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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

You don't know how lucky you are to have people who listen until they're gone.

73 replies

EternalCynic · 08/11/2010 19:36

It has just occurred to me how indescribably wonderful organisations like the Samaritans and Women's Aid are. To be able to call someone and just have them listen to you...I can't praise it enough. I am currently feeling absolutely suicidal and have no one to call (don't worry, I've never been brave enough to actually go through with it). I don't even know why i'm posting this, just need to get it out I suppose. And to encourage others who perhaps may hesitate to call them...please do, you are so lucky to have access to such wonderful people. Sorry for the little rant folks, i hope you'll not mind as I genuinely don't know what else to do other than type this on Facebook and let all my friends know what a freak I am.

OP posts:
LittleMissHissyFit · 11/11/2010 09:36

To Everyone else, as extreme as this sounds, and as dangerous as it is, this is every day life for many, many women in places like this. Doesn't make it acceptable, doesn't make it normal, this is one of the millions of reasons I couldn't hack it there. EC is 'lucky' she can get out. All she has to do is get a ticket and get to the airport.

But the local women won't have the option of being able to get out, they can't get on a plane. If they are beaten, they just get taken straight back to the H by their own family.

One rule I always lived by, was to have a ticket home, from the age of 20 when I was in Brazil, i always made sure I had a ticket back. You never know what might happen. It really does help you feel less powerless in dreadful situations.

LittleMissHissyFit · 11/11/2010 09:39

Anyone know if her being married in the court there actually counts in the UK?

suwoo · 11/11/2010 09:49

Sending you lots of strength to leave the fucker EC x

JamieLeeCurtis · 11/11/2010 12:46

Thank God someone knowledgeable like you is one here LMHF.

Longtalljosie · 11/11/2010 14:42

Well, even if it does - you don't have to divorce in the same country you married in.

EC - what country is your mum in?

QuietTiger · 11/11/2010 16:11

Will you be found if you go to the British Embassay in the country you are in tonight and wait? Take your passport, and all your documentation (and cat in a basket), go to the Embassay and ask the guard to speak to the British Duty Security Officer as a matter of urgency, be persisstent and bloody minded about it, because the local security staff will initially block you. Explain what has happened and explain that you are desperate for a place of safety and want to leave the country.

They will help you with the cat, even if you put her on the plane and sort out quarantine at Heathrow, and they will help get you to the airport.

They may not be able to help officially, but often the British diplomats help unofficially. believe me, I know because I've been on the embassy side. Good luck, we are praying for you.

LittleMissHissyFit · 11/11/2010 18:32

Great advice QuietTiger!

EternalCynic · 11/11/2010 19:18

Thanks so much everyone. He is away tonight, so I'm home. Have a massive bruise on my arm which I didn't realise till I got to work (wearing a short sleave shirt) - had a few raised eyebrows which was a bit embarassing. I am so glad my mum knows, and my sister too, although they have conflicting opinions on what I should do. I don't feel in imminent danger right now - I think if I just stay quiet and out of the way he'll leave me alone. This will enable me to sort things out without being kicked out the house or anything. I haven't called the embassy yet as I don't think I should run, I think I can get things sorted without having to resort to it - but I will say a HUGE thank you first for the idea and also for info about Duty Security, if he comes home in the morning and it starts again then I will go there.

I have made a list of things I need to do. Not sure how I will accomplish it, but at least I have it clear in my mind. I'm hoping that he will calm down in a few days and then, armed with the fact that my mother is now fully aware of everything (he's a bit scared of her) I can approach him about putting the car in my name and him finding somewhere else to live. I do need him to move out - I can't as it's rented in my name. Makes no sense for me to leave the place.

Feeling a bit sore today and have had really weird mood swings - laughing and joking one minute and sobbing in the loo the next. I just can't imagine him not being around after almost 5 years together - and I mean really together. We were each other's best friends once. What the hell happened? I used to want this man's babies and to spend my life with him. How could he ruin everything and betray me like this? Right now I really do not like men at all. Are they all cheating and violent? Hard to believe there are any who are not.

Gosh really living up to my name tonight aren't I!

OP posts:
Longtalljosie · 11/11/2010 21:04

No - all men are NOT violent cheaters. You deserve so much better than this. Is this what you wanted for yourself? You have no children with this man, you can put him in your past. You can leave this country, and go home. Why on earth not?

QuietTiger · 11/11/2010 21:22

OK EC. The Duty Security Officer at the Brit embassy is an "out of hours" emergency contact. You'll want to see a British Consulate Officer during the day.

What I would recommend re: cat (and I'm a real cat lover who's dragged 3 of mine all over the world so totally get the can't leave her behind)- look into UK quarantine options if she needs to escape with you - you can always send her back to the UK unaccompanied first if she's up to date on shots and get your mum or sister to collect her. Quarantine is expensive, but a good quarantine kennels will let you pay monthly and if neccessary I can help you find a good one. You'd be looking at about £250 a month for quarantine. Flight costs, she'll have to fly cargo and it will cost you in the region of £600 on someone like BA.

