Husband being very cruel

[MoreTeaVicar]

I intervened when my DH called DD a stupid girl, he was shouting because she couldnt understand her maths and he lost his temper, admittedly she was being disinterested but thats besides the point. He told me to butt out. The he threw her book down and told her to get out of his sight. I tried talking to him and telling him it is wrong to talk to her like that, it will effect her confidence etc (she is already shy and not overly confident). This happened on sunday evening, since then he has not bothered to say goodbye to her in the morning (always through the bathroom door) as she gets ready for school and he is going off to work and he has also totally blanked me too, albeit I have also ignored him as I was talking to him on sunday evening about his behaviou when he just walked out of the room. This also happened in front of my 11yr old son. DH is a very controlling person and I feel sick and upset that he has treated us both this way, particularly my DD, any advice on what to do? I cannot face another row (he is always right) and belittles me and twists words so that everything is my fault.

I'm not the best person to comment as my own relationship is on the rocks, but I really believe in you deciding where your line of acceptable and unacceptable behavior from him is.

Think hard. Is this behaviour acceptable? Would you accept it from anyone else? A family friend? an uncle?

Decide where your line is and then explain it to DH. Explain the consequences to him too. (I know this sounds like parenting 101). But I think it works with adults too. Explain where the line is for you and the damage he is doing to your relationship and the one with his daughter and what you are going to do if it continues. (this part is up to you).

Depending on your love/goodwill for him you may want to provide a way for him to retract without losing face too much (I only suggest this because I don't know enough about him or you but this can by useful in situations where ego is at stake). In other words you ask if he has anything else on his mind which is causing him to be this way. Is there a particularly stressful situation at work at the moment? You may want to offer him help/support if he agrees he was wrong and help him come up with alternative strategies. In other words love him through this bad patch.

You say he is normally a good father, so this isn't necessarily a reason to leave him. Lot's of us have bad memories of moments when our parents were mean to us. (I'm not minimizing everyone's experiences here, I'm just pointing out there is a lot of grey).

MTV - good luck. Remember though, actions speak louder than words: he may feed you platitudes about how he'll make an effort (although I wonder if he'll try to make you and your daughter out to be the unreasonable ones) but if he doesn't change his behaviour, it shows a tremendous amount of disrespect to you and your family unit.

And if he doesn't disrespect his friends or colleagues in this way, then why is it acceptable for him to do it to you and your children?

I know others have recommended this book, but if you can get a copy of Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft, please try and do so. It really really helped me and my life has changed for the better.

I bought ther book a long time ago. Funnily he found it under the bed but didnt comment on it. If the tables had been reversed and the book was based on a woman I would have most upset and tried to talk about it to him. Good point elephantsaregreen, ego will be at stake and I am not in the market to upstage anyone or hurt them needlessly. I am more interested in getting things sorted out for the good of all.

what a pity is is not

you cannot do it all by yourself, love

If asked, do you think your kids would say they had a good father?

He sounds very much like my father. Sadly though, I had never realised this was wrong until I read this thread. But now I have a child of my own I can see how wrong it is, and I KNOW Dh would never do this to her.

OP, this isn't fair on your child. You say 'apart from his behaviour towards DD' as if it were a tiny little insignificance...it isn't. As much as I had never put 2 and 2 together about the various behaviours in my household I'm coming to realise that it turned me into a tiptoeing, scared people pleaser.

ninky, my father's influence caused me a lot of damage

I blame some of the very bad decisions I made in my teens on his treatment of me

He is abusive towards your daughter.

Repeatedly calling your child stupid isn't just "a bit mean", it's appalling. As is ignoring her.

What is this doing to her?

She's just about to become a (likely very troubled) teenager.

This is your chance to show her she has one parent who thinks she's worth something.

Please do what's best for her.

MTV

I think you need to start reading that book again.

You cannot sort this on your own; besides which he is patently not interested in sorting out his issues. I do not mean this unkindly but as his wife you are the last person who can help him. Controlling behaviours are often deeply rooted, he's not actinglike this because he is going through a "bad patch". He is doing this because he can.

Talking to him will be a waste of both your time and effort; he is not going to get the message and he won't want to hear it from you. He will either shout you down or give you empty platitudes.

Its the children I feel the most sorry for in all this. They are being emotionally harmed here by their tyrant of a father.

Ditto AnyFucker, I've done some pretty stupid things in the name of trying to keep people happy...I know where I got that habit from!

My father did this over maths too. I still wee my pants every time I need to do a percentage. I am in mid forties.

He was that damaging.

