Is this Toxic or not?

[ToxicOrNot]

Have name changed but am a regular poster.

This is about my MIL but not supposed to be a MIL bashing thread, I just am not sure if she is being toxic, narcissistic or just plain manipulative...

I am married to one of her sons, SIL to her other.
We are both having babies in the next few months and MIL has decided to come and visit around both births. The timing of her visit to me is unavoidable as the trip was already planned before I got pregnant (Christmastime) so I have resigned myself to the fact that she will be here from around my due date onwards; Not staying with us thankfully. All sorts of anxieties surrounding that but I have been trying to deal with it in a 'deal with it when it happens' kind of way with strict instructions to my DH that she not stay here overnight and he will persuade her out of the door if I need him to.

SIL is due in the spring and a couple of weeks ago told me that she had spoken to MIL on the phone and asked that she not arrange flights (MIL lives abroad) until after their baby is born as SIL and BIL want 2 weeks with just them and the baby and will also be expecting SIL's parents to fly in (Also living abroad) so need to co-ordinate visits. The whole point of this request was to avoid any anxiety or issues and to not feel too overcrowded by overseas visitors.

At the time MIL seemed to say she would still come around the due date so SIL repeated that she must check with them first before booking flights and BIL backed her up. This was very definitely expressed.

This weekend MIL e-mailed SIL to tell her she had booked the flights for about 10 days after the due date. SIL and BIL very upset called and asked her to please change the flights. MIL refused saying she had saved £50 by booking them when she did.

SIL says that MIL has said that she wants to be here for her son's birthday too which is a couple of weeks after their due date hence the timing of the flights, despite both BIL and SIL previously saying they will not be having a big celebration as they will have a newborn and SIL may still be recovering after the birth. MIL's response was that BIL's birthday marks her 40 years of being a mother and so she will be coming over at that time and won't be changing the flight. SIL has had fertility issues for many years and has stressed to MIL that now they are finally starting a family, they really do want those first two weeks to be just them. MIL responded by saying ?I have been waiting too you know?!

I have now spoken to SIL who says that MIL has said she won't be a nusance and that she will be staying with me and DH! I have already spoken to DH about this a while ago and told him that she can't possibly stay with us as we have only a very small 2 bedroom house (bathroom leading off the spare room which we will be making into a nursery of sorts) and will have a new baby too, infact I checked with him after she called on the weekend that she definitely wasn't staying with us and he said she would be staying with DH's granny (her mother).

So - Now both SIL and I are full of anxiety about both visits and I am unsure if DH has actually told his mum she can't stay or if he's saying one thing to me and another to her.

It seems to me that MIL is being very manipulative and making all of this about her when she should have just listened to what her son and DIL requested and been a bit more flexible. It's also making me worry that she will not respect our wishes around the birth of our baby at Christmas and I may have a battle on my hands at a time when I will be feeling quite vunerable.

What do you think? Rude and manipulative or perfectly reasonable behaviour?

Actually I am also lucky enough to be the mother of a daughter as well as a son! Hopefully I have an equally good relationship with both my children and their partners regardless of their sex. Rather than be scared it might happen to me in my world which may be rosy I agree I really can not imagine it happening. If it does then I will be very sad :(

Ok, I have just had a lovely email from SIL which confirms that their request was that she call them before booking flights to check the dates were ok, not that she wait until after the birth to book them.

SIL and BIL are going to tell her to change her flight and they will pay whatever it costs to change them. Seems it will get sorted out.

I asked SIL if there had been any crossed wires and she says catagorically 'no' - the request was that they have 2 weeks with no overseas visitors. I think the fact that both parents are overseas and no one knows when a baby will arrive has magnified the problems with visitors etc

I think it's sorted.

For the record as there are some dispersions to the opposite, I despise selfish men as well as selfish women. However I get the impression its the females ruling the roosts in this scenario if that's an incorrect assumption then I apologise and will redress the situation by saying both men are selfish little knobheads too!

