OW contacted H for Advice

[Movingon2010]

Last night I discovered OW had contacted H for advice regarding whether she should take redundancy about three weeks ago.I had asked if he had any contact with her as I had one of those moments and was surprised he said yes and this contact was revealed.

Background: H had an affair from May 2008, I found out about the affair in April 2009 and after 6 weeks of individual counselling had asked him to leave which he did and moved in with her. We had seperated for 6 months and just before Christmas last year he asked if we could try again (2 DC 5 & 6 at time). He promised no contact then we decided to move os and did so in Feb this year. After further relationship counselling we were building (I thought) a new relationship working on areas of discontent etc. He said he had no contact since he moved back in and this was the first time.

Supposedly she was offered a redundancy and wanted to discuss options with H because she had no one to talk through outside the company H and her had worked for.

I am angry and hurt that he has not been open and honest and the post affair feelings have returned. I don't feel I can trust him or depend upon him and I am unsure how to handle this latest revelation.

We had a loud arguement last night and he said I was being unreasonable - am I?

Oh a hard one I don't know, he's a good dad, he can be good company, we have many common interests - problem is I don't know if I do love him jumbled with my fear of seperating the family. I don't think he would as one of the things he said was he couldn't live half way around world from his DC I imagine he would possibly bring her out though think the relationship was beginning to wane and lose intensity after a few months of living with her.

do you think that was why he came back to you, he had tasted the grass and realised it wasn't any greener?

One of his biggest issues and his justification for having the affair was when the DC arrived he was no longer first priority and I did think after DC2 he suffered depression.
I think when he moved in with her - was a shock for him when I told him to leave - that OW settled into pratical RL and excitement of situation was gone.

that happens in every relationship. the adult in him should ahve realised it was natural and seen it through. but instead teh child in him ran back to where he was most comfortable.

Yanbu at all.

Agree with what spidookly said.

As this unfolds (like stealth but nicely :) ) it seems to me like you took him back to not share the children before any thought of your happiness or his really came into it, which is understandable, if not entirely wise.

As I see it, you don't have many options do you :( You have had councelling - I don't see the point in anymore.

Men who 'no longer feel like first priority' after a child is born really need to grow the fuck up - it would appear he hasn't. He has 2 lovely children and he is depressed because he's no longer your only first priority? (PND is different due to hormonal changes).

This may seem really blunt, but this is how I see your options:

If you aren't prepared to share the care of DC's and you aren't prepared for him to have another woman in his life the children call step mum, you have to put up and shut up with whatever goes on in your relationship.

If, however, you aren't prepared to put up with any shit in your relationship, you have to accept sharing your childrens non school hours and them calling someone else step mum.

The thing you have to remember is that you are showing your children how relationships work, how would you feel if your DC acted like either of you(?) and no matter what they call any other woman in their life - YOU will always be their Mum - that wont change.

Please don't get me wrong, I really feel for you. I have been where you are, but without children - which admittedly is very different, but it hurts just as much. I want to kick the bastard into next week for you. However, I think that sometimes it helps when someone not emotionally invested in the situation can tell you how they see your options... I didn't do an advance search on your name before replying - I thought you had chosen this name for this thread - I thought it implied you were now 'moving on' but if this was from when you moved I can see why you chose the name x

i agree with chippingin

I would C&P Sidookly's 08:14:40 & Booyhohoho's following post, minus the deal-breaker part, and send it to H, so he has his actions laid bare.

His reaction & subsequent behaviour will probably give you the answers you want about your marriage. He needs to accept that he was wrong, give you full disclosure & commit to putting you first and foremost.

I have mulled over what to do and I hope you don't mind I am going to plagerise some of your sentences/responses etc. to send an email to him which will either make or break our relationship. H needs to know I will not compromise on contact and if he is unable to accept he does need to leave this marriage for good.

MN is great and wish I had used it on discovery of the affair - we may have been in a better position now.xx

Late to this thread, but I agree with ChippingIn. You need to put your fears of the consequences to one side almost and see the simplicity of the decision.

What you are telling us is that the behaviours that caused your H to have an affair in the first place are still very much in evidence. He resented not being the centre of your attention, had an affair and ultimately, chose the OW. He then got tired of not being the centre of attention with her as well, sacked her and returned to you.

It is a fundamental rule of affair recovery that contact with the affair partner is severed and any contact thereafter, even unsolicited, is disclosed. This restores trust after it has vanished.

That he didn't volunteer this and has only disclosed it when pressed, suggests that he will only tell the truth about anything when he is asked the right question. He possibly deludes himself that he will no longer lie to your face and sees this as progress, but it is not enough. The truth and fidelity in your relationship cannot be governed by your instincts and ability to ask the right questions.

Staying with someone for reasons other than love is never a good idea. Likewise, he sounds like a man who cannot be on his own and will make decisions about his romantic relationships based on his own comfort factors and attention needs, rather than the love he feels and is willing to give.

It is absurd that the OW was contacting him for financial advice and far more likely that she has been kept on the back-burner for some time with occasional contact, because he is probably someone who likes the idea of a safety net if things didn't work out with you. This has meant he has never fully re-committed to your marriage and you have been living with the effects of that, with a concomitant erosion of your feelings.