My brain would freeze and start counting to 10

My mother didnt give a flying toss.

He shouted at me and bullied me endlessly in car on way to school for not being able to do sums.

he frightened the bejeezus out of any vague maths-gene I had and certainly out of any self confidencxe.

He was also abusive, a compulsive liar and....naturelle, chairman of the PTA.

My mother should have protected us and left him. bullying bastard

She didn't of course

He came home tonight and said hello to DD, nothing more although she tells me that his expression on his face was that he was waiting for an apology! He thinks she was rude to him and so called her a stupid girl. She tells me she was not rude. He continued to totally ignore me so I did the same and later went to bed.

This morning, when I could stand it no longer, the silence and blanking is so unpleasant, I asked how long is he going to ignore me. He tells me I was rude, I didnt bother to say goodnight on sunday, correct, I didnt (why would I when he left the room when I was talking to him). He then went on to say that I was wrong to speak to him in fri=ont of children when I told him not to call DD stupid. He also is angry with me because I told him (privately) that the behaviour he displayed to DD would ensure she steered clear of men like him. Harsh, but true. Nothing gets through to him. He still insists this morning he was in the right, he says he lost his temper and stupid girl was the mildest thing he could think of, that he is wanting an apology from her and that ignoring her for 2 days is not harmful, she is not a child! OMG he is just so not open to other opinions, he can only be the one to be right.

'....would ensure she steered clear of men like him'.

Or she might get involved with men like him .

So he still thinks he is right and cant see what he's done? And he wants dd to apologise?

This is not good OP. I'm sorry but is not. I think the duty of a parent is to provide food, clothing etc, love and self-esteem. Forget holidays, piano lessons, university fees etc. Self-esteem is what they need.

My no1 rule is: no name-calling in this house! (not between siblings either).

Ok you dont want to leave him. How about show him some evidence of the effect that name calling has on dcs? Yes, he knows it of course but perhaps different to see it black and white on the paper and written by 'experts'. If he has 'many other qualities' he will spare 5 min thinking about it. If he doesn't well...then he doesn't have qualities.

Have you read Unlikely and AF posts? Do you think that you could print it and give it to him to read? And maybe other material too?

I would love for DH to read other people opinions but not so sure that he would actually do so. He considers most people to be 'morons'

she is a child

he is an adult.

he is not behaving like an adult parent.

giving him stuff to read wont help with people like this, if they not willing to listen and learn.

you need to seriously consider the future for your dd's sake.

I really feel for you.....your husband I am sorry to say does sound like he is emotionally abusing you and your children.

I never realised this was a recognised problem until I started reading MN a few weeks ago.

My husband behaves exactly as your husband does and has done so for many many years. I just thought that it was me that was the route cause of his personality. I just thought that this was how married life is. I just thought that as I was not a battered wife and he was not an alchoholic, not having affairs ect that he was a "good husband" and a "good father" BUT now I know that he isnt.

This is not about me so sorry to waffle on but you having the Lundy Bancroft book under your bed shows me that you know what he is. My husband has just found a similar book under our bed. Rather than ignore it he has called me a nutter for even thinking that he is "abusing" me. Apparantly I am the one with the problem. Like your husband he is never wrong. All my problems are in my head according to him. I just need to forget all the horrible things that he has said to me.

I have 3 children and only just realising the damage that my husband is doing to them. They cannot be allowed to listen to and feel the abuse any longer. I have to dig deep and follow my heart and head. You do too. Please be strong. You know it is not right just like I do.....let's me strong together xxx

'He consideres most people to be 'morons' .

MoreTea and worth, please read Unlikely's post again. Read the first line of her post . Then do something.

The thing is that it is difficult to accept that a major life journey (marriage and a family) have gone irredeemably wrong.

AF, you come at this from a very personal point of view, imagining how your life would have been without your father's abuse, but perhaps forgetting to add in all the other things that you would have missed out on if your mother had left your father (no, I don't mean material things, I mean a sense of having 2 parents and stable foundation, not having to move areas and so possibly schools, thus losing your friends, coping with your mum's new boyfriends, possibly having step siblings when your father remarried etc). It is perfectly natural for a woman in a relationship where her DH is not perfect (not many are) to want to try to address the problem rather than immediately bailing out, because, unlike a child, she has an eye on the wider picture and leaving does not mean that life carries on the same, minus the man....it means that EVERYTHING changes.....perhaps she will have to go out to work and so have less time with the DC etc etc

Yes, you are right in many ways, AF, that nothing is as important as a sense of self worth and that an abusive father makes that very difficult, but surely a solution that does not involve complete upheaval should be explored first?

