OW contacted H for Advice

[Movingon2010]

Last night I discovered OW had contacted H for advice regarding whether she should take redundancy about three weeks ago.I had asked if he had any contact with her as I had one of those moments and was surprised he said yes and this contact was revealed.

Background: H had an affair from May 2008, I found out about the affair in April 2009 and after 6 weeks of individual counselling had asked him to leave which he did and moved in with her. We had seperated for 6 months and just before Christmas last year he asked if we could try again (2 DC 5 & 6 at time). He promised no contact then we decided to move os and did so in Feb this year. After further relationship counselling we were building (I thought) a new relationship working on areas of discontent etc. He said he had no contact since he moved back in and this was the first time.

Supposedly she was offered a redundancy and wanted to discuss options with H because she had no one to talk through outside the company H and her had worked for.

I am angry and hurt that he has not been open and honest and the post affair feelings have returned. I don't feel I can trust him or depend upon him and I am unsure how to handle this latest revelation.

We had a loud arguement last night and he said I was being unreasonable - am I?

Demanding passwords is extremely controlling - if one can't afford him the most basic areas of privacy then there's really not much point continuing.

Finally received a reply to say on way to catching flight so will reply to my email tomorrow - I am okay with that as I like to ponder things through.Though do wonder if he is trying to work out best damage limitation.

Mr Manager - you sound like H regarding privacy rights. I never asked him for the passwords as I feel he would have been careful to hide any information anyway if he was aware I had access.
Tadpole - H had seen it no different than helping an ex girlfriend, there is a huge difference between ex girlfriend (before marriage) and ex mistress which he couldn't seem to grasp. This person is not a friend to our family.

Here is the email I forwarded - which really is a view of where I am and what I wished I was able to say coherently throughout our arguement. Thanks to mners for helping articulate what I want to say...sorry unable to source your work correctly
^Now I have calmed and had an opportunity to reflect on your recent revelation I believe we have on going issues, which need addressing, and we need to come to a decision about whether we do have a future together.

It is a fundamental rule of affair recovery that contact with the other person is severed and any contact thereafter, even unsolicited is disclosed. This helps rebuild trust after it has vanished. That you didn?t volunteer this and have only disclosed it after I asked suggests that you will only tell the truth about anything when asked the right question. I think you have deluded yourself that you will no longer lie and because in your mind you hadn?t actually lied, just hadn?t told me (lying by omission) - see it as progress - it is not enough. The truth and fidelity in our relationship cannot be governed by my instincts and ability to ask the right question.

I believe you have told me as much as you feel you were able to get away with. The fact that you deleted the email shows that A) you never wanted me to find out and B) whatever was in that email was going to be damaging to you if discovered. I think there is more. This is what should have happened when she got in touch:

1"I am sorry, I can't help you with this. Please don't contact me again for any reason." - and showed me the email.

2 "OW has e-mailed me on the pretext of needing advice, I asked her not to contact me again. Should she be in touch again I'll let you know." - and showed me your response and her email.

I highly doubt that this woman has no one in her own life that isn't in her company for her to speak to about her career. How has she accumulated her assets previously (you have indicated she was financially savvy)? Regardless of whether she does or not, it is not your problem, you are in a marriage where you have caused a trust issue, again, my need for total honesty and no contact should come above anything that woman needs from you. Once again, you have put her feelings above mine in order to 'help' her. Look at from how I view it - it is absurd that she was contacting you only for financial advice if you have had a relationship/affair with someone for more than a year, which ended when he went back to his wife, would you really phone him up a year later just for career advice? No, she was testing out the water, and you were flattered and so it starts up again. It seems far more likely that she has been kept on the back burner for some time with occasional contact, because you are someone who likes the idea of a safety net if things don?t work out with us. This has meant you have never fully re-committed to our marriage (hence buying of house issue).^

Moving - it's a good email. I hope he 'gets it' this time, but whether he does or not isn't the important thing here right now. The important thing is that you have sorted out where you stand with regard to what you are and aren't prepared to put up with to keep your life as it is.

That was a good E mail. Now, as chipping says, you need to work out what you want.

