Summit meeting with Ex IL's

[Isetan]

Background: Ex has been convicted and imprisoned for two years for attacking me in front of our 3 year old DD. I told Ex IL's that I didn't want contact between DD and Ex until he had been counselled and the first few sessions supervised (this was suggested by the fantastic psychologist team supporting DD and me). Ex IL's ignored this on two occasions and allowed telephone contact (he has been in prison since the day of the attack), I had to make a four hour round trip to retrieve DD from their house, haven't spoken for 4 months .

Now: At my request child psychologist team have organised a meeting with them and me where they (psychologist team) will again tell Ex IL's why they have recommended the counselling route.

I realise that the dysfunctional behaviour displayed by Ex was in many ways learnt from his parents and I have no wish in maintaining a relationship with these people other than supporting my DD in having contact with them.

The last time I saw Ex IL's was at the trial of their son, I didn't speak to them but I was surprised that I felt nauseous being in the same space as them.

I guess I want advice on how to keep strong and focussed when I meet them and their daughter (not to sure if her coming is a good idea, she could be the voice of reason or their cheerleader).

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

My advice would be to keep the professionals involved and take their advice and let them help you.

I'm sorry I don't have any useful advice but I am wondering why (particularly if you think some of your ex's behaviour was a result of his parents and also given the fact that he is your EX) you feel your daughter will benefit from having any relationship at all with these people? Why would it be a good thing for her? And how on earth can it ever be good for you to know that she is spending time with people who are ignoring your very reasonable instructions?

You are under no legal obligation to let these people see your DD at all - the only person who could enforce any kind of contact on DD is her father and even then you can insist on it being supervised only (the fact that he assaulted you badly enough to get two years inside means that judge, courts etc will take your side on this).
As your XILs clearly think you are an unreasonable bitch and their wishes override yours, just cut contact with them.

Agree with the others. Why are you so keen for your DD to have a relationship with these people?

Do the psychologists think it is important for her?

Yes, just cut contact. Why inflict horrible people on your DD? What possible benefit can there be in her having a relationship with people who messed up their own child so badly, and who openly disrespect you?

If you were feeling exceptionally gracious you could give them one chance and tell them that is what they are getting. One strike and you're out. I'm not sure I'd bother though TBH. I am 100% in favour of maintaining contact with grandparents,other family members etc UNLESS they are abusive/horrible and likely to cause the child more harm than good. It sounds like they are the type.

As they've already ignored you I would leave well alone. I can't see how a relationship with them will benefit your child?

Isetan,

Sorry but what were you thinking?.
All this will get you precisely nowhere; these toxic people are never going to be reasonable.

Violent men as well do not respond to counselling; infact this can justify the abuse meted out in their own mind.

Best to just cut contact with them; you are under no obligation to them. Why would you want your DD to have contact with them when you understandably do not?. Is it because you want her to have grandparents in her life?. Dysfunctional grandparents are actually worse than having none at all; your DD will get nothing positive from these people. They have already shown that they are prepared to override your wishes.

I agree with others - just cancel contact.

If they need a summit meeting to understand why their behaviour is wrong, then it's already a pointless exercise when I'm sure they'll make the right noises then ignore your (reasonable) wishes at the first given opportunity.

They have no legal - and no moral - right to see your DD. Cut all contact - they are not a good influence on your DD and they ignored your wishes.

Tough shit I say. Serves them right for raising a son who likes hitting women.

Easy there tigers, up until the attack they were O.K. What I meant about learnt behaviour (the non-violent behaviour that Ex displayed): agreeing to things that they don't agree with and then doing the complete opposite , asking DD if she wanted to stay with them for a holiday instead of asking me even though I was in the room, making a point of asking about DD's bed time and then completely ignoring it .

They have always shown a deep affection for DD and I know DD misses them and the extended family (EX MIL is 1 of 14). I can see they don't care for me and I'm not bothered by that, we are too different generationally and culturally.

I know I am under no legal obligation to let them see her and hopefully this meeting will encourage them (wishful thinking maybe) that if they don't buck there idea up then I won't be trying again.

If DD doesn't end up having a relationship with them at least I can say and prove that I tried. I have a non-existent relationship with my family and I really won't rule out DD having a relationship with this one until I absolutely have to.

I have written down what I want to say and I hope that I won't get drawn into any attacks that they may launch against me.

This may be the last time they have an opportunity of having contact with DD, I am applying for sole custody and if I get it then I am gone, moving back to the UK.

I can see why you would want your DD to see them if she loves them and they have not (so far) mistreated her. However, they clearly come from a culture/mindset/superstition that thinks women are men's property and second class, so they think that it's OK for your H to have beaten you up and that you are just making a fuss about nothing because you are unimportant therefore they are likely to try to enforce contact between your DD and her ringpiece of a father despite the fact that she may fear and hate him for his violence towards you. This won't do her any good.

Since my H died my SIL's attempted to dictate terms and conditions when they wanted to see me and the kids. One SIL in particular is as narcissitic as my late H. I have politely told her to fuck off: I got out of one horrendously controlling relationship by default and was not prepared to enter another, least of all with someone whom behaved in exactly the same way as my H.

They are also culturally different

Blood is thicker than water and despite my SILs seeing with their own eyes and experiencing my Hs treatment of me they have chosen to tell me I have no respect for them because I wouldn't dance to their tune.

