Please help me - my mother makes me feel I am seven years old. I am 35.

[ChristianaCatesby]

I would massively appreciate some advice.

I have never got on brilliantly with my mother who I feel has been disappointed in me, after a very precocious start, I have let her down. I was brought up hearing a lot of criticism, from 'Gosh, it's a shame your hair is curly', 'You're the clever one, your brother is the nice one, he is so nice' to 'you've put on weight haven't you, let's see if you can fit in to my old clothes from when I had ALREADY HAD ONE CHILD' (I'd ballooned to a size eight in my teens)... If I dressed modestly, I was accused of being boring, if I didn't, she said I looked like a tart.

I have had real confidence problems all my life.

My dear father died seven years ago, and I thought that his death might actually be a catalyst to enable us to get on better, my mother and I. However I suffered bad depression after his death and I found it hard even though I supported her financially and emotionally as much as I could. However, my financial support (I had a really well paid job then) has now been turned into how materialistic I was because I bought myself some expensive clothes etc.

Anyway, I lived abroad for a few years with my DH and had my first child. We moved back to the UK and around a year after that my mother met someone new. We decided to move closer to where she lived when my DH was offered a job there. She seemed very excited, had really turned a corner, seemed very supportive.

However, she said she would look after our DD when we went flat hunting. After a week staying with her, hoping perhaps she could look after DD for a few hours maybe, she had all this time refused to. On the penultimate day of our cisit, I mentioned to her it would be really helpful to look after DD for one afternoon so we could confirm which flat we wanted to rent without DD running around, so we could debate rental amounts etc. Again, she refused, in a roundabout way, as she had done all week - ie she was busy, she had something else to do (she often says this after promising to do something). Then she said to her boyfriend that night that we had been demanding and unfair.

Cue the boyfriend, the next day, accusing me of being hideous to my mother, of rejecting their hospitality, of being difficult and demanding. He started shouting at me (he was drunk) and pointing his finger at me, until I was standing in the corner of the room, with him standing over me jabbing his finger in my face (not touching).

I was extremely upset.

Now, two and a half years later we have another DD. We sometimes see my mother but she makes no effort at all with DD1 though seems keen on DD2. DD1 never wants to see her. The stories are long and varied but basically she's not that into us. BUT SHE SAYS TO EVERYONE ELSE THAT SHE IS. And what an amazing grandmother she is etc etc.

I have found it very hard to speak to her boyfriend and as they live an hour and a half away and never invite us that's not usually much of a problem. Often my mother phones me up and says she is going to split up with him, how annoying he is. I stay silent. She then says she's not going to split up with him because she's going on holiday or whatever and needs him to look after the house when she's gone.

This year my DH was made redundant, and has since been suffering from severe depression. We are still getting the meds right, but for example he refuses to see anyone who is not family, and is having a really tough time. As am I, trying to look after the DDs, DH and having really not one penny to rub together. I am trying to get a job but am unsuccessful so far. I am really stressed out.

So, my mother invited us for Christmas saying that her BF would not be there, that he was going to be with his children at his place in town. We said yes, and I thought it would be good for the DDs to be in the countryside with a lovely tree etc. However, after a few strange conversations on the phone, and much prodding from us, she has decided that I have just 'got to get over it' and that her boyfriend was going to be there. I don't want to go now, I feel betrayed. I don't want to be around him.

My mother makes me feel awful about me. I feel so childish and silly but I DO NOT WANT TO BE AROUND HIM. I also know my mother makes me feel like a pile of shit but I did think I could try to overlook it in order to give my children a good Christmas. But I don't know what to do. I am looking for any advice please.

No advice really, just that I'm sorry you have to deal with such a difficult pair of selfish individuals.
Perhaps you could plead poverty as a reason to not go?
I do understand though that your mother will believe whatever she wants to and that this would be difficult for you to do. My mother is similar in some ways.

YOu, as you say, are 35. You can have a good Christmas without your mother putting you down. If you get the idea out of your head that you should be at her house, you'll have a much better time than if you had actually gone.

You are grieving for the mother you've never had. And I know how you feel - once I released my mother from all obligations to actually be motherly, or even to treat me as considerately as I would treat a not-so-close friend, I also released myself of the obligation to 'make it work'.

She is toxic and tbh I would probably cut her out completely let alone just Xmas day.

colditz yu are very wise. i could have written the OP's post too and you have really made me think...

