Moral Dilemma ... am i being plain mean? (Sorry - a bit long)

[spacemonkey]

I've got a bit of a sticky situation with dp and would appreciate some advice from you wise mumsnetters.

A while ago my dp introduced me to his boss to discuss some freelance work I could do for them. Because it is dp's employer, I put quite a lot of time and effort into preparing a proposal for them, offered free unbiased advice, and even did some work for them for nothing on the understanding that paid work would result from it.

Having prepared a detailed proposal and sent it to dp's boss I heard nothing - not even an acknowledgement. Then a couple of weeks ago I discovered that they had employed someone to do the work I was going to do for them.

I felt pretty aggrieved about this - it's not that I'm angry about not getting the work - you win some, you lose some - it's that dp's boss was so rude in not acknowledging my proposal, not even a quick email to say "thanks but no thanks". To be honest, it made my blood boil!

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago, dp asked me if I could make him an application to track stock in the warehouse he runs (I'm a web developer). Of course I agreed to do it because I want to help him and make his life easier (he's having a hellish time at work at the moment, leaving at 6am and coming home at 8 or 9pm). However - when I thought about it I started feeling really bitter and twisted about doing free work for the company that couldn't be bothered to thank me, let alone reimburse me, for the time I had spent helping them before.

I spoke to dp about it and said that I would do it to help him, but under no circumstances would I put the company's logo on it or even mention their name, and told him they can bloody well pay me if they want that! And I started working on it (it's quite complicated, so it's not finished yet, and I've been mega busy with other things, not least kids + school holidays).

Anyway, tonight I mentioned that I might take tomorrow off work to catch up on some other things, and dp asked if I could do some more on his project. He asked what I would normally get paid for a day's work by my employer and said if I spend the day working on his project he would put a bill in to his employer for that amount. To which I harrumphed and said if I was doing it for them I would charge much more than a day's pay! (Which I would - a day's regular pay does not equate to a day's freelance pay iykwim.)

Now my blood is boiling again - I feel "why the hell should I do something to benefit this company without getting paid for it" - and yet I want to make life easier for dp - AAARGH!

What would you do? Am i being mean? I'm going round in circles in my head now so any advice would be much appreciated!

[Chinchilla]

Hi SM! Hope you're ok.

Personally, I would do whatever makes you and your dp happy. If it means helping him out, then I would do it. Basically, his company are not an issue IMO, as you would do this for him wherever he worked wouldn't you? Think of it as a job to make his life easier, take the money and spend it on something nice for you both! Then, stick two fingers up to the company Oh yes, and charge them as much as you can possibly get away with!

[bossykate]

hi spacemonkey, this is going to sound rather harsh!

i would stop work immediately if i were you (i am an IT project manager btw). not only are you not getting paid for this, what happens if you complete the application and then down the line it needs maintenance or enhancements as it almost certainly will? will you be expected to do it for free or will dp's co be left in the s**t? you won't be doing dp any favours if he is seen as the progenitor of an unsupportable application in future...

fwiw, i don't think they treated you very well with the first proposal.

my advice is if you want to help your dp now, help him to come up with a business case that will justify the investment in a new application paying for you (although it could end up being someone else) to build it with proper SLAs, documentation etc.

sorry, if this sounds harsh, based on a number of years experience in IT, i can see this scenario ending in tears, though i hope that won't be the case.

[Chinchilla]

Or you could ignore me, and do what BK says! She obviously thought it through with her business head on, unlike me who has a spnge for a brain since having ds!

Whatever you decide, make sure that you are happy with it!

[bossykate]

hi chinchilla, well we got there by different routes but i wholeheartedly support the sentiment "charge them as much as you can possibly get away with"

[spacemonkey]

Thanks for your thoughts (hi chinchilla btw!) - bossykate you are right, and I have thought of the issues you've raised - but thank you for putting it so clearly and succinctly! It doesn't sound harsh - I know how projects can end in tears if not properly managed, documented, implemented and supported.

I think dp's take on it is that "once they see this, they'll want you to do more and will pay for it because they'll be so impressed" etc etc. I feel that there is very good business case for building this application - they have no system in place other than random multiple spreadsheets which duplicate a lot of work and make the company inefficient. (By the way, my original proposal was not for this application, it was for redevelopment of their public domain website.)

I feel that if it's that important to the business, the business should be prepared to pay for it (and its proper ongoing support and maintenance).

It's difficult though, because he has asked me to "throw together" a quick and dirty application that will centralise data for what is at the moment a busy but fairly small operation. At first he said it would be something only he would use, but conversations since then lead me to think that his employees would be using it too. After all, he is too busy to sit at his desk doing data entry!

