[long: sorry] any ideas for how I can accept him as he is (cool, distant...)...?

[outinthecold]

i've namechanged as don't want to out self. I am a regular.

Had another massive row with DP. We have had the same row for the 15 years we've been together. We both love each other, but we simply cannot communicate. We are very different personalities, and that was one of the things I really loved about him when we first met.

I have always wanted to know his 'inner life' but it is almost as if he doesn't have one. He can't articulate feelings (except the angry or sexual ones) Most of the time, I am fine with this as I can be a bit cool sometimes too. However I also often feel things pretty strongly and get excitable and passionate and rabbity and so on.

We haven't had much sex lately, although it 'comes up' once a month or so! He is much more demonstrative with our kids than he is with me - he knows they need a hug and a cuddle, and he can sometimes (not always)read their feelings.

When I bring up the issue that I feel a bit isolated, as if there is little affection in the bank, he usually loses it. Can't cope, gets angry. Usually the argument goes like this: 'look, all i'm saying is I want you to notice that I look lovely and say so' or 'I want you to want to walk over and give me a hug or kiss sometimes, and not have to ask you...' and he says 'well, I told you when we went to Relate that I have some issues with not being able to separate out feeling pissed off in general with you from my feeling affectionate/sexy [or whatever]'

I then point out that we went to Relate YEARS ago [when he was in a state of terrible grief and I was going through some other shite].

My perception is that he can't bear any suggestion of need from others because he sees it as criticism; his perception is that I am demanding and often nasty to him [for which I think he means I am bossy, critical and stuff] and so he doesn't 'feel' nicely toward me.

I am beginning to think we are just completely mismatched. Do I just have to accept living with someone cooler than I need? Or that my 'needs' are false ones and I AM being critical and 'nasty'?

don't think Ive explained myself well. Sorry.

Would you think of going back to relate to deal with this issue?

Have you ever worked on yourself alone as you said relate was due to some of your stuff as well as relationship stuff.

Can you tell a little more regarding what is frustrating you about your oh?

Ithink we may have to go back. We just can't discuss emotional things without it blowing up.

What frustrates me about him. In a nutshell he just does not seem to love me. I said to him last night that it needs to be 'done' as well as said. He might say it but not show it: no real affection, no looking me in the eyes and smiling, no spontaneous admiration.

We have a really good laugh. He is great dad and we share everything with kids and house. All of which is huge. But I can't bear that I think he just does not care enough to want to come over and put his arm round me. Or would not kiss me on his way out of the door. His lack of sexual initiation is also a killer. It was one way of having some human contact with him that he didn't feel awkward about. Now I just imagine I must revolt him (am a bit sensitve about my bodily changes since having kids). He says not; but doesn't show it IYSWIM

Has he ever seemed to love you? if not when did he cease to seem to love you?

I kind of know where you are coming from, the first three years with the exh he was very touchy feely with me all the time, looking into my eyese etc, and as time went on he only seemed to touch me as an iniciation for sex, no handholding/ no cuddles on sofa, no snogging unless I iniciated it and even then he would complain that I was making him too hot, I was digging in or something...

I sometimes wonder if lust is often confused with love for many!

We have been through lots together. Kids. Bereavements. Family stuff. I am sure he does love me, but I need to be shown. I do think the signs were always there though - he has a very rigid way of thinking, hates being interrupted (and while I recognise I interrupt A LOT he can't do the kind of discussion I have with most other people, friends, family etc) I feel like I am constantly moderating how I talk with him. He does not do body language - can't read it and doesn't really show it.

The biggest problem is how we descend into hurtful stuff when we try and discuss anything vaguely difficult. It gets caught up in semantics about arguing, and the point gets lost.

I know I'm not perfect. I am demanding, stroppy, emotional, possibly a bit self-centred. And I do have a 'needy' streak. But at what point are needs acceptable, and at what point is it unreasonable whinging?

I've lost all perspective.

It sounds like you have both been through a great deal!

You seem to have a good understanding of the unhelpful parts of yourself!

What I am reading is you are describing a man who is cold, rigid, not liking physical contact, feels critized, hates being interupted, no show of love, hurtfull stuff is being said by him or both of you?

Re the interuption thing...(my ex was like that he had to have a long long long talk at me, and I was there to listen to all he had to say, where as I like to chat back and forth, it felt to me as if he spoke to me to lecture at me and by the time he had finished I had no idea what the conversation has been about and was so tired from listening that I had forgotten half of my points and dreaded another lecture and him trying to almost trying to brainwash me to his way of thinking!) I don't know if that is a clash of personality, in that he likes long talks back and forth and some people like you and I like chit chat back and forth bit by bit...

