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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is his orgasm more important than mine?

31 replies

PoppyField · 23/11/2010 14:55

Me and DH have been going through what seems like a prolonged rough patch. Married 10 years, two children in the space of two years after years of trying and IVF horrors. It now feels as if he's been in a bad mood since DC2 was born 21 months ago.

Sex has never been fabulous, but we had a good time. Infertility certainly took the shine off it, and it became perfunctory. Can't think of the last time we were wild and carefree in bed.

I've always been upfront about wanting an orgasm when we have sex and have never felt particularly bad about 'helping myself along' manually. I suppose it did disappoint me somewhat that he didn't feel too bothered about my satisfaction. On the other hand, of course, orgasm has to be the end point for him. Isn't that the whole point of it for most men? 'It's alright if she doesn't have one, but I've got to haven't I?' seems to be the general message. Foreplay diminished to pretty non-existent and again, I missed that but didn't say anything as I didn't want to appear critical.

So we don't do it at all now. It turns out (when we were trying to have a grown-up conversation about what was going wrong in our relationship) that he felt that I 'pressured' him into sex last time we did it six months ago and that has turned him off it. I was really insulted and felt upset but I didn't let him see that - I don't want to get into a competition for who is most offended by the other one. Still, I felt it was really below the belt and knocked my confidence. The accusation was unjust and unfair. It made me pull away from him and I haven't sought any affection from him at all. He hasn't given me any affection for ages and it makes me so sad. I feel so lonely.

Then last weekend - another 'chat' - he accused me of being selfish in bed, that I had only cared about my orgasm and that me masturbating really put him off and that's why he didn't want to have sex with me. He said it in such a nasty way it makes me cry. It is just so hurtful to hear him say things like that. It feels like he's kicking me. I've never felt very confident about my sexual skills on a man - I've always asked him what he wanted, but never successfully managed to give him a blowjob despite being up for tuition or guidance - now I feel incredibly rejected and an also angry, I mean, Why wouldn't you want an orgasm when you're having sex - doesn't everybody.

So I did defend myself and say 'Isn't your orgasm important to you? Aren't you keen on having one when you're having sex? So surely the same can go for me? Your orgasm is important to you isn't it?' And when thus challenged he said 'No, not really, no!' Yeah right. Liar liar pants on fire.

So can someone tell me, what can I do? Sex wasn't great and going downhill anyway, but I would never have insulted his performance just because I would think that would be cruel. Anyway now he's done that to me and it does feel cruel. As much as feeling insulted, I feel terribly sad that he feels able to be cruel to me and to crush me without care of my feelings. I always thought he was caring towards me, even when everything else was crumbling. Maybe now that's crumbling too.

Perhaps there is room for a new start here. Maybe we can have a sexual Ground Zero and start watching Lovers' Guides and have a new dawn together. But that seems unlikely, given what seems like a new low in our relationship. I feel lonely and sad about him. He is supposed to care about me and I feel completely unloved. Which makes it so very difficult for me to love him.

OP posts:
AnnieLobeseder · 23/11/2010 15:00

Oh dear. It sounds like neither of you were doing a very good job of communicating your needs in bed, and as a result neither of you were satisfied. He was wrong to start an argument about it instead of having a mature sensible discussion, but his feelings were probably valid.

You both need to talk. And you need to get over the weirdness of talking about what you like and don't like in bed. Start anew, go on dates, woo each other. Start with just kissing, then a little fondling etc etc. Learn together!

Others will be along with better advice I'm sure!

PamelaFlitton · 23/11/2010 15:01

Quite odd. Most men love it when their partners have orgasms, surely? I don't see why his and hers have to be mutually exclusive Confused

Issues here, methinks

cilantro · 23/11/2010 15:41

No definitely I agree with you. Women are just as entitled as men to have one every time. And he should so NOT have an issue with you having to help yourself along since most women can't have one otherwise. He sounds a bit selfish. If a woman went on a 6 month dry spell, the man would be getting very annoyed. So as far as I see it, YOU have a right to be very upset right now. Hope things work out for you. He hasn't been acting suspicious lately, has he?

Hullygully · 23/11/2010 15:43

He is just plain horrid.

thatsnotmyfruitshoot · 23/11/2010 15:57

I really think sex is such a barometer of what's going on in your relationship. The bedroom is the last place that criticisms and nastiness should be present.

