of counselling I should seek. Relate feels a bit... general.

Do I need a shrink?? Fuck.