Yes, DP also is like that too. I often get his point in the first sentence, but he has to repeat himself 12 times and go on and on and on, making the same point. Or labouring it. But he finds it difficult if I stop him or respond. I try to sit back and listen but often it is a monologue fromhim. Often when I speak, he gives NO reaction. We were discussing things - before the row bit - in the dakr last night. I finished and he said nothing. No reponse. for minutes. I eventually asked him if he'd fallen asleep. No he was just listening he said. It feels like the basic communication strategies are not there. And we have both given up all hope of being heard now.

Why did you ex become an ex? Was it this kind of stuff or more?

I don't think there is anything wrong in feeling upset with your partner and therefore not feeling like kissing/hugging them at the time.

He also brings up old hurts. I say 'look, I just want some more positive attention from you'. And he essentially makes it my fault that he can't give it. I'm not too sure what it is I am supposed to have done, other than the kinds of rows described. I don't know how we would find hte time to go to Relate though we both work and have three kids.

I did give up too, as he would not do the normal nodding/umming or what ever... most people you come across will during a pause in conversation say well .... and discuss one point and it will go back and forth, and eventually you work out where you both are ...

With the ex was not like that it was you either agree or you disagree, his mother was the same, conversation was very staid in his family, people were too scared to have an opinnion on anything and discuss it with her as she would beat you down as you say with a monologue and in the end you acquese to end the whole sorry thing... it was not enjoyable conversation at all at that house...

What was the beginning of your relationship like?

Niether do I Italianlady. But what if it is most/all of the time and the other partner is really not sure what they have done wrong to deserve permanent cold shoulder treatment?

You both sound normal for what you are, apart from the arguing getting a bit nasty - and lots of people don't know how to argue constructively and just descend into pointless bitterness and snarkyness. It's a skill that has to be learned, like any other.

Do you think, though, that even if you were any good at communicating together, you are possibly just too different to make a good couple? You can't force someone to be a different person just because you need a certain thing from them. If they're not inherently tactile or good at opening up, you can ask until the cows come home and they will never change, simply because they can't. You seem to think that if you ask in the right way, without raising his hackles, then he will give you what you need, but perhaps he's simply unable to, and you'd be much much happier with someone more like yourself?

Sorry if that sounds like a bit of a downer. I have to say I have been through this, and I gave up in the end and am glad I did. So I'm biased in that way. But also, in general; you can't change people.

cheerful, that's it. I don't really think I am ever going to be able to change him; I guess though I just don't know how to live with it. I chose it, and actually he has pretty much ALWAY?S been like this so I've made my own bed really.

When I do 'break through' to him though it is wonderful - he does have moments when we connect with each other and communicte well and understand each other. I just can't seem to stitch them together into something continuous, that we both 'remember' as the magic moements.

Can you describe the last "breakthrough" what happened before it in the days leading up to it, the moments before the "breakthrough" and what ended the "breakthrough"

My thread title is how can I accept him as he is. I suppose I'd like to think maybe I can do something different to help myself live with him, even though he's cool and distant. Do I have to just sit on my instincts and needs to do this? Or does everyone in my situation either move on to someone else or stay miserable?

mummiehunnie, I can't even remember the last one, I just know that it happens sometimes. Usually something just like this, a row or even a few rows over a few days. Eventually he gets upset himself - he is capable of feeling sadness pretty strongly - and this seems to sort of remind him that he has feelings. He becomes warmer and more physical for a wihle.

He have had so few deep and meaningful conversations. I don't tihnk he really does intimacy. I don't know what his dreams and hopes are because I don't think he knows. When ihs mum died, he barely spoke about it, even though I know he felt it deeply. I just accepted this because any attempt to ask him leads to anguish and anger for him.

He just says he's different to me, and my way of being isn't the only way. Of course this is right. But it is hard for us to - for example - have proper discussions about parenting our kids because of it.

What is said in the rows that spark a "breakthrough", do you threaten to leave?

I think - and again, this is just my opinion - it would be possible to live happily in your situation, but you'd need to have zero expectations of your other half, and a very wide diverse group of friends and a satisfying work life. In other words, you'd have to get all of your emotional needs met by other people. However, I think in the above scenario, eventually someone WOULD turn your head, because humans aren't just about the tactile, they are sexual beings as well and you would start to crave a bit of attention and love in that vein. And then of course, the guilt etc would be difficult. Many people in your situation would probably leave, or get a lover. Would your H consider an open marriage? It seems churlish to give you no affection but insist you remain faithfully by his side forever.
I would probably walk, I have to say. But that's just me, and only you can know what's the right choice for you to make.

