Summit meeting with Ex IL's

[Isetan]

Background: Ex has been convicted and imprisoned for two years for attacking me in front of our 3 year old DD. I told Ex IL's that I didn't want contact between DD and Ex until he had been counselled and the first few sessions supervised (this was suggested by the fantastic psychologist team supporting DD and me). Ex IL's ignored this on two occasions and allowed telephone contact (he has been in prison since the day of the attack), I had to make a four hour round trip to retrieve DD from their house, haven't spoken for 4 months .

Now: At my request child psychologist team have organised a meeting with them and me where they (psychologist team) will again tell Ex IL's why they have recommended the counselling route.

I realise that the dysfunctional behaviour displayed by Ex was in many ways learnt from his parents and I have no wish in maintaining a relationship with these people other than supporting my DD in having contact with them.

The last time I saw Ex IL's was at the trial of their son, I didn't speak to them but I was surprised that I felt nauseous being in the same space as them.

I guess I want advice on how to keep strong and focussed when I meet them and their daughter (not to sure if her coming is a good idea, she could be the voice of reason or their cheerleader).

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

WHy do women always feel guilty? I know I did but why do we when clearly its someone elses fault....

"There were only two incidents of violence "

there were two incidents, the second he tried to kill you. there is no "only" in that....

it only takes one icident to kill. doesnt matter if none before that.

reading between the lines and going thru years (yes years now, since early 2008 ) of trying to set contact schedules and solve financial mattters after separation - i think actually this is sustained DV albeit more domestic abuse/emotional abuse - the attempts to continue to control the situation and to cause trouble and stress...

i wonder if you can ask your psych team for studies and research papers on visitation by children to father who has abused the mother in fornt of them, what value that has etc. also apology to a 3 year old for this? surely too much for a 3 year old even on most simple level...

my exP was advised by judge to apologise for his violent behaviour in front of them...scaring them, holding us hostage, refusing to leave, smashing his fist thru a door... he wrote a letter "sorri that i was depressed, the good news is i am better now". he ahs never apologised for specific behaviour (indeed he has jsutified it saying "well you amde me mad".

eliciting an apology from a perpretrator -well that's truly difficult, maybe you can ask psych to get the words he will use from him...but how can you be sure on the day he wont say - before he can be stoppped "your mother made me do it i just wanted to be with you"

you cannot be at all sure how he will act with her, what eh will say. his "apology" may be way different from what you or I might think is appropriate..and whatever is worked out agreeed beforehand means nothing...

i understand your wish to do this visit but please think again, and ask for papers, research on other such cases and the benefits of visitation to the perpetrator fatehr who tried to kill the mother...

i am sure the team are supporting you - and if you request this they will go along with you - but have you asked them if they really think it is a good idea?

is it really in DD's best interest to visit with her father? is it really in her best interests to have visits with grandparents, and to risk your own emotional well being? to set yourself up - however much you get support now the psychs arent going to be there the next time...and IL's may hold it against you in ways you will never know...

whatever the IL's say on the record - your experience off the record since the incident has been different...their priority and ties are with their DS...

too much ifs and unknowns with this...

one wants to beleive the good in people....but sometimes is better to not give the benefit of the doubt..

Sod feeling guilty; guilt is a word that should be banned from your vocabulary. You cannot reason with such individuals; the pysch team should realise that as well.

I wish you well Thursday, would appreciate an update when you can.

I would put money on it that the ex ILs will not turn up or if they do will arrive late. If they do turn up they will likely protest against your conduct bitterly and quell any reasoned argument that is put to them. They won't want to hear it and they will always back their son. They could equally too say one thing and mean another (which is also very likely given their past form).

Have you asked the pysch team outright if they think these meetings are actually a good idea?. They will go along with your wishes but you could well be setting your own self up for a hard knock here.

OP - I have no experience on which to draw but, for what its worth, I think you are approaching this meeting with the right attitude.
You are trying what is best for your daughter, you have prepared as much as you can, the written statement is a GREAT idea and will keep you focussed (sp?)
If you go in knowing that your ILs will be trying to hurt you and derail things then you are well prepared.
I understand where all other posters are coming from in saying don't go, but I also understand that you need to feel that you have done everything possible.
Good luck for thursday, let us know how it goes.

