Would you date a 32 year old man whose longest term relationship was 8 mos.? He's slept w/ 20 women and says he is almost always the one to leave.

[Banks]

When he says that kind of thing, he's basically telling me that there's no hope, right?

By the by, this is kind of a follow up to this post: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1095799-I-have-been-seeing-a-guy-for-1-5-months-He-still-doesnt-know-Im-divorcing

Yesterday I told the guy I've been seeing for a little over a month and a half that I'm getting a divorce. I'd been freaking out about having concealed it from him but when I told him he said it was ok, that it didn't matter or change things. Which was a relief. But then it opened up the past relationship discussion and he told me what you read in the subject line-- that he's never had a real LTR (except for the 8 month one where she dumped him) and that he normally ends up being the one to leave.

The trickier part of this situation is that we both have plans to leave the country soon. I was intending to go at the end of Jan. before I met him. Now that I am very interested in him, I was thinking about staying. He has to leave at the end of May as his visa is up (he's Icelandic and has been in the States for 7 years and has been denied an additional extension). He has been applying for positions all over the EU.

As way of background about him, he is brilliant. He's a Fulbright scholar who is working on a post doc in theoretical physics at a very prestigious university. His work is his whole life. He literally spends anywhere from 80-100 hours a week on it. He is very sweet and thoughtful and very, very very good in bed but is -extremely- emotionally closed off. He likes to keep little secrets (e.g. the other day I asked him how to properly pronounce his weird Icelandic name and he said it was secret, ha). We spend most of our time together talking about random things that are happening in the world, big political concepts, his work, etc. There is never really any talk of emotions.

My problem is that I tend to mirror the person I'm with so I can't really bring myself to break the emotional ice. Yesterday I wanted to tell him how I felt about him-- that I fell in love at first sight and that I want to be with him wherever he ends up but I couldn't.

I have no idea how to proceed with this. Sorry if this makes no sense and thanks for reading anyway. I'm so sad right now and I'm not even sure why.

HowsTheSerenity, Aw. I'm sure it'll happen. Just don't freak out next time and all will be well. The dating thing does really really suck though, doesn't it?

My darling brother is 46 and has never had relationship longer than 6 months.
Simply- he has never met the right person and has been very busy with work. No one could be more honest, committed and caring- to the right person. He has had periods of his life- years in fact- when he has never had any women in them- not out of choice but it gets harder to met people. Since he began intermet dating he has been dumped twice by 2 women he really liked but they decided not enough chemistry.

In your case, I don't think the lack of a long relationship is here or there. What does ring bells is his inability to open up.
20 partners in bed is prob about average- 1-2 a year since 16 maybe?

You need to learn to be more assertive instead of being a chameleon and taking the lead form others.
If you can't take risks by opening up, how can you expect him to?

I think you should gently say you will miss him etc and see what pans out- it is very early days- only 6 weeks.

I think you should go for it but play it as cool as you can. At least you know what he's like.

I would date him if I was just wanting an ejoyable time and not planning weddings and happy ever afters. We could all get run over by a bus tomorrow. It's impossible to tell you whether or not to change your plans for him. It doesn't sound as though he is changing his for you.

DP slept with many, many women (more than your DP) and never had a proper relationship. Met him when he was nearing 40. We've been together for 4 years now and have a child.

Other issues- I don't know.

Nothing would put me off apart from the the 80-100 hours - seriously, how could he be a real partner (and father) if you see him for a few hours a week?

He sounds fun to date but (as others has said) not a keeper. The only way it would work is if he changed who he is, and let's face it, that's not really a healthy way to go into a relationship is it?

Howstheserenity - do you like to keep secrets about stupid stuff, are you emotionally closed off, would you not care at all - not even remotely interested - that someone is just about to get a divorce, not even discuss what is going to happen when you are both about to leave the country.... and still think the relationship meant something?

I'm not clear if it's the fact that she's getting a divorce that's the issue or the fact that she hadn't told him she was married. If the latter then the divorce details wouldn't register yet he'd just be thinking "oh she's married, complicated" or I would if I were him.

the one thing that stands out is the fact he works 80/100 a week and he loves his career. i cant help but wonder how many of his previous women have given him a hard time over the fact he works so hard and have tried to change him.he works hard are you able to cope with that,if so just take one day at a time and enjoy his company.

I think then if you are looking to find someone to settle down with then he's definitely not the one. Its probably the 'life's work' type thing he's doing. He's genuinely unusually clever and achieving so I wouldn't think him mean or unreasonable to not want to deviate from that and become a 'house cat'.

However, he sounds like a fantastic person to know and to spend some time with in this part of your life. You are still going through a divorce so why not just enjoy his sparkling mind and body. He sounds like he could be a real tonic in fact!

Anyman who boasts about dating lots of women a clearly hasnt been with a lot of women and b is a total wa..er!