It sounds as though your mother has never really put you first or treated you as you think she should. Tbh I think the key to dealing with that sort of thing is to stop wishing she would behave differently. She isn't going to, and so I think you have to accept who she is or, if that is too hard, walk away for a bit.

It doesn't sound as though going to her for christmas will make much difference to your girls, so let yourself off the hook there (if that will help you).

I can see that right now (with your DH struggling) you could use your mother's help. But she sounds incapable of giving you what you need. Siblings, old friends etc can be far more value IMO - could you enlist help from other quarters?

Get rid of all the 'shoulds' and 'duties' you've been shouldering for years. Your first duty is to yourself. You are probably not used to putting yourself first, as it's pretty clear your mother never has; but it's finally time at the grand old age of 35 to start doing so. If you don't look after yourself, your whole family will fall apart, so please start now.

I know that things must be really hard for your DH now, and that you do have to shoulder that burden. That is enough. It would be enough for any woman. Anyone who hurts you cannot be let into your life at the moment.

I am sure that everything seems so bleak, you can't imagine having a nice Christmas at home - but you will. You don't need money - go to church for a carol concert (even if you aren't religious a good sing does the world of good) - a good brisk walk on Christmas morning - and some family games and a good film on TV. Christmas lunch doesn't have to cost a fortune for the 4 of you.

I am glad you posted - I am sure you must be really down to have done so. I can tell from your message that you're the sort of woman who feels she has to be strong and cope - so a question. Have you talked to friends about how you feel? Have you told them you need a bit of taking care of?

Finally, I lost my Mum this year and now it's near Christmas I am really feeling it. We had a complicated relationship. In lots of ways she was like yours - very critical of me - but in others she was fabulous. She adored my kids and helped out with them in every way. I overlooked the bad bits because the good bits were so good and the benefits to my kids were so strong. What is the benefit to you of your relationship with your mother?

Oh my goodness I have tears in my eyes thank you all for such understanding words

I am goingto reread and digest all this. You have helped so much and I am happy to think that I am not alone in this, and that I am not wrong or bad or difficult or childish.

My moment of truth was when my 'd'm wrote me a letter saying I was no longer her daughter. She was an abusive bullying narcissist, with very bad taste in friends, too.

I say was, it was 18 years ago, she probably still is, but at least she isn't in my life any more. Somewhere along the line, I think we have to grieve for the mother we didn't have, and laugh at the moments when we want to cry 'I want my Mummy', because that person didn't exist for us. At least it gives us a whole long list of things not to do as mothers.

Use this Christmas to start some new traditions for you, your dh and your dc for your family Christmases.

Christiana

You were the child, now adult victim, of toxic parents. Your mother abused you then and continues to denegrate and abuse you now. Small wonder therefore at 35 you feel like a child again. Your mother won't change, it is NOT your fault she is like this and you did not make her this way. Her parents likely did.

Like many such people you are now trapped in the FOG - fear, obligation (agreeing to see them at Christmas) and guilt.

Your mother remains the driving force here but presuambly your Dad stayed with your Mum until he died. I am sorry that he was not able to protect you fully.

I am not at all surprised your eldest daughter does not want to see her toxic grandmother. Such toxic people like your Mum are more than happy to pass on their ills to the next generation. One generation already i.e your good self has already been profoundly affected by her; please do not let her poison your children's childhood as well.

I would cut her and her awful BF off and not give them any more of your time. Easier said than done and I would also urge you to have cousnelling. BACP have counsellors and they do not charge the earth. Your own family unit are your number 1 priority now.

You may also want to read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward and read the "Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

I agree with the others.
You owe her nothing& she adds nothing to your life.

She´s not even going to be alone on Christmas Day, so no need to feel bad abot that.

I agree with everyone else. You don't owe her anything.

I too can't stand to be around my mothers DH. We went to the city they live in to visit and we refused to stay in their home. We invited her to tag along with us and the dc's and had a couple of meals at his house. But it was so much better than last time when we actually stayed in his house. This way we weren't beholden. The turning point for me was when I realised I didn't want to expose my kids or dp to such an arsehole.

Just because my mum is with an arse, doesn't mean I have be around him.

But your mum sounds toxic, like the others said. You look after yourself and your kids and partner first.

You dont have to go. The extra stress and upset would be bad for both you and DH. I would go as far as to say its your duty to your nuclear family not to go.