I suspect in your shoes I would conclude that after almost three years of turmoil, your H is never going to "get this" and I suspect it is because he never has, that your feelings for him have gradually diminished. This was always the risk he took, by not understanding his behaviour and actions.

WWIFN - you have put the situation and described him in a nutshell. I have followed the advice you have previously offered others which has helped enormously.

I have been composing the email in my head and scared of the response. He is very articulate and runs rings round me in logical conversation and makes me feel I am being unreasonable hence the initial thread.

I know I accepted him back because I realised I was unhappy having to wave the children off every second weekend though I did start an OU course and took time out for me. That still hasn't changed I really don't want DC to move between house and lives and have someone play part time mum to my DC. I do worry what example I set for my DD(7) and I think we do put up a good front playing 'Happy Families'. You are right though we need to make a decision.

Oh boy I have done it (that is sent the email) and now wait for the fall out. I can't believe it my hands are shaking and my tummy is churning.

How did you discover the new contact?

Hard to explain just a feeling that she had been in contact - I haven't really analysed it - like with the affair it was instinctive (though did gather evidence before confronting him about affair this time I just asked out of the blue)

Funny he asked me a similar question - think he was trying to learn from 'mistakes'.

Not necessarily, it would just be a bit rich of you to charge him with breach of your trust if you had found out about it from looking at his phone/email, etc.

Since his all have passwords which he has refused to divulge it would be difficult and he is aware my computer skills are basic.Also have previously been a technophobe and had no real interest in mobile phone - only recently become a fan of texting (convenience).

Arf at attempted equivalence between cheating on your spouse and snooping after betrayal.

Moving - he is very secretive for a supposedly contrite cheater.

I hope you get the response you want from your e-mail, but it doesn't sound like he is fully committed to you or this marriage.

Don't you think you would be happier if you never had to wonder again about his lies?

spidookly - if I was able to hack into his computer I would have and without regret.

I included (almost word for word) the correct responses I should have received.
Really unsure what reponse I am wanting anymore - complete communication black out so far.

Thank you to all on this thread as the email was plagiarised a summary of many things written on here.

OP ignore MrManager. he isn't here to support you, he is here to represent all men and doesn't believe that this man can be in the wrong without something on your part to cause it. please don't listen to anything he says. it isn't meant for your support at all, he has his own agenda.

do you feel the email will change anything?

Chill out, booyhohoho, I just asked how she found out.

He should have freely offered up passwords etc so that you could have complete peace of mind, it's his job to rebuild your trust in him. He doesn't look like a man intent on reassuring you, understanding of where your founded insecurity lies or demonstrable intent to change his ways. He should be offering this information up to you, you shouldn't have to be asking for passwords and details. The fact that he has the effrontery to deny you this, after his betrayal, speaks volumes.

I think he needs to be presented with his behaviour to see what he says. And if he doesn't have a revelatory moment, then WWIFN's assessment that he has OW on the back-burner may be true.

I am going to chip in here although I know I tend to hold a minority view. While I do understand your upset over the discovery of renewed contact, I simply do not think that anyone has the right to tell another person who they can or cannot talk to.

IF it was primarily a conversation about work, which may well have been the case, and the affair pretty much ran its course, which may also be the case, by taking a hard line over this you run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I would NEVER tell a grown man who he could or could not talk to, irrespective of what has happened in the past. Sure, tell him that you feel hurt and upset because you feel that perhaps he may still have feelings for OW. You could then hopefully open up a discussion about what you BOTH want.

"It is a fundamental rule of affair recovery that contact with the affair partner is severed and any contact thereafter, even unsolicited, is disclosed. This restores trust after it has vanished."

It doesn't really restore trust though, does it? It lays down a condition and puts someone out of touch. Is that restoring trust? Not in my book it isn't.

In any case who made that "rule"? There must be thousands of people out there who are happily in contact with ex-lovers or mistresses. No doubt sometimes there are teary "what ifs" and all that stuff. So what?

WWIFN - I know you have offered a lot of advice on here which people have found helpful, but there really aren't any RULES, unless you count that ridiculous book.

The OP has raised some issues herself about why she has elected to stay in the relationship. Be careful about issuing ultimatums, they can easily backfire.

Tadpoles as posters keep telling you, throughout the history of your numerous name changes, the rules that exist in your relationship are of no relevance, as irrelevant as the as the rules that exist in mine. The "rule" that I mention however, is one that works for most couples after there has been a breach of trust. The poster agrees and we should be acknowledging her feelings about that.

What matters most is the boundaries that exist in the OP's relationship, what would restore trust for her and for him. It doesn't matter that you couldn't respect a man who allowed conditions to be attached to his relationship. As you know, I take an entirely contrary view, which is that someone demonstrates their commitment to their relationship by being open and honest, volunteering information and in this case, disclosing continued contact with the affair partner.

Secrecy in this context is virtually guaranteed to damage trust, but the point is that it has damaged trust and the OP has the right to have those feelings. Just because you wouldn't feel the same is neither here or there. As you know, I have my own views about your perspective and why you have it, but if you insist (as you do) that yours is a healthy relationship, then all that matters is what you and your DP think, not me.