I think you're doing the right thing as well. We're a bunch of unqualified strangers on the internet - you're getting a lot of professional help and support, and have your eye on what your dd needs and what will best help your case for sole custody. Good luck with the meeting, and if you feel so inclined do tell us how it went. Will be thinking of you - and am so impressed by your courage.

Thansks loujay, although I wasn't going to change my mind I was beginning to question my resolve. I get where the other posters are coming from too but I just have to try. Its that thing about trying to be a good parent, where you try to be their best advocate and try and answer the questions her future self might ask.

As for the sole custody petition I am meeting with my lawyer to discuss its progress (BTW she is in the loop about Thursday's meeting too). I am very lucky in that I have a lot of professional and practical support and I wouldn't even contemplate either meeting if I couldn't handle it or the possible repercussions.

For DD the last memory of her father was him being violent to her mother, she initially had lots of questions and I tried to answer them as truthfully (age appropriate) as possible. For her she must think her Dad has fallen off the face of the planet, he can offer her a resolution opportunity that neither me the professional can. Of course, if he screws-up we will be there and I won't give him another opportunity but I honestly feel I will be failing her (damn those mothering instincts can be strong) if I didn't try. I have heard and read that children, even very young ones, try to assume responsibility for the negative actions of adults. This is an opportunity where he can attempt to reassure her that it wasn't her fault and that he is responsible.

"This is an opportunity where he can attempt to reassure her that it wasn't her fault and that he is responsible".

You know him after all but do you seriously think he is at all going to try and tell his Dd that and without you present?.

All these meetings could go very wrong and very fast too. I hope this works out but I do have serious misgivings over this whole thing. I still think your good intentions re wanting to do the "right thing" by your DD here are actually misguided. These people you are dealing with seem not at all open to any reasoned argument.

I'm back. Thanks for all your input, it may have appeared that I wasn't taking a blind bit of notice but it was going in, promise.

Well it got off to a shambolic start, the translator was late and not so great and the grandparents liaison was out sick. I hoped that the grandparents would acknowledge what they had done, namely, permitting the second phone call between DD and her father after I had expressly said that this was not to happen. I now realise that I wasn't expecting it but I had hoped they would.

There appeared to be confusion between the grandparents over how many phone conversations had actually taken place between their son and DD and the grandmother acknowledged that when their son called she simply handed the phone to DD "in the stress of the moment". Their assertion that it was a misunderstanding rings hollow and I think that they/ she isn't capable of accepting that their/her actions have and will continue to play a role in the type relationship they have with their grand daughter. Which leads me to conclude that they can/ will not modify their behaviour, which in turn, makes it difficult for me to establish a foundation for trust.

I am happy, for now, to establish Skype video chats with DD and her grandparents. However, the chats are between them (no other persons) and DD, they are not to make visitation requests on behalf of other family members and they are not a mouthpiece for their son. It is not my intention to micro manage the contact between DD and her grandparents but I just want to make it clear that I will not be ambushed/ pressured into doing things.

If I'm generous I'll accept that their actions have no malicious intent but that does not mean I will accept or expose myself to disrespectful behaviour. I do not know if I'll ever be able to trust them again but I am open to the possibility.

So it wasn't a disaster as I didn't have high expectations in the first place and it was reassuring that others had witnessed their dysfunction and that it wasn't only in my head.

I spoke to my lawyer about my petition for sole custody and initially she wasn't hopeful but I made it clear that I feared, and expected he would try to control me through DD. My lawyer said that he would try and use my desire to move back to the UK as a basis for my request for sole custody to be denied. So no more mentioning of moving back to the UK (this doesn't mean I'm not still preparing for the move, I'm just gonna act dumb and not mention it). I am less confident about sole custody being granted, but fingers crossed.

His parents disclosed that DD's father wanted to be relocated to a prison closer to them, which made me , as me and the psychological team were trying to make the visit between DD and him Ex happen, him moving to the other end of the country makes it bloody difficult, ahhhh!! what a f*wit. Lawyer has been instructed to get him to formally respond to the visitation proposal sent to him nearly two months ago.