There isn't anything wrong in what you were doing, but I think you know that. The issue is that he doesn't seem bothered about your happiness here, and blocks any attempts to discuss it reasonably. You, in turn, feel unable to be open with him and let him know how much he's upset you.

Six months is a very long time for all this to have festered and it sounds as though there's been a real communication breakdown. Either you need to make time to sit down and have a proper, calm conversation about how to get things on track, or you need to seek some professional advice.

I would also ask as cilantro did, have there been any signs of odd behaviour from him lately?

PoppyField · 23/11/2010 17:00

Thank you for your replies. Yes Hullygully he is being plain horrid. I'm trying not to think that he IS horrid.
I think if sex is the barometer for what's going on in our relationship, then it is pretty bad. Communication has been awful. I've really tried to communicate in an adult way, but it just degenerates nastily. We tried Relate - well of course I 'dragged' him to Relate - this time last year, but we were both knackered, he said that he was too tired to do it and only lasted around 5 sessions. He didn't engage, just felt got at and has used this against me since. I'm seeing the Relate guy on my own at the moment. He is pissed off about that - banging on about the money even though we're not short of it - but absolutely, resolutely not showing any interest in why I am going. I'm going because I feel totally stuck.

Thankyou AnnieL for your kind thoughts. And thatsnotmyfruitshoot. It is so hard to have a calm grown-up conversation. We are going out to dinner tonight - I gave a fait accomplis on that one. Maybe we can talk a little then.

Poppy

OP posts:
SparklingExplosionGoldBrass · 23/11/2010 17:06

It does sound as though he's not doing much to fix the problem between the two of you. There are various reasons why this might be.
ONe is that he is crap in bed but thinks he's a great stuf (after all, he has a Cock! THat's surely all you need!) and is seriously hurt and offended by the fact that you don't just orgasm from one poke with the Mighty Phallus.
Or it could be a matter of him thinking that he's the Man in the house and you are only a woman and therefore less important, so you should stop whining.
Or he could have decided that he doesn't really want to be with you any more, but is in no rush to give up his home comforts or be seen as the Bad Guy for walking out, so he's going to basically ignore you till you run out of patience and ask him to leave.

dittany · 23/11/2010 17:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

overmydeadbody · 23/11/2010 17:25

What a horrible selfish bastard.

I agree with SGB.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 23/11/2010 17:28

He's gone off sex ---- with you..... is he getting it from someone else.....

PoppyField · 23/11/2010 17:36

anotherplace - I don't think he's getting it elsewhere - he's home every night, doesn't go wandering off or on overnights. Obviously it is possible that he's at it on his lunch hour, but I don't think so. He seems to want to blame me for everything - it is a kind of projection of his own problems. He is so angry and frustrated. At me, I suppose. But I don't think I deserve it. Sparkling - thank you for your thoughts, most grateful - he used to be very respectful, but there is something passive-aggressive re: your last point. It feels as if he is pushing me. Dittany - he thinks that it's me that has everything my own way, goes on and on along the lines of 'What about me?' He talks as if he is the victim, when it's me that feels bullied.

OP posts:
pushmepullyou · 23/11/2010 17:42

Poor you, that's so mean Sad

The only excuse I can think of that isn't just that he is a cock is that he is terribly insecure about his own 'performance' and perceives you masturbating as a criticism of him i.e. he's not 'good enough' to make you orgasm without your help.

Does this sound at all plausible?

AnyFucker · 23/11/2010 17:45

This man, as well as being a selfish pillock, has very little idea of what constitutes normal female sexual response.

He needs to educate himself on that score, and also learn some basic manners.

purplepeony · 23/11/2010 17:52

I find it rather telling that you have "never managed a blow job"- errrr... it's not rocket science. Do you mean he doesn't want one, or you feel awkward doing it- or what?

Neither of you seem very confident sexually- either on your own or as a couple.

I agree with the otehrs that there is more to this than just sex- the poor sex is a symptom of other issues- you need to find out what they are and if you can fix them- and if he is not willing to address the issues via Relate- do you really want to be with him?