Have a lovely Christmas at home :)

Thank you so much for your comments

I guess I am still having trouble with the GUILT. My half brothers (my father was married before he married my mother and had two sons) have their excuse and have distanced themselves naturally from her, and won't be spending Christmas with her, they have large families and also are very very successful so are released from all obligations because she can always reflect in their glory.

My full brother has moved abroad so is also 'excused'.

My aunt has been cut out of her life and the rest of our family lives abroad.

But this won't stop all of these people asking me why I am not going, they understand how my mother is but I think that they will not understand me staying home for Christmas. So should I go, instead of having to explain to everyone. What would I say? Does anyone have any experience of how to deal with this?

anabelle it is a thought we could just go for lunch or something and then escape home. But a three hour round trip on Christmas Day...

I really really want to have a guilt free Christmas though, particularly as on Friday I had some great news that I HAVE GOT A JOB! At last! Been through awful lot of interviews and stress! So we are going to be able to splash out just a teensy bit, not go overboard at all (I have been really broke for a long time). DH seems to be getting better with the news that some of the pressure of money will ease, and I think we would really like to mark this Christmas as the start of something new.

I have been thinking more and more about how strange my mother is to me and how bizarre some of her behaviour is. She exhibits such grandiosity - she asked me if I was going to write to Prince William to see if my DDS could be bridesmaids at the wedding

Game playing - constant. Really all my life. Making me feel guilty or silly. She sent me to private school but would tell me how it meant she was so poor she couldn't eat properly. Occasionally she'd tell me she thought that all the money problems meant that she thought she might leave my father.

She doesn't understand my feelings, when I split up with my first long term boyfriend she didn't call me for months and said that she felt sorry for him because he had been in love with me.

She thinks people are jealous of her or me all the time.

You can't have an opinion - things are black and white, good or bad.

I worked for an investment firm. She put some of her inheritance into some funds (not ones I worked on), the value fell when the market fell, but rose again consequently. However, without telling me she withdrew the money and put a 40% deposit on a house for my brother. She then told me, and said that she felt I had given her no help looking after her money so she had decided to buy my brother a flat instead. She said she'd originally thought that she would split the money between my brother and I but then as the investment had dropped in value during the time I had worked at the investment house then she had decided not to. I was so upset by this but I don't want to sound materialistic, it just was pretty unfair I thought to blame me for bloody global equity market movements!

I let myself stay in a very abusive relationship too with someone I nearly married for three years. I broke off the engagement thank God. But I wonder if it had something to do with my relationship with my mother that I have felt so shit about myself all my life.

belle I suppose I am worried about if my mother died would I feel I had written off a relationship and would I regret it.

attila i am still having counselling because I suffered PND after birth of DD2, so I will talk about this more with the counsellor. There have been so many other issues to discuss but we have of course discussed my relationship with my mother. The counsellor has made me realise that everything I do is wrong in my mother's eyes, whether it's choosing a cake to make for my daughter's christening or wearing a pair of jeans she doesn't like.

Does anyone have any tips of how I deal with my mother in the long phone conversations she likes to have? That make me so frustrated and like I am regressing into a child?

Christina,

Re your comment:-

"I suppose I am worried about if my mother died would I feel I had written off a relationship and would I regret it".

You have nothing to worry about there because there has never been a relationship to start with. Ah that guilt again. Sod feeling guilty about this woman. She gave birth to you yes but that is all she ever did.

You are an adult now and if your other relations actually don't like the fact that you're not going there for Christmas (have you told them you're not going?) then so be it. Why should you solely have to carry the can for this toxic mother of yours?.

All her family have all distanced themselves physically as well as mentally from her and she cut your aunt off. What does that also tell you about your mother?. You do not have to remain around her either let alone her godawful boyfriend (who is probably out of the same damaged and dysfunctional mould from whence she came).

Your mother acts as she does likely because her own parents made her that way. You have not caused that to happen, this woman made you her scapegoat for her many ills (have you conisdered she could well have a type of personality disorder along the lines of narcissistic personality disorder). Your mother is a toxic parent who does not and never will play the rules governing "normal" family relations.

"I let myself stay in a very abusive relationship too with someone I nearly married for three years. I broke off the engagement thank God. But I wonder if it had something to do with my relationship with my mother that I have felt so shit about myself all my life".

Short answer to that last sentence is yes.

Do read the book "Toxic Parents" that I mentioned earlier.

Your family are your number 1 priority now, your eldest does not want to see her grandmother for good reason.

