Should we lie to save dh's licence?

[goodwife]

Moral dilemma here - and due to the nature of the dilemma, I'm going under a pseudonym.
The facts are as follows:

Over the last year dh has had 3 lots of speeding fines. Today he has had notification in the post that he was caught going 85 in a 70mph last week. As far as I am aware, this means that he will get another 3 points, making 12, which means a ban from driving (not sure how long for - anyone got any ideas?). Now if he's banned, then obviously this will have an impact on the family as a whole - he is able to get to work by public transport, and it is possible to get the children to school without a car (he does the morning school run), so not a drastic one, but obviously there are many times when he does things involving the car which he would no longer be able to do, and would therefore be down to me - running children to classes etc, shopping, taking stuff to the tip, etc. etc. Also, once he is able to drive again, the insurance premiums (already huge) would be even huger (is that a word?)

So where's the moral dilemma? Well, we could say that it was me driving the car. This would mean that I would have the points and he would not be banned. But, selfishly, I really don't want to do this - I've got a clean licence, and always have had, and obviously this would also increase our insurance premiums, whereas if he wasn't driving at all they would be manageable. But should I put him and any future inconvenience of me always having to do the driving before my pride? Of course, this would also be illegal (maybe this should have come higher in the list of reasons against! ) and the penalty if we were found out could be a £2000 fine. But how could we be found out - can the camera "see" who's driving the car?
So, your thoughts and experiences will be gratefully received.

I think quite probably that a camera takes a photograph when you are caught speeding, so they might be able to see that it wasn't you driving.

If it was me, I wouldn't cover up for my husband. As far as I'm concerned he is just as likely to kill someone, or himself, speeding as drink driving.

I'm sure that we're all guilty of going over the speed limit occasionally but to have been caught 3 times in a year, he is obviously taking the p*ss.

To be honest if he can't be trusted to keep to the speed limit, I don't think he should be allowed on the road. I don't think I'd want him driving my kids around either. He's a danger to himself and to everyone else.

So far he's had 3 speeding tickets, next time it could be much worse.

Sorry if this isn't want you want to hear, and that you will end up paying the price for his ignorance, but I don't think you should take the rap for him.

I have to say, if it was me, I don't think I would lie. And I don't think it would be selfish of you to choose not to do so.

No I don't think you should lie.

Having known someone badly injured because of someone else speeding,this concerns me. Bottom line is if your husband doesn't want to be banned he shouldn't speed. I understand that's it's inconvenient for both of you, but maybe he needs to take responsiblity for his actions.

Why should you commit a criminal offence by trying to cover up for him?

I have to say I don't think I'd be prepared to take the flack for it. If my DH had already been caught 3 times I would hope that he would be slightly more careful when driving so that it didn't happen again.

I also think that speed camera can be enhanced to see who is driving so definatley wouldn't take the risk of lying as I'm sure the concequences would be far worse than a driving ban.
Maybe you're more understanding than me but I'd be furious if my DH had done this.

Yep agree with others. 4 times in one year is taking the p*. I get really fed up with people continually speeding (although 85 in a 70 zone is "better" than 40 in a 30 zone), so yeah let him take the rap. Just tell him you've been told they can see who's driving or something.

Forgot to add, I think it would be a 1 year ban.

Let him bear the consequences of his actions. If you are caught lying (and you may well be), things will be far worse.

I agree with all the other posts.
Perhaps, a year of not being able to drive will teach him a lesson, and make him more careful in future. I also agree, that I would not want him driving the kids around, with his track record !!!

Even if you did take the blame for him, and managed to get away with it,another point is, what if you wanted a job which called for a clear licence, but you had points, due to his stupidity.

Personally, if my DH behaved like this, then expected me to take the blame, he'd be very lucky not to find his bags on the doorstep !!!!

DO NOT LIE. If you get caught lying you will almost certainly go to prison. You should therefore not even contemplate doing this as many types of camera can see who is driving.
It wll be either a 6 or 12 month ban.
Maybe he will take a bit more care when he does get his licence back.