Or maybe, rather than selfish little knobheads they are sensible men and women who are preparing for any/all eventualities and looking forward to 2 weeks to bond in their OWN families...

not sure what my own DH has done wrong in this scenario to be called a selfish little Knobhead but... whatever. at least we're all knobheads together

MIL is of course not in the slightest bit selfish.

Like I said, not meant to be a MIL bashing thread but now this has hopefully all been tied up please feel free to hijack the thread to this end summermadness

Am I the only one who thinks that banning Grannies for two weeks after the birth is sad?

Toxic, I just stumbled on this thread and haven't read all of the posts but I just wanted to lend you my support and say that I think you are being pretty reasonable. I think parents are a two way street. They don't have the right to demand whatever the hell they like just because they're your parents. they have to put some effort in at their end.

From what I can tell, she is willfully ignoring all your requests, which puts her firmly in the wrong. Its your like- she has to abide by your rules, I think.

I agree that banning grannies categorically is sad, but there's a big difference between banning granny from seeing your baby AT ALL and not wanting granny to affectively move in with you.

Hope it all works out.

Toxic, I just stumbled on this thread and haven't read all of the posts but I just wanted to lend you my support and say that I think you are being pretty reasonable. I think parents are a two way street. They don't have the right to demand whatever the hell they like just because they're your parents. they have to put some effort in at their end.

From what I can tell, she is willfully ignoring all your requests, which puts her firmly in the wrong. Its your like- she has to abide by your rules, I think.

I agree that banning grannies categorically is sad, but there's a big difference between banning granny from seeing your baby AT ALL and not wanting granny to affectively move in with you.

Hope it all works out.

But in this case the grandmothers would be staying elsewhere?

What a shame they either can´t be trusted not to outstay their welcome or than son/dil can´t say oh that´s it, can you come back tomorrow/another day.

I am kind of with you, Diddl, although the MIL shouldn't presume where she's staying during the visit (I can understand OP feeling put out about that).

Turn this around, YOU are the granny living far away and one of your sons is about to celebrate his 40th (a day you remember far more vividly than he does, it means a lot more to you than it does to him). This date happens to coincide with the expected birth of two (?your first) grandchildren.

Of course you want to time your visit to be around for all these exciting and very special events. Your DILs are saying they want you to stay away, but pah, they are being PFB and you have every right to be there at the same time as the babies' other grandparents. They will forget their inhospitality when the baby has arrived and they are grateful for an extra pair of hands around the house.

Well I'm sure that's not precisely right, but it could be terribly close. Just imagine it being your son whose wife is seeming to shut you out upon the birth of your grandchild. So I perceive OP's MIL as less than self-less, perhaps insensitive and bossy, but she'll have needed those qualities to be a sane mother. Not "toxic" or "manipulative" that I can tell, though.

What's PFB mean?

It´s a tough one when people are abroad.

I hope I could wait until baby was born rather than turn up in the hope that I´d picked the right time.

But I know I´d want to see baby asap & having given birth & bfed, I´d hope that my DIL would trust me to have a little sense as to when to leave them alone & to genuinely help rather than interfere!

PFB.

aahh!

Now is a good time for you all to get together, the four of you, and decide some ground rules and how the DHs are going to implement them.

I've just read the thread in more detail and I stand by what I said this morning. Really, it comes down to your relationship with your elders. Personally I get on extremely well with my parents and quite well with my in laws... but part of the reason the realtionship works so well is that we are completely open and honest with each other and if I told them not to interfere, by and large they wouldn't interfere. I think OP's MIL sounds a little difficult. I don't think you should be allowed to play a "ah, but I'm the MIL" trump card regardless of how difficult you're being.

If OP's MIL had been a nicer person in the first place, perhaps she would have been invited to stay.

FGS you don't need to explain about beds and rooms and whatever. You both gave her clear instructions as to when she could come and where she could stay.