SparklingExplosionGoldBrass · 23/11/2010 18:44

You could maybe give him one last chance by saying, look, this is a problem between js, what can we do to fix it? ANd if all he does is whine and blame you, then it's not worth you putting in any more effort.

snowflake69 · 23/11/2010 18:46

A good man should always make sure the lady comes first. Thats the unwritten rule Grin

We always usually have 69 first cause I find it easy to orgasm from that and then we have sex.

'It's alright if she doesn't have one, but I've got to haven't I?' seems to be the general message.'

Also most men say the best thing is seeing their woman enjoying sex/orgasms. I dont think its normal in a relationship for a man to be like this.

dittany · 23/11/2010 18:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PoppyField · 23/11/2010 22:41

Thanks Dittany. Yes there is much more to this than sex. I feel verbally battered as well. I don't want to have to admit that it is as bad as it is. I don't know, maybe he is depressed - but he's putting all the anger and blame on to me bigtime. I don't feel as if I know how to protect myself from this onslaught.

OP posts:
dittany · 23/11/2010 23:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NerdyFace · 25/11/2010 13:24

I would agree that he is a Selfish man!

I think you have had some great advice on here, and can only offer my own personal feelings as a man!

Whenever I and the Ex would have sex, her "finishing" was always the thing I was most concerned with, often to the detriment of my own performance!
Anytime I would perhaps finish early due to drink or something like that, it would ruin my even, even if I had finished, it wouldn't provide me with anything pleasureable!

Has he always had a low drive for things like this?..Maybe He see's you masterbating as threatening to his "role" as the person whose supposed to be pleasing you?..If thats true it's stupid masculine crap!

Gay40 · 25/11/2010 13:32

Most people would love it if you were enjoying yourself so much that you helped yourself along the way.....wouldn't they?

He sounds like a selfish bell-end.

PoppyField · 09/04/2012 09:19

I'm just re-reading the advice I received on this thread. It was all really helpful. And prophetic. So Aha! Yes of course, the truth was that DP really didn't care about my happiness in any department, not just sex. In retrospect, my post about sex was a post about everything else. He was emotionally abusive. The relationship had to end. My personality, my sense of self, was being battered into nothing.

I can't tell you how painful that was. I can see how one might spend the rest of one's life saying 'How could he? How could he?'. You would never find the answer. This is NOT what I will be doing.

So I did ask him to leave last summer. And he left. I didn't realise how bad it had got until he'd gone and i felt so much better. I have not missed him even for one hour. My home, with my DCs, is now a happy one. The things I am scared of are admin and money - not the person who was supposed to love me the most. I was scared all the time, I now realise.

The hardest thing perhaps is to understand how bad things are when you're in the relationship being hated -Boiled Frog Syndrome anyone? You need somehow to see that this kind of treatment is absolutely, categorically not normal for a proper relationship. I resolutely held onto the conviction that DP was at heart a decent and kind person. This conviction was wrong! His behaviour towards me was appalling and vicious. It was a huge hurdle for me to acknowledge the truth that what I had was an abusive relationship, not a marriage of equal partners. It also took a long time to realise that the only way I could stop this abuse was for him to leave. I persisted - for two years - thinking that there must be something I could do to stop it. Amazing how I could take responsibility for it... and when my efforts did not work - as they never could have - how easy it was to take on that failure as all mine.

I read the Lundy Bancroft book. And friends and MNers made me see what was real.

The betrayal is so hard to take that denial is almost easier. Until it takes such Olympic levels of energy and will power to do it that you just can't. That's where I got to.

Thank you MNers for helping me see.

I'm feeling ok. And angry. He still tries to bully me. At least I am seeing it for what it is, and I marshall my forces. I am looking forward to getting unmarried from this man.

I lurk on other threads and get a huge amount of solidarity and support from reading the contributions. Big heart for the likes of AnyFucker and SolidGold/variations and Dittany (where are you Dittany - are you still around?). Thanks Guys.

Poppy

OP posts:
MyleeneCrass · 09/04/2012 09:24

Could he be shagging someone else?

ElusiveCamel · 09/04/2012 09:29

Myleene Did you notice the date on this thread or read the last post? :)

Poppy Well done for getting there in the end. And yes, I agree it can be so very difficult to see a relationship for what it is when you're in it.

MyleeneCrass · 09/04/2012 09:30

Buggers, sorry. Sleepy from a bad night.