Upset at dh - am I being unreasonable?

[feelinglost]

I'm a reasonably regular poster and I've been a MNer for a year or so. I've changed my name because I've recommended MN to family members (incl one of dh's close family members) and one in particular may now be a MNer without me knowing and it's too easy to work me out from my usual MN name. If you recognise me, please don't say my usual name or give me away. Thanks.

Anyway... I came home from work today and checked dh's e-mail. He is selling some stuff but he's away tonight and I'd need to do it on his behalf if someone was to buy so that it doesn't get delayed. I saw an e-mail referring to an item that he'd thought of buying but I wasn't happy about. I can't say what it really is incase dh's relative is reading, but lets call it a motorbike. What really upsets me is that the e-mail was from the motorbike's owner asking if he'd had a chance to view it on the weekend. The owner lives far away from where the item is kept. This was a complete shock as every time it has come up in conversation, I've said that we'd have to agree the purchase before he bought one as to make good use of it needs time as well as money. I searched his e-mail folders and found one marked HOBBY TITLE and, sure enough, they've corresponded several times over the last week about whether this item was still for sale and then about dh possibly going to view this item. On the w/e dh had to work and he left early, I thought to give him enough time to drive to this place, but the e-mail he sent to the seller said "I'm going to CITY NAME on the w/e and may be able to view the item. Please can you provide me with details of where to view." Why didn't he discuss it with me first? Is he really intending to buy it? Did he go to see it on the w/e? He was home late that night but didn't say anything, or yesterday either. I feel let down and upset. He manages our finances, but once I read that e-mail, I decided to make my savings inaccessible to him. It doesn't stop him paying for it by credit card or cheque but it's something. I've been able to change the password on my main savings accounts so that he can't go and help himself to that money without me knowing. (He knows my passwords as he usually does all that stuff.) I don't know if this item costs £hundreds or £thousands. I suspect it wouldn't be any less than £1,000 purchase, plus upkeep and time and stuff. Am I being unreasonable? Should he discuss this purchase with me first? I know he works hard and earns decent money (my part time salary is a pittance in comparison but my savings are my inheritance and is a lot of money - to me, anyway.) Sorry if this sounds a jumble. Dh will ring tonight, probably around 7pm to 10pm. I don't have to say anything to him tonight as he doesn't know the e-mail from the motorbike owner has come in. Once he comes home tomorrow though, he'll know I've seen it because I have downloaded the incoming e-mails in his e-mail account and dealt with the one I had to in his absence, so I can't pretend that I don't know about it.

Please advise. I have to make the tea and the children are old enough to be nosy and read this and I'll have to log off lots incase they read this whilst I'm busy cooking tea so please understand if I only come on every quarter of an hour or so until they are in bed.

Blimey life isn't much fun for you is it hun So I take it he's a control freak or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Sorry to hear about the kids and cinema. Does he usually interact much with them? Glad you enjoyed yourself with them though

Oh, yes, and he'd threatened me with divorce first when there was a family argument and he refused to accept any blame and put it all on me. He said "If you ever do anything like that again, I'll divorce you" and I readily agreed to it, so he withdrew it immediately.

FL - I would give that chunk of money away asap. Or maybe you could put some in trust for the children with no access for him? How old are they by the way?
He says divorce would devastate them but this really depends on how things are at home and how happy you all are at the moment. I can only comment from my own experience but I had parents that fought and treated each other terribly sometimes for 13 years because they thought they should stay together 'for the sake of the children' My sister & I were 9 & 7 when it started & it used to tear us apart. On the bright side they finally divorced 10 years ago, they are both with new partners and both much nicer people now!

Yes, I'm your regular nice home, lovely kids, decent reliable family income but unhappy person. I love the same kind of holiday as the kids, but he hates it. The kids have even suggested that we go by ourselves as it isn't dh's scene. He just goes ahead and plans and books what he wants for us all.

Dh does things with the kids as long as they are participating in his hobbies. Needless to say, his idea of fun isn't theirs. They do show an interest in the beginning but I have to stick up for them and say that they don't want to do i.e. fishing for a whole week. One day at a time a couple of times a year is okay. A week is too much. He just can't see it unless I and the kids are saying it together and stand united.

Yes, he is a big cheese in work and I think he needs to remember that he isn't once he gets home.

Is there anyone you can confide in in RL FL? Though we're all here for you hun xx

It's land based not money and I'm afraid how it would look. It's worth about £20k but much much more if we were to get planning permission on it. I'm a joint owner with other family members. I'd have to give it away absolutely free I think in order for him not to be able to claim part of it later. I can look into it, though.

I do have one friend who I was in school with and who I remain very friendly with even though she lives miles away and she is very busy, especially since she became a single parent a few years ago. I could ring her and have a chat and then decide whether or not it would be suitable for me to confide in her. Another one of my very old friends has just had a baby, so she's out. Some of my friends know dh too well either socially or through work, so they are out. I will try to speak to the first one. It's a shame she lives 100s of miles away, but most of my oldest friends do as we moved with dh's work.