For the sake of clarity, all relationships possess a set of mutual expectations. It is everyone's "right" to express these and it's everyone's "right" to refuse to meet them. In the context of this relationship, it was of course the OP's "right" to express an expectation that there was no contact with her H's OW and that if there was, this would be disclosed. If her H accepted this expectation and agreed to it, but then reneged on that agreement, the OP has some decisions and choices to make.

Likewise, the OP absolutely had the right to request transparency and it was up to her H to say whether he was prepared to deliver that. When there is a breach of trust like an affair, it is not unusual at all that passwords etc. are volunteered by the person who has caused such hurt. In this case, the OP did not request this and it wasn't offered by her H. The OP chose to accept this and continue with the marriage nevertheless.

That was her choice, as it was her choice to bargain away perhaps, her feelings that this betrayal could never be overcome, but in doing so she perhaps made another choice which was that it was more important to her at that time that she was able to control what time she spent with her DCs and who they would see. This latest turn of events has caused her to review that decision - and others.

As long as choices and decisions are being openly conducted and no one is being deceived in the process, asking for what we need in relationships is not controlling at all. If unacceptable "demands" are being made in relationships, the recipient of this has the right to say "no".

An affair on the other hand, is a hugely controlling behaviour, because needs and wants are being expressed behind a cloak of deceit. It is the epitomy of denying the other person their choices.

It sounds as if the OW has not moved on from your DH and was looking for any reason to contact him.

You cannot blame your DH for her contacting him. Yes, he should have told you,but it was probably easier for him to delete the e-mail and pretend it had never happened. This is not right, but it islightly understandable.

This, in my opinion, sounds like an OW who is finding it very hard to let go rather than a DH who is wanting to restart an affair.

mrmanager. you asked a loaded question and then you followed up with why you were really asking. do not tell me to chill.

H's response to email:
^Have not been able to get any peace today, and the email won't work on my computer (again). I'm not sure either how to answer your email really. I can refute the various points, but that doesn't really get us anywhere, does it? I am sorry I upset you and I want us to work this out as I thought things between us were getting better- albeit slowly.

You know I chose you, and I walked away from any safetynet over a year ago. There is no going back, only forwards. What do we need to do to get past this?^

I responded with:
I felt things were starting to get better. By having accepted contact with her, your actions once again have caused trust issues. I am unwilling to have her shadow over us now or future and I want you to email her saying ?Please don?t contact me again.? and cc the message with any response back to me. This woman is not a friend of our family. I feel if you are really committed to making our family unit strong and safe you need to understand this.

I need openness and truthfulness, your concern of my anger is second place to my need for honesty. If you don?t get that then you aren?t ready to work at this properly. You need to know what it means to be honest, truly honest, about everything, regardless of consequence. That is the only way you can build up my trust.

We have since spoken and he was willing to do as I have asked which seems positive and we have agreed to talk when he comes home.

I read in another thread about there being a tipping point when you decide to leave the realtionship permanently if he had been unwilling to agree to my wants/ needs this I believe this was the tipping point.

Thank you for all your amazing insights and help, including the different views.Here's hoping for a brighter present and future relationship.

"Let your light shine" is my new and shiny motto.

Good luck movingon2010, I hope it all works out for you.

oh moving, i totally get what you mean about the tipping point. well this is positive. he has said he will do as you ask. this will be hard for you to turst him again but i truly hope he has 'gotten' it now. it must mean no contact with OW and totall honesty.

Good, that is v positive

Dear Moving, I am wondering how this panned out. How did your DH respond to your email?

I'm sorry but I still think he hasn't grasped the situation at all. His reply to you seems to suggest that things are now not geting better as you are causing an enormous fuss about nothing -which it certainly isn't.

This woman should be seen as much as a threat by HIM to his future happiness as she is to you. This means that any contact should cause him distress, which he immediately opens up to you about and discusses how to deal with her intrusion. If he's still willing to conceal and lie when it comes to her, he's still the same man who can conceal and lie about an attraction, an affair and so forth. He hasn't changed a bit. Don't let him fob you off, and let him know that this behaviour is just another repeat of the past - lying to himself and minimising the effects of his behaviour by justifying that he's 'protecting' you from something.

If he can't see this is a slippery slope, he hasn't learned a thing from the past.

He should have changed his number and told you straight away YANBU

BTW, this is an old thread (Dec.10th) I was just wondering how it or if it was ever resolved.