MTV, you could phone Parentline Plus for the name of a counsellor for your DH to talk through parenting teenagers. Most men love their children, no doubt if he could be made to see the damage he is having, and be shown how to be a loving father, then he would try to change. He will have to be prepared to accept that he is sometimes wrong though. You could show him a thread started by someone else on this topic (not so personal) and get him to read the general opinions expressed about controlling male behaviour and the damage that it causes, just to prompt him to reflect...

I know this will all be difficult and frightening. Change is daunting and you have become reliant on this man. One thing is for sure, you have to try something - what have you got to lose? Good luck.

This family unit of MoreTeaVicar's is broken and they are in upheaval now. Such chaos should not be downplayed by the OP.

If this man left these people would be a damn sight happier than they are now. Okay so she would be a single parent. Better to be alone than to be badly accompanied as the French say.

He considering most people to be "morons" is another red flag and one which you cannot ignore.

Controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour.
No-one benefits from being in an abusive relationship.

Such men do not change because they do not not want to. He chooses to act like this with his family because he can. He is a bully who is probably very plausible to the outside world as many such abusive types are. It is only behind closed doors that their true nature emerges. They are NOT open to counselling, they never properly acknowledge any wrong doing nor accept any responsibility for their actions (as has already been seen by OP's H's response).
These people are dysfunctional and do not play by the "normal" rules, therefore "normal" tactics (and I do udnerstand why these have been suggested) do not work on them.

The only way forward I would argue for MTV is for her husband to actually leave the marital home. I never write that at all lightly. Her children and her good self are being damaged by the behaviour of this himself damaged individual. MTV, if you stay with this man for the long haul your children will end up despising you and will accuse you of putting him before them. You really do not want to leave them that particular legacy.

What are the children learning about relationships here?. Two words suffice - damaging lessons.

a sense of having 2 parents

they wills till ahve 2 parents

and stable foundation,

this is not stable it is hell for the DD

not having to move areas

no one says yet they have to move areas. it isnt always necessary

and so possibly schools,

ditto

thus losing your friends,

ditto - and often friendships change anyway over the years

coping with your mum's new boyfriends,

jumping the gun a bit - there is no new boyfriend on the scne right?

possibly having step siblings when your father remarried etc

possibly - but if self esteem is restored and confidence and happpy home life free of abuse then dd will be set to deal with these and other life challenges...

righ now all she is leanring is if you dont like something you call the other person stupid/ ignore them /strop ...not a good lessson for her future life in the real world.

I don't know, if everyone got divorced the first time their spouse lost his/her temper with a teenaged child, then there would not be many families left......

I am NOT saying it is acceptable BTW, just that if it is not part of a pattern, it is not, in and of itself, a reason to immediately separate.

I agree that it is worrying if your DH says that everyone else is a moron - that is very narcissistic and a difficult mindset to shift. Do you have any friends that DH respects? Can you gain any leverage that way?

That's quite a simplistic view though. Losing your temper once, and it being out of character and you apologising is one thing, being persistently controlling, abusive and sulky is another.

I think there is a lot of history here, nobody in a happy relationship would leave over a single argument - if your marriage was strong you'd talk it through and work it out. This clearly isn't a happy relationship though, and the OP has a slightly rocky path ahead whichever direction she chooses. One of them might lead to some future happiness though, and a life free of this horrible tension - I know which one I would (and did!) take.

notsocrates, when I was a child, I used to wish every day that I didn't have to live with my father. I have no respect for either of them. I still look at the pair of them now, 40 years on, and wish that they would split up so that

1. my mother would finally find some peace of mind

2. I don't have to take any responsibility for my aging parents...it is going to kill me

when people post on here, they are at the end of their tether after years of the same pattern with no end in sight

please don't tell me that you are one of those "made your bed, you must lie in it" "marriage is for life" "you must support your man and bend over backwards to appease him (but gloss over your kids unhappiness.." kinds of posters

those kinds of posters who say that MN is filled with man-hating women whose sole wish is to split up marriages "after the first incident"

this is not the first incident

if it was, she would not be here, with this OP

You cannot shift the mindset of a person like this. He will refuse parental training (why the fuck would he need it...!!!, and the counsellors are morons anyway...)

I appreciate you are trying to see the other side...but to me, there is no other side.

He is abusive or he is not. He will seek help or he will not.

OP cannot control his interactions with the children. If she deems them unacceptable, she should leave him, for their sakes, and for her own.