If the situation gets worse could you find a member of your family who would kindly 'return the gift of land' after any potentional divorce?
Sounds like you do not share many interests/views on life in general. Could this possibly change going forward or do you actually completely disagree about how you want to live your lives? - (and the childrens)

Why is your friend with new baby out?

FL, what a horrible situation. I don't have any practical "do this and that" advice, but perhaps you could read the thread back and try to work out how you'd post to help "feelinglost" if she wasn't you iyswim?

I hope that you can get this sorted out - fwiw, you sound very strong and capable and I'm sure you can sort things out so you're happier xxxxxx

I think he's doing a good job of cutting himself out of the family himself. Your children seem to have sussed that already! It is spooky and a bit sad how much your DH reminds me of my Dad (sad, because this attitude has alienated me and my DSis, and he barely has contact with DBro) I'm sure that isn't what he wants but I have a feeling it'll take something huge to jolt him out of this complacency.

Can you not try and preempt him on a few things? Get in first with the holidays for example, go get brochures you and the DKids want and just tell him where you are going....no discussion, no argument. Maybe this whole 'motorbike' thing can be the catalyst you need to wrest back a bit of control and power.

I've been away from the PC helping ds with his homework. He'd forgotten about it so we were starting it at bedtime.

Okay. Kids ages are upper primary and lower secondary. Yes, she would return the gift of land free afterwards if we were allowed to do it legally. They (solicitors) were a bit quizzical when I did the first one, but I said she could have it free if she paid the legal costs and they were okay with that. This last piece is worth much more and if I had it in writing that she'd return it then it wouldn't be a gift (I forget the legal term) and dh could claim I still had access to ownership of it (so to speak). If I didn't have it in writing then he couldn't but then I'd have no right over it, but as long as she is the person who has it, I don't mind iykwim. She has other things equally valuable that she could give me then or later on if we were allowed to do it. Next bit - we normally agree because I agree to what he proposes as I know not agreeing is futile. He'll either make life miserable or propose something worse the next time. We're just so different in so many ways.

My friend with the new baby is "out" because she is a new mum, she knows too many family members and friends and I can't rely on her to be discreet. I know her very well; too well to be blind to her inability to keep a secret. It is a shame as she is one of my closest, oldest friends.

hm - Yes, I'm sure I will get through this. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, isn't MN brill?!

serenity - Yes, I've thought of prempting things. Whenever I suggest a holiday it's "Oooh, that's expensive. And then all the extras when you get there." I know that we have to go in school hols time and my fav place is bumped up price wise then, but the kids and I love it. I'm sure when you add in the flights, car hire, accommodation and all the rest of the ones he plans, there can't be much difference. I did suggest that we have three votes each and that we put them in a hat and picked out three and discussed them seriously. Because that meant the kids and I having a good chance of ours coming out tops he refused to go along with that although the kids did do their three each and we stuck them on the noticeboard at home. I mean that he disengages himself from things he doesn't want to do. It's rarely a row as such. I don't know if I can explain it better. Yes, I do want to wrest back some control so it's more of an equal relationship. I had thought of suggesting that I go away one w/e soon to visit my friend with the baby. I doubt it would come off. He'll suggest we all go and then I'll only be expected to see her for an hour or something. He has had lots of days and weekends (and more) away by himself and has never suggested that I have one. I think I've got him over this "motorbike" thing. I can't see this dishonesty bit being right. He should have discussed it first. It seems a bit like a mid life crisis and sometimes I wonder if all this actionman type stuff is just that. Wait 'til he hears from me that I've changed the password for my savings accounts. That'll stop him in his tracks. He could still pretend to be me, having forgotten the password online and have a new one sent to my e-mail address (online banking) so I've asked the bank to send me stuff on having it branch based instead. They have a 24 hour service so I might ring them again and get more advice.

Hi FL - hope you got some sleep last night. How are you feeling about him coming back today?

Hi J, thanks for your message. I did sleep although I think I woke a few times in the night knowing that there was a problem and it was the first thing I thought about when I woke. I came on here as I've got to start thinking about him coming home tonight and what I will say. I've been very busy in work today so that helped (although I don't know if I was as sharp as I should have been as I missed something and I'm sure a work colleague thought "Duh!"). I don't know. If I go in guns blazing, he'll say that I'm going OTT and overreacting so I can't do that. I am cross about that one thing (and other things from days/weeks/months and even years ago. We're not good at resolving things. We just lie low for a few days and then carry on.) I feel that I've lost the trust I had in him. He travels a good bit and is away from home overnight and stuff and I thought I could trust him to just work, eat, go to the b&b, work, eat, etc - now I realise that he can use that time for whatever he wants and I wouldn't know unless he chose to tell me. If he can keep that from me, he can also keep other things from me. Right. Must do the school run. Any advise from anyone would be most welcome.P.S. Sorry my posts are so long.

Hi FL - just wondered how you were feeling now and wanted give you a boost of strength for when he comes home. You can handle this calmly - even if you are shaking like a leaf inside - you are in the right so don't forget it!