I think you'd probably benefit from going back to Relate on your own actually, to talk things over and work out what to do. Going on with things like they are is making you miserable so it seems you need to try something different.

I hope you make headway, even just internally in terms of how you think etc :)

I haven't threatened to leave as such but it has made me question out loud whether our relationship is going anywhere. Why do you ask?

I am asking to try and help you (as from your posts it sounds like you need some help to see the full picture?) to see what triggers the "breakthrough"

What do you think is different during the "breakthrough" that then brings him back to his normal way of being, the cold man etc...

I wonder if it is at all possible he may have Aspergers?

IWNCN that's just what I was thinking. He sounds a bit like my X a good, kind person who (I'm sure, though I haven't seen him at it) is a great dad, but completely clueless about his own feelings and about how to make another person, especially a woman, feel good about herself. For example, my XH would never articulate why he loved me -- all he could say (and it was always when pushed) was "I love you because you're my wife"; you can imagine how fantastic that made me feel when I wanted to be loved for myself.

It was a disaster -- as much my fault than his in the end because our opposite personalities brought the worst out in each other. But on reflection, I'm pretty sure he is probably on the Asperger's spectrum (it certainly ran in the family). If I'd known that at the time I might have been able to take it all differently.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound arsey... I am a bit sensitive about this: this post is the first time I have mentioned my worries to anyone other than DP.

I certainly do need help to see full picture: wood and treees are all mixed up right now!

He usually takes my 'well I'd like more of this (eg physical contact initiated by him)' as evidence of an attack on his personality, and his being him. As if I should just accept what is on offer without questioning. And maybe I should.

My thoughts were not on autistic spectrum, I don't know enough about that or have enough information from your posts yet, my thoughts are more that your dp sounds quite like my ex is so many ways, we didn't argue though!

What was the relationship like at the beginning?

Well I'm glad that two people have said this before me -

The description of OP's DH - rigid thinking, ultra sensitive to critiscism, not liking to be interrupted, unemotional, unable to discuss feelings, lack of empathy - all of this could possibly fit with Asperger's Syndrome.

My DD has AS. I believe my DH has it also.

Is it worth considering OP?

I don't know enough about ASD. I have - I guess - asked myself the question about him because I know that emotional closedness and rigidity can be part of that?

MH, At the beginning the relationship was similar in some respects: I'd come out of a long term relationship in a messy way and he was - I think - in the process of extricating himself. He was thrilling but difficult. He didn't want to engage with me at the very start except that he did want to spend time with me. That sounds confusing - what I mean is, it was pretty clear after a while that he was holding me at arms length - we were only really 'dating' at that point and I think he was seeing both his old partner and some other women. Young free and single me didn't really mind the arms length bit at first although I didn't twig about other people on his 'list' until much later. After 6 months though, when he was evasive, hard to pin down, did not want to make arrangements to meet up but wanted to keep it going I finally cracked. He went off on a trip to two music festivals in quick succession with a number of friends, including women by this time who I thought he was probably having 'things' with. We had a phone conversation in which I said I wanted to either have a relationship or not but not be strung along. So he said not. I was very upset but moved on.

Six months later, he'd cleared his head (and his bed, evidently!) and wooed me seriously (although over by email, funnily enough, where he is MUCH better at expressing himself)

At this point I cracked against my better judgement because I was very into him. And he was/is wonderful in so many ways. And he became very committed and we had a lot of fun. He was never a particularly romantic sort, no big gestures etc. I was rather taken aback 3 months after we re-met when he told me he was in love with me: I'd had NO idea - he was passionate and sexy and funny but I felt like I knew nothing about his inner world. I still feel like this - sometimes I look at him and 'know' him but never feel like I really know him (like I know, for example, my friends and family...)

He isn't simple though, he's a pretty complex person (even though he thinks I simplify him!) and when we first started our relationship 'proper' it was hard, hard work. His mother was very ill and he was devastated by this and what it was doing to his family. A lot of his 'bad behaviour' in the first stages, I put down to that, not to some fundamental personality issue. Sure enough, in the periods in between stressful time, there was a lot of love in the bank, even if fairly pragmatic love and humour, rather than passionate.

Relationships are so complicated, I could go on for ever.