Re your mother and the phone here are some suggestions. Get caller ID and screen your calls. You do not have to take her calls and I would actually block her number. Change your phone number and don't give it to her. An answering machine is also good.

Attila I will read the book. I read an article about NPD a few months ago and I thought she exhibited just about every trait. IS there cure?!

"I suppose I am worried about if my mother died would I feel I had written off a relationship and would I regret it."

Sorry to be blunt - but you don't have a relationship with her anyway to even "write off" let alone regret.

As others have said what you are grieving is the relationship that you don't and never will, have.

You are right IAPJJLPJ , and I often say to DH that I feel like an orphan already.

Keep her away from your children. I'm concerned by what you're saying about her liking your second but not your first. She's playing emotional games with them, too.

Just say you've changed your mind about Christmas and won't be coming. She's changed the rules by inviting the awful boyfriend.

If she kicks up just say it's for the best.

Yes you are right. DD1 doesn't like her (she's nearly 5) and my mother says things like 'I can tell DD2 is going to be much calmer and more helpful than DD1'

She didn't like the name we gave DD2 when she was born. She came over ONCE in the first five months to say in a theatrical whisper to DD1 that 'don't you think DD2's name doesn't suit her? I don't like it at all'

I changed her name.

Oh, and that time she came round, she said she was tired and needed to sleep (like I wasn't tired, having two DDs, DD2 having reflux and not sleeping and also having PND). She arrived, I made her tea. She went to sleep for three hours. Woke up, said she could have slept even longer, put her dirty mug on TOP of the dishwasher and went home saying that she was glad she had helped out.

When I had my second MC she didn't even call to see how I was. She doesn't give a shit about me does she?

Congratulations on getting the job!

There's your reason if people ask you why you are not spending with your mother. Tell people you want a special time with your DH and DDs before you start work.

No advice about how you deal with your mother except that I chose to withdraw from mine. She never contacts me, I was always chasing her. Give your love, time and energy to those who care about you.

That's a good idea FoundWanting

Christiana, I can't say whether your mother cares about you or not, but I certainly don't think she behaves as though she does. She sounds utterly self-absorbed. She also sounds extremely envious - I bet she goes easy on your brother? That's because you were "competition" - the comments about your weight, your education etc. All of it is because she envies you. Not that this excuses her behaviour. Mothers should think their daughters are amazing, and delight in their successes IMO.

Now, I know it is hard because she is your mother (and perhaps you feel you should look after her for your father) but take a step back. If anyone else in your life behaved like this repeatedly would you tolerate it or would you cut them off?

A friend of mine has a policy that if anyone makes her feel shit repeatedly (you know how some people have that effect?) she simply walks away on the basis that, even if the fault lies with her, theirs is not going to be a healthy relationship. I really don't see why that same logic can't be applied to mothers.

If you don't want to cut her off completely, a tip for managing those conversations is set a 5 minute limit, after which you interrupt and say "I'm really sorry, but I need to go put the kids to bed/to the shops/pick up DH" and put the phone down. Then take it off the hook and give yourself a break.

Well done on the job front - I'm sure it'll make life easier to have a bit of cash and something other than home life. Concentrate on the good things for a bit, yes?

christina congratulations on your job. I dont have any advice re your toxic mum.

Use your new job as a new start in your life and leave your old life behind.

Good Luck whatever you do xx

Fantastic news on your job. I am pleased that things are looking up at last.

As for the rest of your family expecting you to turn up for Christmas - well, looks like you've got the family dog's body role well and truly covered. Come on Christina. It's not even as if your mother is on her own, for Christ sake! You have a family of your own to take care of. New job - new start, stop pleasing these people and look after yourself!

Ok, I know that is much easier said than done. I never confronted my mother about her criticisms of me - she never complimented once all my life - and if anyone did in her earshot, she would find a way to belittle my achievements. But she was an absolute saint compared to yours, she helped out so much with home - even doing my washing sometimes, babysitting when kids sick - and was amazing with the kids. I believe that was the only way she could show love - she had a difficult childhood. And I knew that deep down she was a kind woman - she just found it hard to say nice things to me. That made me sad, but didn't stop me loving her.

Your mother is something else completely Christina. I can't tell you what to do, but I do have a friend who has almost cut her poisonous mother out of her life - apart from one duty visit a year. She is so much happier for it and has never regretted it - and her mother has never shown any remorse for the appalling way she treated her.

Hope you enjoy Christmas whatever you decide.

And brilliant about the job - again. Well done, girl.