J - He's home. We haven't spoken except for the absolute basics. He seems to be hiding away watching tv. He knows that I've dealt with the e-mail thing he was selling but I don't know if he has worked out the rest. I'll have to speak to him later I guess, once the kids have gone to bed. Thanks for your continued support. I'll let you know how it goes.

Hi there

I'm sorry for how you are feeling. I hope you remain calm and in control.

You HAVE to be strong. If you don't put your foot down he is going to carry on how he wants with no regards to you and your children.

Good luck (-:

Okay, here's the update. He went to bed at half nine. Very unusual. He popped into the kitchen, said "I'm going to hit the sack" and went. I thought that he might come down a minute later to complain about the waiting to be put away washing on the bed but he didn't. He's probably just piled it on the floor. The kids went about 45 mins before that. In between, I was doing the washing up, sorting out the pets etc and he was in another room watching tv and reading the paper. I've just taken a quick look at his e-mail and he has filed away the e-mail in his HOBBY NAME folder. He had replied to the seller saying that he did manage to view briefly on Sat but that the item was a bit beyond his capabilities at present. The e-mail was timed for when I was out of the house taking one of the kids to an activity. He'd read his e-mails when he came home and commented on the item he had for sale. I said that I'd dealt with it already. He didn't reply to the e-mail then as I was in the room, but waited until I was out of the house. I had thought that I could open the discussion by saying that I'd seen the incoming e-mail and why didn't he discuss wanting to buy the item with me before contacting a seller and suggesting a viewing. Now I know that he actually did go to view on the w/e as his e-mail says so. So that's why he allowed about 4 hours to travel when 2 1/2 would be sufficient. I feel like a fool. Oh, yes, I read his first e-mail to the seller properly a second time and looked up the website (easy to do as it was still on the history on the PC) and the item was £550 which is a fair (or even low) price if it's in good nick as per the listing. Not that I'm trying to make excuses for him, you understand.

Thanks Kathlean for your message.

Right. What to do now?

Whether he was going to buy the item or not is not as important as the fact that he is deliberately hiding this from you, lying and being deceitful.

Are you happy to live with this? If not you have to confront him about it.

Sorry but I think you have to do somthing or you are accepting/condoning his attitude.

Try sitting and writing what you want to say so that you have some idea don't let him divert you from your conversation with 'it's you fault' type arguments.

It's NOT your fault.

Oh FL - you will not be sleeping well tonight bless you.
Will you get chance to speak with him in the morning? The sooner you raise it the better. No matter what the price of the item, it's the issue of him going behind your back.
Be brave & keep us updated

Okay. You're right, I know. What do I say? How about... "I found the e-mail about the "motorbike" when I checked to see if you'd sold the you had for sale. Why didn't you tell me that you were in contact with someone and that you intended to go and view it on the w/e? When were you going to tell me?" What do you think?

I would go with the 'I'm very upset/dissapointed' like the help books tell you to do with 4 year olds (-:

Make sure he know just how much this has hurt you without being emotional.

If he starts going off at a tangent walk away and ignore the tantrum like you would with a toddler as well.

Good luck (-:

Okay. I do need for him to understand that he has hurt me by keeping this from me and I want him to explain why he did it, too. I also need him to understand that if he can do this about this item, then he can do it about other things, too. I feel that I have lost the bit of trust I had left in him. I know that he is blind to his own faults and sometimes when I hear him describing something to a friend, it's quite far removed from the truth, but I thought he just exaggerated a lot. A couple of times he has either lied or else has convinced himself that a different version was the truth, but I've had no proof apart from my own memory of what really happened and he has stuck with his version iyswim. If I said anything to correct it, he over-ruled me and said I was wrong. In fact, yes, I have twice had someone who would back up the truth - the person concerned, but you can't ask a third party to repeat the truth to prove one of us right and the other wrong, can you?

Where do I sleep tonight? The spare bed isn't made up or anything and yet I don't want to sleep in our bed. I suppose I'll have to though as the kids will ask questions otherwise.

Tough one about the bed. Can you not just tell them that you had trouble sleeping and thought you might be better in the spare room?

FL, if it helps at all, after having many years of those rows where dh knows he has been out of order but tries the twisting it round thing!!!(infuriating!). someone told me do (its a bit self helpey!)the folowing:

pick the right time to say something, when he is fed and watered! not as was my tendency as soon as in door! and when you have emotions under control. start by saying i need to tell you something. say what you need to say in a short, brevited sentence.... dont go on and on, men then just think here we go! and immediatley become defensive and also forget what original point was.

Tell him you are not happy with what he has done, he has hurt and upset you.......and then walk away.... how ever he reacts DONT get emotional, just walk away..... it may sound a bit obvious or weak but it really works. i think its the clinical way its delivered, with the lack of my going over and over it that seems to hit him, he thinks god this is serious.

plus my just going about my daily life afterwards being quite pleasant to him without sulking, crying etc i think makes him also realise oh this is different, not the usual wifey blah! this works for me but just a suggestion, hope you can resolve it, thinking of you x