It's not a huge company, and he manages two departments, so it's not as if he's a tiny cog in the machine. ks - i feel that his company has taken advantage of him since he has worked there, but dp's take on it is that although he is working his butt off (with no pay for all the overtime he's putting in), it'll pay off in the longer term (directorship or a lucrative move to another firm).

Overall, I think the points bossykate raised will have to override my emotion-based desire to help him out. I'll just have to word it tactfully when I speak to dp about it!

[bossykate]

spacemonkey, thanks for your kind words , but i sense some wavering, so must live up to my nickname, i'm afraid!

you wrote:

"he has asked me to "throw together" a quick and dirty application that will centralise data for what is at the moment a busy but fairly small operation"

nooooooo! come on, it sounds like a case study!

IME, it is the thrown together, quick and dirty applications that live the longest - and i should know, i've presided over the implementation of more than a few, i'm ashamed to say!

it is always these, IME, that require the last minute tweaks, the uncontrolled changes based on changing user requirements, the rewrites to make them parameter driven rather than based on hard-coded values as the application grows (not that you would do this sm, but i have seen it done by those who should know better) - need i go on?

if there is a genuine need, dp should be able to persuade "management" and hopefully you will get to do this work anyway for a handsome fee!

sorry for being bossy!

[bossykate]

and good luck!

[spacemonkey]

bk you are so right ... I can see it all now ... scope creep nightmare ending in a bodged application that no-one in their right mind could maintain AAAAAAARGH!!!!

Thanks for bossing me, you've made up my mind

[bossykate]

on the other hand, that could be a lucrative cottage industry for you... all the best, bk.

[WideWebWitch]

Wholeheartedly agree with bossykate I'm afraid spacemonkey. Good luck with finding a tactful way of saying "they can f* off and die if they think I'm working on a cheap way of getting them out of a hole"

[spacemonkey]

makes me laugh because i've been writing my letter of resignation to my current boss tonight - he is the king of thrown together quick and dirty apps, just as you describe - and I can't stand it any more. I'm not a project manager, but my boss's total lack of PM skills have forced me to attempt (repeatedly) to introduce some standardised ways of working (documenting user requirements, writing modular maintainable code etc). It's impossible without support from above though, and anyway I lack the knowledge of PM procedures to push the changes through.

How did you gain your expertise bk? Genuinely interested (need to learn these skills fast)!

[spacemonkey]

GUFFAW www!

[lou33]

Spacemonkey listen to BK, she's making lots of sense!

[berries]

I'm with BK, (and in the same business too). It is very tempting to put something together to fix a quick problem, but these are always the things that hang around for ages, and end up with endless maintenance problems. As regards PM, you can go on courses, but I think running home, career and childcare is a very good start. If in doubt, document, it's amazing how many people will change their minds about things when they see it in writing.

[motherinferior]

I don't work in your field but am a freelancer, and I too think BK is absolutely right.

[spacemonkey]

Thank you everyone for your opinions. I agree with BK too, it's just the fact it is dp that was clouding my thinking on the matter

[bossykate]

sorry, spacemonkey, meant to get back to you about learning PM skills etc... am really shattered so going to bed now, but will try and post something useful tomorrow. hope your dp understands

[spacemonkey]

BK - thankyou, any pointers to resources/training would be REALLY welcome as i'm about to start a new job and will definitely need to (and want to) develop skills in this area.

Have a good rest

[bossykate]

hi spacemonkey, i've been thinking it over today, and i'm not sure my experience will be of any use

here goes anyway.

i'm a chartered accountant, and as many of us do, trained in the audit practice of a large firm. while there, i specialised in information systems audit and assurance. a large part of that is reviewing it projects which impact the financials, to ensure that proper controls are in place. for example, you need to understand a project life cycle, the outputs from each phase (e.g. user requirements documentation) and the controls around each phase (user sign-off of the requirements). you also need to have an understanding of standard PM control activities such as status monitoring and reporting, governance, issue and risk management. i've looked at the importance of segregation of environments, proper controlled code promotion procedures etc. i had training in all these aspects at my firm and qualified as a certified information systems auditor.

from there i moved on to a role in another company as a business analyst/pm - turning from gamekeeper to poacher if you like and learning "the hard way" about project management. i've never looked back, it seems to suit me!

i should point out though, i've mainly worked on system integration projects, rather than those with a large degree of bespoke development - i can speak most of the lingo, but am far from being a techie.