When I met DH he was 32 and had never had a LTR. We have been together for 12 years, married for 9 and have 3 DC. So don't write him off just because of that.

AGree with DS above, but I would write him off for the other things he has told you. Past behaviour is the best indication of future behaviour - so listen to him.

Some native-Icelander views for you if it helps :)
First of all, in general Icelanders are not at all like Norwegians and more....err mad passionate than Scandinavians in general (Iceland is not part of Scandinavia), so I wouldn´t use that as an "excuse."

However, I´m married to a physicist (not Icelandic) and know many more - they can tend to be a bit "cerebral". However, if he´s good in bed and has emotions (like the father and ex-girlfriend heartbreaks indicate), I´d say he´s just immature for his age and shy, rather than emotionally unavailable or weird (I could be wrong of course). I think you definitely should talk to him about where you are going with the relationship. I wouldn´t talk about "love at first sight" (that advice regardless of culture!). Just say: "I´m really into you and I´d like us to stay together, how do you feel?" or words to that effect. Ask him questions and let him answer. Icelandic men are very used to strong assertive women, so he won´t be freaked out on that account at least.

I find that Icelandic males have this weird sense of humor that they revel in - that "secret" thing could be a part of this. Last time I was home I really noticed this - for instance a friend´s husband introduced his twin brother called Emil as "his retarded uncle Gorm"....all with a very straight face and nobody batted an eye, including my friend. Hmm, I guess you had to be there ;)
You can also just try to say to him that you find this annoying and could he stop? Another explanation could be that HE finds annoying to be expected to pronounce stuff/ talk about being Icelandic/ his past etc all the time. I´ve lived abroad half my life and I can´t express strongly enough how tiring it can be to asked the same questions over and over again, and to be asked "how do you say this, how do you say that?" This happens WAY more to an "exotic" Icelander than it would ever do to the British/Americans or other well-known cultures.

Also, having slept with 20 women when you are Icelandic and 32 is NOTHING - he´s practically a virgin! Icelanders are much more promiscuous than the British/Americans, although we like to think about it as just being free of repression/guilt etc :D. There just aren´t as many hang-ups at all about sex, and although many Icelanders classify themselves as religious, they are IMO heathen and more free of the whole church-sin-guilt-punishment thing.

Anyway, you have to be able to express what you want yourself and take that risk - he or anybody else cannot do this for you. I´d think an inability on your side to be assertive about your feelings (and the fact that you "mirror" people you are with) could be more damning to this or any relationship than his shortcomings. Could there be any truth in that?

Vertu blessuð og sæl, gangi þér vel!

purplepeony, Thanks for your insight re: your own brother. I agree that I need to be more assertive with him. I have already tried the "hm, I think I'll really miss you" thing and gotten no response.

GetTheXmasPartyStarted, About the working a ton-- he actually has repeatedly said when I, for example, bring up how hard it must be for his colleagues to have families that "you make the time for it because it's important". So that is one thing. I think he would try his best to do so...

RudeEnglishLady, There is a part of me that thinks that I could deal with him working so much. I really respect his work and I do like some time alone. I've also been in that situation before and I somewhat know how to deal with it... But I also know how hard it can be at times.

Mudandmayhem, I think that sometimes but then I also think that when he was younger and working so hard he just couldn't make the time. Now that he's a bit older, perhaps he's trying to settle down a bit. I dunno.

TheMightyMarge, A native Icelander's perspective is almost literally invaluable here! Thank you so so much for chiming in.

It's very interesting to note how different Icelanders are from Norwegians. I guess I just assumed that they were almost MORE like Norwegians than Norwegians themselves based solely on the language having been preserved from old Norse. Silly, I know, but I had no other touchstone. So thanks for correcting me.

I appreciate your positive take on the situation. That he's just a bit newish to the whole thing due to having been stuck in school for so long is my best hope. I am glad to know that Icelandic men are used to assertive women as that is how I naturally am. I guess I just like him so much I got scared and have been being very cautious. I will try to get over that next time I see him. Do you think I could even do it on the phone?

And he DEFINIETLY has a weird sense of humor. I have a strange one, too, so I get most of it. In fact, I giggled quite a lot at the thought of calling your twin brother "retarded uncle Gorm" hahaha. I just feel like the secrets thing is a little off for some reason... Like he's putting up a barrier. I don't find it that annoying, really, in that it pisses me off-- it's more like I find it a little hurtful that he closes me out. Maybe I should just say that someday I want to know his secrets?

And, maybe you're right, and that being sick of objectified as the exotic other is part of why he acts like that. I am also half Indian and I sometimes get SO damn annoyed when people expect me to speak Hindi or whatnot (especially since I don't) so I can understand that, even though I didn't really think of it at the outset. I just ask those questions to be respectful of where he's coming from.

