do people have a right to fantasy?

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How ever it may make the other party feel?

Whether that be a fantasy of chatting to sluts who whore themselves out on the internet or dressing up or whatever. Is it a persons right to be able to live it out??

I'm trying to rationalise something that happened over the weekend, I guess I'm looking for some MN feedback to help me. I am a namechanger; I'm embarrased to admit.

Well, it is allowed as long as it is not harmful or disrespectful to anyone.
Personally, I have fantasies that I live out in my head, but I wouldn't want anyone else to know them. I'm sure DH has too (though his may not include Ant and Dec) [shame]

Hope you're okay OP.

fantasy - yes. living it out - no.

There's what happens in your head, and there's what you do about it - if anything. Which are we talking about here? Thoughts or actions?

Fantasy is all in the mind, and people have a right to think what they want. How they behave, however, may cost them their relationship, if they step over pre-agreed boundaries. If you didn't initially agree any sorts of dealbreakers that would spell the end of the relationship, you might want to reconsider, both the relationship and the lack of clarity about what is and isn't okay for both parties.

But yeah, basically what goes on in peoples head is sacrosanct, you can't police that. How they behave - if you don't like it, you can get up and walk. Not everyone is interested in changing their behaviour, or can change. So you can ask them to change their outer behaviour, but they may turn around and say 'No.' Or just 'I can't.'

First I think you need to define 'fantasy'.

Because really, fantasy is something that goes on in your mind, and (unless consensual) has no bearing on anyone else.

If you are talking about actual behaviour, something being acted on in some way then that is different.

I'm assuming its something like your dh has been using those professional webcam laydees?

Whether or not that is ok is down to how these things are defined in your relationship. I would imagine most people would not be comfortable with that.

Personally I'd be pretty disgusted to be with someone who thinks paying for complete strangers to flash their body at them over the web is ok. He's be gone, very fast, on the basis of being a fucking loser.

I think we all have fantasies but they usually stay just that, I suppose several problems could arise if you live it out.

-If your fantasy invoves your own OH/DP it might involve them having to do something they do not like to satisfie it so not good.

-If it involves another person to live it out it is no less than cheating IMHO.

I hope you are ok OP.

It depends, a lot, on what the person is actually doing, or wants to do. If this is a person whose fantasy involves pretending to be Iggle Piggle and Makka Pakka from the Night Garden (deliberately choosing innocuous example) then there is nothing wrong with asking a partner to join in and act out the fantasy as there is nothing wrong in asking a partner to join in any kind of sexual activity, as long as you accept that the partner has the right to refuse.

If it is that your partner has been using webcam sex sites, then in some people's opinion, this comes under the category of fantasy as there is no physical connection between the webcam performer and the paying viewer; also, the performer is almost certainly playing a character rather than responding as though s/he is really connecting with the viewer. However, some people consider that this does count as infidelity - you need to discuss it with your partner as both opinions are valid and if his is not the same as yours you need to explain to him and give him a chance to explain to you how you both feel before either asking him to stop or appreciating that it doesn;t actualy mean he's going to have real flesh-on-flesh sex with someone else.
But he may refuse to stop, and if so you then have to decide whether to accept this or not because you an't force someone into changing behaviour just because you don't like it.

The whole point of fantasy is that it's only in your head - if you act it out then it isn't a fantasy.

You can imagine anything in a fantasy, that is what makes them so powerful and arousing, it doesn't matter how bizzare or shocking - I don't understand people wanting to "act them out", the reality can never match up in any case. It's like your favourite book, if it's done as a film it's never the same as in your head, there's usually no comparison.

People who want to live out their fantasies at the expense of their partner's feelings are incredibly selfish - if you know your behaviour is hugely distressing and disrespecting to your partner, why would you even want to continue?

"Is it a persons right to be able to live it out??"

No, no person has a right to live out their fantasies.

As long as fantasies stay firmly in the head of the fantasising person, they are private and have no bearing on anybody else.

For possibly the first time ever I can say that I agree totally with both SGB and Malificence

thanks all. SGB you seem to sum up my thoughts perfectly...

Its all such a mess at the moment. I have caught him before, suspected him of doing it again and just had it confirmed by catching him after he passed out following a drugs binge. Which is an ongoing and long issue.