what would i advise in your situation?

well, first of all, don't be too hard on yourself. from your comments on this thread, you seem very knowledgeable about many aspects already.

also, as berries says, if you are used to managing a household and family, you already have most of the task management and "influencing" skills necessary!

i would concentrate on getting a good grip on the life cycle as a whole, if you don't already have this.

then i would focus on the areas of:
-planning
-estimation
-issue resolution
-risk management
-influencing/relationships

from what you say, i wouldn't be surprised if you weren't already aware of the importance of these areas, and have a good grasp of them.

in terms of training, there is a course you can do to become a "certified project manager" - i can find out more about this if you like - i'm usually a bit sceptical of credentials like this as they rarely focus on the most important aspect of performance for a pm - delivery.

you can also use the Project Managers' Body of Knowledge - administered by the Project Management Institute. in addition, there's quite a lot of methodology stuff on The Software Engineering Institute . These are the people responsible for the CMM methodology.

i wonder if the above is just a sledgehammer to crack a nut. if you don't mind me saying so, it could be that confidence in your abilities is the issue. if so, i would get a book such as Project Management for Dummies to learn the jargon - and then just go for it. Not any reflection on you - it's the series i always go for when i want things spelled out in plain language...

the absolutely vital "training" that i had was being thrown in at the deep end to just get on with it with only my theoretical knowledge to help.

you are absolutely correct to say that without supportive management, it's very difficult to deliver quality, or indeed anything at all. if i were going to another job in pm, i would ask to interview the project sponsor before accepting the job - you have to be sure they understand their management responsibilities in terms of backing the project. without this backing, it is difficult for even the most accomplished pm to succeed.

i would be interested to know what you mean when you say your current boss has no pm skills? is he "user" management or "it" management? crucial difference, ime.

anyway, long ramble and probably not that much use. hope you are feeling liberated now you have resigned and good luck!

[aloha]

BK, I am in awe. These posts could have been written in Sanskrit for all I understand them. You are all very clever people and I am very glad you run IT systems and not idiots like me.
BTW, I did understand the bit about charging as much as you can and think this is v good idea.

[bossykate]

lol, aloha! did you know it was once my dream to be a journalist?

[spacemonkey]

BK - thank you so much for taking the time to post all of that info

I think the Dummies book would be a good place to start for me and I'll get hold of it ASAP. In the job I've been in for the last 4 years or so (the one I've just resigned from) I've been working on fairly small web applications through the whole project life cycle - I think exactly the same principles apply on these smaller projects as on the larger ones.

My boss (who is now a very unhappy boss!) is a good salesman and lateral thinker, but when I say he has no PM skills I mean just that - he meets the client and doesn't even write down their requirements on the back of a fag packet, let alone use any set procedure to establish requirements. "Specification" was not in his vocabulary until I started shouting it at him on a daily basis. It's been awful - I am very conscientious about my work, I want to understand what a client wants and needs and deliver an application that meets those wants and needs within the agreed timescale - and that NEVER happens. It makes me feel I've not done a good enough job, yet truly I believe that I am doing as good a job as I can with the information given to me (i.e. inadequate).

The new job I'm going to (along with my long suffering colleague who also resigned today) involves starting up a new web applications development department for the company. I feel that this department will grow quickly and that long suffering colleague and myself will soon find ourselves doing more PM and client liaison than nuts and bolts development - hence my feeling that I want and need to develop these skills ASAP. As you point out, there's nothing like experience, preferably of the deep end variety, to teach you. I want to underpin that with some theoretical knowledge for now and will follow your advice.

Know what you mean about often dubious certifications - I just wondered if you knew of any valuable training courses, and will still consider this as an option if the company are willing to fund it. Our new manager and the MD are very experienced PMs - although not in the IT field (their business is setting up libraries and paper-based document management systems) - but I feel that we will have the opportunity to learn a lot from them that will be directly transferable to IT.

Thanks again for the info and good luck wishes - it's been a rather stressful day but will be SO worth it in the end!

[prufrock]

spacemonkey i am about to go on just such a course - 2 years after I started doing PM my company has finally got round to offering me some training! I can't remember when it is, but I will let you know what I think of it afterwards. Its being run by these people who are one of our companies standard training providers so should really be quite good. Although my experience isn't in the IT area, I would second bk's advice that the best way to learn is rto jump in at the deep end. Then after you've finished the project hold a post mortem so you don't do the same things wrong next time

[spacemonkey]

prufrock - thanks, would definitely be interested to hear how the course goes ... hope it's good