Given that there is the option of her mum 5 min down the road everything you described sounded reasonable. If she has chosen to blatantly ignore all of you and land on you anyway then she deserves the fallout.

If I were your SIL I would be making it clear that she has caused anxiety and for that she definitely won't be welcome in those 2 weeks.

I get that she is excited but there is no excuse to wind everyone up like this. Oh yes of course while this is going on the attention is firmly on her and not on your pregnancies. Good luck ladies, sounds like you're gonna need it.

My MIL can be batty but I have made sure she undertsands that when I say NO I mean NO.

toxic
I'm glad you feel like you are 'growing some' along with your baby! You will need it. It is very difficult, but it is possible to be kind and reasonable, but also to look after yourself. Your baby comes first, and that means you being in a mentally strong, protective and protected place. I'm glad all fees sorted, just don't be bullied or manipulated into doing anything that doesn't feel right. You will regret it later if you aren't true to yourself, those first weeks with a newborn, first time round take you to every possible emotion. A time for you and your DH and your new baby to bond. Trust your instincts (not various opinions on this thread who may be lucky enough not to know how families can be). If something feels toxic it generally is. Good luck!

diddl - having a mother that one doesn't want around after a birth is sad, too. I asked mine to wait for three weeks, because the idea of her gives me pain, quite frankly, and for very easily definable reasons.

I imagine people with normal, or normal slightly dysfunctional family relationships, don't get how hideous and oppressive some parents can be. And you know, loads and loads of people have to take control of their relationships with their parents and have to draw boundaries...only to be told that it's sad, or it's selfish, or they're being controlling. I just think 'ah feck off, if you had to have them as family you'd not say that'.

Oh I´m sure.

I sometimes wonder though if some people draw boundaries for the sake of it.

I suppose I don´t really get the 2week being in a cocoon idea either.

But I also see when relatives are away it´s not as easy as them just staying for an hour & visiting a couple of days later.

summermadness you are showing yourself to be very, very far from a decent human being by your words on this thread! I'd say more judgemental, aloof and 'holier than thou'.

I'm back just to update on the situation.

BIL has decided to ask his mum to change the flights meaning that she will not come until probably more than a month after the baby is born - they are going to pay for her to change them. Apparently SIL's parents also booked without checking and so this means there's a clash of visitors.

I am not sure what I think to be honest, it's going to go down very badly indeed. I can understand wanting a couple of weeks alone but MIL is going to hate the idea of not seeing the baby for 4 - 5 weeks. On the other hand I do understand that two lots of over-seas visitors will be hard going and that SIL is naturally closer to her own parents so would prefer to see them first.

It also seems that MIL really has planned on staying with us for the whole two weeks in spring which has not once been discussed with us and I'm not happy with. I think that's pretty rude.

I am trying to put myself in her position and also think about how I would feel if it were my own mum - would I want my mum staying for two whole weeks while on maternity leave and with a 4 month old baby? It's really difficult because I know my mum would at least have asked if it was ok before planning anything and if she had a parent up the road she would try to split the visit so we weren't to inconvenienced. I have told DH that a few days to a week would be fine but that I am really uncomfortable with 2 weeks. He agrees but I am not sure he has the balls to say anything.

I hope this all gets sorted out before Christmas when she is coming over for my due date and I really hope that she allows us to have some time with our own baby rather than wanting to spend every day with us.

Hi tox

I think you are being very open and straightforward and hopefully your visitors will cooperate.

My experience was three planned caesarians in four years (!). Each time we organised two weeks with DH on leave then 2 weeks with my parents visiting to help out then 2 weeks with MIL staying. All went well as planned and they were fantastic help.
Only fly in ointment was third time round a random cousin of DH arrived to stay unexpectedly 2 weeks in. At the time I made her welcome and looked after her as she was "depressed". I even cooked her special food as she was fussy eater. She did at least play with toddlers. We discovered later she had been discovered having an affair and husband had thrown her out! What a nerve