I have decided to separate the two in my head to try and give me some clarity. Although the two are linked... he only 'looks' when drugs are involved. I have a problem with the interaction; the fact that he is no longer my H, but just some dirty letcherous (sp) bloke.

He's in the process of begging/pleading/self pity/grovelling at the moment, which makes me desise him more. I don't think he can change, he might want to but I don't think he can. I have heard it all before... and I am sad.

despise

I just couldn't respect a man like this

Forget the debate whether it is/isn't cheating, he is just such a fucking loser, isn't he ?

I saw your contribution to another thread, btw, and replied to you there

He isn't "fantasising" when he is coked up. He is on some sick ego trip and can't stop himself from paying women to talk dirty to him

Fucking pathetic, and that man would be binned from my life

I expect he is trying to justify his skanking, isn't he ?

Why should you try and understand his "fantasies" ? They hurt you. He is hurting you. People who hurt you have no place in your life.

He is an addict, and he will destroy you both if you let him.

Fantasy is fine as long as it doesn't take anything away from your relationship and living it out is fine as long as it is with your partner or they know about it and have no issue with it.

thanks AF, I saw your reply and I thank you for that, I was so upset to finally 'talk' about it your message of support made me cry.

Surprisingly, he isn't justifying this time, he is on his knees. My focus are our dc's who are protected from this situation, and to get my head in some sort of order.

He does hurt me, us, everything; his previous justification for his actions is 'i never mean too' which I believe, to an extent but it's about choice isn't it?

Just so very sad and tired.

I am so sorry, love x

Do you think he is on his knees this time because he sees you at the end of your rope and needs to up the ante to get things back to "normal" ?

Fear of losing your tolerance to his pathetic behaviour can bring on the waterworks, but you know it is short-term (until the next time).

You should talk all you like, honestly.

He "doesn't mean to" is no justification for a family man with responsibilies. He is shirking his responsibilies and the forays into coke and paying for sordid online sex is just an escape from that. The trouble is, he will be eroding your respect for him...because what grown man is so unable to face up to life and his family ?

One that has very little place in a loving family, IMO.

He never means too, good god how old is he 12? What a child.

It's hurting you so in this instance no it's not ok, he is a druggie who when smashed will go "perving".

I wouldn't live with that on so many levels, if you can't bin him. You can't rationalise it, he has many issues, don't let him drag you down.

To be honest, I don't know his reasons this time, but yes AF you are probably right again. All I can think of is that me and our little family will never be enough; he will resent me eventually for not being 'okay' with it.

His waterworks simply push me further away, and what respect I had left for him as a responsible caring husband and father are pretty much erroded to nothing...

At the moment, emmy that is exactly what he is, a child. I am not his mother; but he is asking me for help.

He sounds highly dysfunctional, like one of those tortured rockstars who have a built in self destruct switch and end up dead.

You can't help him, he can only do this himself, he's not in any fit state to be a decent father or partner atm though.

What SGB often fails to recognise is that these things rarely happen in isolation, it's normally the tip of a very large iceberg - as in your case.
I would bet money on any man who has a penchant for that kind of online sex chat having serious issues - whatever they may be. Normal, happy, well adjusted and emotionally healthy men just don't do it.

Malificence; I agree wholeheartedly, and you hit the nail on the head.

A very large iceberg it is. 7 years worth to be exact.

He was asking this person, before he passed out, if she was close by. Suggesting it wouldn't stay virtual indefinately and eventually he would take things further. Not with her; but with someone else at least.

Fighting a loosing battle and wishing it was otherwise.

If wishes were real....

But you need to get real, and accept this man is never going to be the responsible family man that you need.

He is asking you for help ? To do what ? What can he possibly not do himself ? Is he aking you to sort his life out, as well as that of your own and your children ?

Piss-poor is what he is.

The problem here is the drugs not his sexual fantasies. It's the drug use that's making him use webcam sights compulsively, regardless of what you think. ANd the coke is far more a threat to his health, your family budget and your family's general wellbeing than if he just had a wank now and again.

A fantasy is something that you imagine, that is contained to your thoughts and imagination.

everyone has the right to think whatever they like.

depending on what that fantasy is depends on whether they have the right to act upon it.

are you ok, OP ?