Thanks for your support, but just one point - he hasn't asked me to do this, it's something I thought of because a friend said her and her husband had agreed to do the same if they were in this position. When I suggested it, he was very surprised (but then he's not very imaginative)
And don't get me wrong, dh will be paying for this in many ways for a long time.....

I would lie! Most definitely rather than having to do all the driving for a year.

I got caught by a camera and you couldn't see who was driving as the picture was taken from behind. All you can see is the back of the car.

No, don't lie! Do the rest of us a favour and get your dh off the road for a year! There is no excuse for his driving. And if he's been caught 3 times, goodness knows how many times he's been speeding and not been caught.

There are factors here to consider, if the defendant can prove that the loss of use of his car will cause him to loose his job then a magistate can grant further use of this licence past the 12 point limit. This does not apply to certain cercumstances (drink/drug driving for one).

The photo being used as evidence must be obtained by the defendant to examine for 'computer enhancements' to read the number plate. Such evidence cannot be used in court and would be rejected if contested.

There has been a recent case where a defendant has not signed the recipt of the 'notice of intended prosecution' and this receipt has been accepted by the cps then this also cannot be used in evidence.

There are many websites to read up on this information and you may find useful, there are some interesting statistics that show speeding is not a hangable offence as many of you seem to think so.

Peronsonaly under the circumstances (85mph in a 70mph limit) is no murder case. There are far worse thing happening in society that i feel the police should be as proactive in bringing offenders to justice. It seems to me the public are brain washed into believing speeding is a hanging offence so they can make some cash and look good because all they have to do is sit back and eat doughnuts to catch these 'criminals'.

I know people who have done it. you just have to fill in the form and say he wasn't driving, you were and you pay the fine and collect the points.

I got a summons for a camera fine and I wasn't driving, I didn't have the car on that dat, I'd sold it! The mercedes garage were taking it to the body shop. I just sent the form back and said it wasn't me and who I thought it was and I didn't hear anymore.

A friend has taken six points for her DH, I read in the paper about students willing to buy your points, ie. you give the a fee and they admit to it!

I know people who have done it. you just have to fill in the form and say he wasn't driving, you were and you pay the fine and collect the points.

I got a summons for a camera fine and I wasn't driving, I didn't have the car on that date, I'd sold it! The mercedes garage were taking it to the body shop. I just sent the form back and said it wasn't me and who I thought it was and I didn't hear anymore.

A friend has taken six points for her DH, I read in the paper about students willing to buy your points, ie. you give the a fee and they admit to it!

I have to say I'd lie for him and take the points. I doubt very much that a camera can tell who's driving, feel sure it's the back of your head and the number plate. And actually, all the police and local authority care about is getting their money. I don't think 85 in a 70 is a heinous crime either and I do think it's ridiculously easy to get a speeding ticket these days. I've been told that if you have under 3 points your insurers aren't interested (but check, I could well be wrong) so I wouldn't have thought it would affect your premiums. I'd say having an unable-to-drive DH would affect your life a LOT more! Hey, I know everyone disagrees with me but there you go. FWIW, I now have 6 points (both times late at night, I was the only car on the road, I really wasn't a danger to anyone) and I tried to get DP to take the second lot, figuring it would affect my insurance. He wouldn't and I didn't blame him but thought it was worth asking him. There's a site called Beat The Points or something (do a google, you should find it) which tells you all about this. Oooh, do let us know what you do won't you from the safety of your anonymity?

ooooooh. There I was thinking I was well within my rights to not go down that route and then along come some more of you with different ideas.
I suppose the real question is do I value having the moral high ground over the hassle that I would be caused by him not driving? Does that make me sound like a bad person? Well, maybe I am, but from behind my anonimity I can admit that I'm not really nice at all

How scary are you?
Your poor dh!

You sound nice to me. You can't be that bad if you are willing to take the rap for your husband.

It must be a hard decision for you to make, knowing that if he loses his licence, you'll end up with all the grief.