I am steering very clear

They also all give me nausea. I wouldn't bother if I were you.

why dont you cut contact, wait til you know for sure if you can move back to UK?
then you know if this is start / continuation of regular contact or really a last goodbye .... til perhaps when she is older.

and i think YOUR mental health (the anxiety you feel at being in same room with them) has to be taken into consideration - you wont be much use to DD if you go under....

Unless you are doing this in order to strengthen your case for sole custody, I have to say I don't think you should. Your dd needs to have a strong, stable mother, and seeing these people will upset you terribly. Usually I despise women who use that argument against contact when the ex is normal, but your situation is not, and your extreme reaction is completely understandable. Why expose yourself, and by extension your dd, to it?

Increasingly, I am under no illusion that they will try all sorts of emotional blackmail to get what they want. Gone are the days when I felt sorry for them and so their old tricks will not work. Separate from the meeting with the Ex IL's I have also requested that there be a meeting between my Ex and DD this will be supervised and before these meetings he will be counselled as how to respond to DD (the psychologist team have firmly said that he apologise to her and accept responsibility for his actions as a condition), I will not be present at this or subsequent meetings.

The first time my Ex hit me was last year, which is the same day I ended it. It has taken more than a year and counting to resolve our financial and legal issues. Fast forward to June this year where I tried to get him to commit to a fixed visitation schedule (he worked overseas and was only in the country for two weekends of the month) this was with the help of a mediator. The meeting deteriorated and nothing was resolved, the following morning he tried to remove her from the house without prior agreement and when I said no he grabbed DD and strangled me with one hand until I was unconscious.

There were only two incidents of violence (two incidents to many), I'm saying this as I think that some of you think that maybe my determination to make contact with these people reflects the warped thinking of a victim of sustained DV.

This man will be out in less than a year, right now I have the space and support to do things my way and of course it won't do my petition for sole custody any harm either.

I am grateful and have taken all your responses into account and they have helped in my "don't take no crap" resolve.

I just wanted advice of how to keep it together during the meeting because I can see them saying something to rile me and me giving them an un-edited piece of my mind.

Don't bother. Can't see anything positive in it for your child or you.

"Separate from the meeting with the Ex IL's I have also requested that there be a meeting between my Ex and DD this will be supervised and before these meetings he will be counselled as how to respond to DD (the psychologist team have firmly said that he apologise to her and accept responsibility for his actions as a condition), I will not be present at this or subsequent meetings".

Such meetings rarely go well even if your ex or the ils bothered to show. The notion of the pysch team firmly saying that he apologises to her and accepting responsibility is actually laughable if it was not so tragic.

The meeting with the ex ils is a bad idea all round but the second meeting planned is a bad idea in a league of its own.

You yourself have a non existant relationship with your family. I put it to you that your inherent desire for your DD to have some family as you do not may actually be clouding your own judgment here.

May I ask what continent you reside in?.

Your 3 year old DD is not old enough to fully understand and will readily accept any adult no matter how dysfunctional. She will undoubtedly wonder where you are if you are not there. I would strongly urge you not to put either your or your DD through any of the above as no good will come of it.

Goodness alone knows what the so called professionals are thinking here; they are playing with people's lives. They to my mind are clueless. Your DD and you stand to be the ones who will be the most hurt out of all this sorry mess.

My SIL saw me with two black eyes ( when I put a stop to him attempting to move in another woman ) knew my H was trying to move the OW in and STILL she wanted me to work things out. Absolute fucking nonsense. I told her to get a reality check and asked her what she would say to her best friend if she came round and told the story I had to tell.

Remember the man that tried to kill you is their son, and I'm sure they still love him and I would put money on the fact that they think you are probably somewhat to blame for what happened.

RUN and dont feel guilty, your EX put them all in this position the nasty piece of work

Atilla,I live in The Netherlands and as for the professionals, I think they are doing a great job of listening and supporting me and offering their professional opinion when necessary. I think that the estrangement from my family definately influences my efforts in trying to involve them in DD's life but I don't believe my judgement is clouded. My priority is DD and as her advocate I have to act in a way that is in her best interests and not let their treatment of me cloud my behaviour. The merest hint of behaviour that could negatively impact her and I'll get all mama bear on their ass and they won't see us for dust.

As I said before I need to make the effort for DD's sake and if it doesn't work out, at least I know I tried.

The meting with Ex IL's is on Thursday I'll report back after.

I dont either think the meetings sound like a good idea. I am sure these people will make all the right noises, and come across very sensible with the professional, and this may not exactly strengthen your case? I am keen to hear the outcome though.

I hope you get sole custody sorted asap, so you can move back to the uk with your dd.

The meeting/s with the Ex IL's will also be in the presence of the psychologist team, I won't be alone with them and my head is firmly screwed on. The meeting has an agenda and is limited to one hour and I even have a translator (my Dutch deserts me under stress). The Ex-IL's will be briefed on the work the psychologist team has done with DD before I arrive and I have even written a little statement so that I get my point across without being sidetracked.

I hear what you are all saying but the fact is if I don't try I know I'll regret it and I have no intention of carrying that guilt around. There will be no un-supervised contact between DD with any of these people.