LOL, 20 women is practically virginal? That sorta blows my mind but I'm glad to hear it! That's sorta what he said too-- when he told me he said that it was very normal for a Nordic man. I guess I haven't asked most of my other Nordic male friends their numbers so I had nothing to compare it to.

I guess I will have to lead on this. The thing is that if he really liked me, as he sorta appears to, wouldn't he take the lead? That is part of what's hanging me up-- I don't want to put myself out there and be rejected, basically. But it's starting to seem like if I don't, his passivity might make that decision for us so I kinda have to.

You are right that I have to be more assertive and more myself. It is a bad habit to mirror people and I have to start shaking that, even though it's sorta the safest thing to do in the early stages. So, yes, there is definitely truth in that.

Thanks so much for writing so much. I found it very helpful indeed.

Þúsund þakkir fyrir hjálpina! (I'm not sure if that's right, it's straight from Google Translate. :) )

Sounds like terribly hard work. I've always been of the mind that romantic relationships should be simple - ie no games of does he or doesn't he, when will he call, when should I call, etc. If it's difficult at the beginning, I fear what it will be like a couple of years down the road.

I don't think 20 is alot of people to sleep with if you haven't got married early. people who wait until they are older before settling down are likely to have slept with more people than those marrying at 20. I've slept with over 20 men and don't consider that alot considering the amount of time I was single.

FFS! Long term relationships are NOT COMPULSORY and it is perfectly OK not to want one or to engage in them. THis man is telling you he doesn;t want to commit to you. LISTEN to him rather than trying to claim that there's something wrong with him and you're going to try to fix it.
ANd take a look at yourself, as well. You are divorcing a bad partner, why the desperate rush for another relationship? Make a life for yourself instead of looking for a man to 'complete' you.

I am 46 and while I have had long-ish term relationships (aroun the 2 year mark in a couple of cases) I have never lived with a partner or married. ANd I never will because I simply don't want to. Anyone trying to 'get me to open up/commit' after I had told them that I do not want a monogamous relationship or a long term one of any kind would be told to fuck right off and dumped on the spot.

SGB- it's well known here that you want to be single and not monogamous but you must admit surely that it is not wrong to want otehrwise?
Most people do- maybe they are all deluded and you are right, but the general consensus is that most people want to be loved, and by having one primary relationship.

Evidence shows that people who are in a committed relationship live longer and have better health- physically and emotionally.

It's not wrong for the OP to want this, any more than it's wrong for you to choose what you want.

It's not a case of having a man to "complete her".

OP it's such early days- you really have to see what happens.

It's ot wrong for the OP to want a committed relationship, it is wrong to think that she's entitled to one with this particular man and that it's a fault in him not to want to oblige her.
I would also wonder about that 'evidence' that committed relationships make you live longer (given that two women a week are murdered by their partners). How many people was the study based on and what were the controls? For instance, was it a self-selecting survey, and did they include unhappy relationships as well as satisfactory ones?

just going to read the rest of the thread, but.. his name isn't birkir is it?

Whilst I usually struggle to understand your outlook, SGB, you are right here. I feel it is wrong to go into a relationship already determined to change someone. We all change and adjust a little when in a relationship as we get used to living / being together, but to want someone to change fundamentally is a recipe for disaster imo.

Date? Yes. Fall in love and change life plans? No. Not without feedback that this is definitely what he wanted too, and it doesn't sound at all like you're getting that, sorry.

Hi again Banks

Norwegian-Indian: now that is pretty exotic!! :o

He does sound slightly hard work and I think you should concentrate on figuring out if he is "that into you" and worry about his performance in future role as husband/father when and if you get there. He will certainly have been raised in a culture where men pull their weight around the house and with childcare, so I´d say it won´t be a huge problem.

My advice would definitely be to TALK to him, say that you´re interested to see if you could continue your relationship long-distance, aiming towards being together again if all goes to plan. I´d do it face-to-face rather than on the phone. Somethings just need to be done, and if you´re an adult, in an adult way ;) (sorry, don´t mean to matronize you!!).

My husband was a bit of hard work to start with, always working, not sure he wanted to commit etc, and TBH the only way it worked out for us was by me stating what I wanted and be true to myself. He came to respect that a lot and to not wanting to loose me (extremely abbreviated version) and now he is a superb husband and father. We´ve been married for 10 years and together for 12 and going super strong.
I don´t agree that a bit of difficulty at the beginning means that the relationship is doomed (depends on the type and severity of difficulties, obv.). Brainy guy that´s good in bed is not the worst prospect.... ;)

Þúsind þakkir fyrir hjálpina was correct - Verði þér að góðu!

Also 'love' is not magic dust you can sprinkle on someone else and make them return it. The fact that you love someone is your problem, it doesn't mean they have to do anything or even speak to you if they don't want to.