What did your dh say when you suggested it? Is he keen for you to go ahead? Do you think he is a danger to himself or anyone else or do you think he has just been unlucky to have been caught so many times?

ooh goodwife this is a rough one ... to lie or not to lie ... well u know i believe in the truth or as much of it that needs to be told - but i do believ that in this situation it would be more your paying for him speeding - in the sense that u'r the one who's going to suffer - if his licence is suspended ... so i think, if i were in your situation, i would probably lie. but he has to understand that this is it: he has to curb his speeding tendencies because u will not do this for him again and he owes u big time!!!
pity that u'r going to hav yr clean record besmurched tho ...

Hm - I am ambivalent about this too - speed cameras are mostly there for the money these days, whatever they say - you can tell from where they put them. I have 6 points too, www, and I am not a maniac, I often do 20 on eg narrow main roads with parked cars and terraced houses.

I got 3 points for doing 35 on an empty inner ring road, no parked cars, no pedestrians, from a hand-held camera I didn't see, and 3 for doing 36 on a road that had a 40 limit the last time I'd used it and they'd hardly bothered to flag the change (hands up who knows how to tell if it's a 30 limit or not?) - one woman got 9 tickets on the same bit of road because she turned out of a side road and there were no signs for her at all. (The council put ads about 1" square in their own local paper - not mine - and the regional evening paper - who gets those? That's all they have to do legally. Grumble grumble.)

Must say it was a bit silly of him when he's got 9 points already - I am VERY careful around speed cameras these days, especially those ones on motorway road works. I don't think it is a huge moral issue and I don't think they will even bother looking at the picture if you send the form in with your name on (my car was registered in DH's name anyway so the letter came to him but my name went on the back), BUT will he learn the lesson from this because you don't want to be going through all this again in a few months' time?

The not signing thing is being looked at - don't think you can get away with that any more. And I'm not sure about the effect of points on insurance but it's not huge.

PS I live on a mainish road, parked cars, side turnings, terraced houses, kids playing out, 30 limit, boy racers come flying past at 40-50 sometimes, why don't we have a speed camera? Not enough revenue, that's why - stick 'em on a nice wide main road and catch people out instead!

It depends whether he's going to do it again! If he hasn't learnt by the 3rd time, what's to say he isn't going to do it again, you'd still be stuck AND have points on your licence! Then what if you get done for speeding yourself?

I can see why you don't want to be stuck as the only driver, but I don't think I'd do it. My DH got a huge (then- £85 which was 2 weeks food money) fine & points for speeding many years ago. We can only assume it was a gatso gun because there were no fixed cameras. The children were playing up, he lost his temper & accelerated really hard for a minute or so to frighten them into behaving. He shouldn't have done it & I was very annoyed with him, but there was no-one else on the road, we didn't involve anyone else & it was literally a minute, after which he stopped & got out of the car. The police said he was doing 69 mph in a 40 mph limit... no way where we going that fast, but the AA said not to argue or he'd lose his licence. It still grates, even after all this time.

After the fine he learned his lesson & he has NEVER, EVER done it again! He is always the one driving through the roadworks at 40 mph while everyone else whizzes past us.... Bearing this is mind, I can't see why yours has been caught 3 times.

take the rap. - i am with the brainwshing theory. money money money grabbing b*stards.

Maybe our insurance premiums are so high because he has also had 3 accidents in the last 3 years and the car was stolen last year (not his fault this one). The accidents were not due to speeding by the way - but his carelessness / inattention was a major factor. So when it came to renewing last year, we did consider not even insuring him - made a difference of about £100 per month. But we decided the hassle of him being unable to drive would be too much. Maybe we should have taken that option.
He mainly does his speeding on the motorway - and if I dare to ask him to slow down then it is seen as nagging and makes him go all sulky "well you drive, then".
I wouldn't like anyone to think from all this that he is a bad person - he is a loving and caring father and husband. But maybe he needs a lesson, and not being able to drive coupled with having to eat serious humble pie would teach him that lesson.