If you have safety options for cat, things will be easier for you because you won't be worrying about her, if that makes sense? I know how much i am focusing on cat, but everyone else is giving advice to you re: you and I know how important cat is to you. (I'm calling her cat because I don't know her name)

Good luck - we're really rooting for you.

QT

LittleMissHissyFit · 11/11/2010 22:41

Sorry, this is LONG...

OK, I am not sure where exactly in the world you are, but let me tell you how the conversation will go vis-a-vis the car, him moving out etc.

BADLY

He will refuse to do it. If you push it, you could risk serious injury.

I have to be brutal here with you EC, I may be wrong, I hope I am, and if so I'm happy to be corrected.

My feeling that he is with you for some perceived gain, passport, a better life or he thought you had money.

So for the last few years he's been living with YOU, and YOU bought the car, but he has put it in his name.

As I said, I don't know where you are, but in Egypt this is the number one scam the unsuspecting both foreigners and gullible Egyptians are caught with, Bat eye lids, buy me a car honey, it has to be in my name alone, cos of the, nationality, your identity, tax (yada, yada yada) and basically then when you are finished with, if nothing else, you have bought him a car. Some sharper foreigners will insist the papers are in their name, but the salesman will put the documents in the local person's name and as it's in Arabic, the foreigner doesn't know.

My guess is that he is bored, has realised you are not the cash cow he thought you would be and as he is not being worshipped, adored and his favourite traditional meals cooked on demand, sex on demand and unquestioning obedience of his every whim and desire, 24 hours a day.

He is very possibly playing the field, because he has been raised to expect to marry up to four women, all of them virgins and has probably tired of you. In my case, the local women targetted 'H' because he has money and out of hatred and jealousy that he has had the audacity to marry from outside the country.

He beats you because he can. He has not been raised with any affection toward women and has ZERO emotional intelligence.

Sorry, but I have seen this before. I hope that I am wrong. I just want you to see that really there is no redemption for this man, there is no chance you will ever see the person you fell in love with again, because that was actually an act. An act to reel you in, and hook you. Now he has done that, you are trapped there, he has lost interest.

Erm, hate to shatter your illusions Longtalljosie about all men. It's true, not all normal men who were raised in normal countries, where women are valued are violent cheaters.

However many, many men raised in these places know they have a right to be violent cheaters if they so desire. They don't see any wrong in it.

This story is taking place in an islamic country. whatever the koran says or doesn't say has been long forgotten when it comes the the basic rights of women. To be clear, this is not a bash at islam. Religion has nothing to do with the abysmal rights of women in these places, this is ingrained through generations of societal misogyny. It happens in both muslim and christian families.

Men in these societies are raised to see women as low beings, good for only a couple of things. Often they are treated as possessions. The boys are idolised and literally never, ever hear the word No. girls are mostly tolerated until they are old enough to serve their parents. As soon as they reach puberty, the fathers look to marry them off, before they can get up to any trouble. And let some other man take the responsibility.

Until she is married the girl is often bullied by her father, and brothers if she has them. She won't be allowed out, she will be chaperoned, or she stays at home, has no male friends and is trained to be a wife from as early as possible.

The mother will not have any say in how her daughter is treated realistically, as she too is only a woman. She has no right to raise her voice to her H, and soon any son she has will treat her as his father, her husband always has done.

The wife is further undermined by her ILs. Literally, the man's family takes over her life when she marries. This breaking of her bonds with her family further weaken her position, weaken her access to any shred of support, and isolate her from the only family she has. She in turn will do the same to her DIL, because that is the way things are done. She will be beaten, she will put up with it, because she has no other option.

That's the background. Not pretty is it?

What is EC to do?

OK so we all agree to panic, if you are in no immediate danger, is not a good idea.

PLEASE, remember that the car is just a car, the house/flat is just a rental. Your life and your freedom, your happiness is worth more than any house, more than any car.

You need to be ice cold clinical in this, the next few days, and you must be prepared at a moment's notice to flee, because literally you have no idea when and if he will blow again. If you have ever read Betty Moody's Not without my Daughter, then you'll know how much nerve she had to have to get herself out of her predicament. Your task is easier than hers, so if she can do what she did, you can do what you need to do.

You need to be on stand by. Until the day you leave. If you can ask your friend for a safe place to come to if you need it, at any time day or night, it might be a good idea. You know the police are not an option, you need to think for yourself.

Photograph the bruises.

Get your bag together, get some cash, get the funds for a flight together, from anyone if you have to. Store the bags at your friends.

Give notice on the flat, get help to do this from your friend or someone at the embassy if you need to, and don't tell buggerlugs.

sod the car, it's a lost cause. If you are to pursue this transfer, he could harm you

Get someone to take the cat for you temporarily if need be, if you really want to bring your cat to the UK, perhaps your friend can help with this once you are settled back home. you are the priority here.

Once you have the date you need to leave the flat, book the flight for a week or so before and arrange to get to the airport.

Leave a Dear John letter for buggerlugs, telling him when he needs to vacate the property and go.

LittleMissHissyFit · 11/11/2010 22:42

Shitty grammar in places, sorry, tired... Blush

Longtalljosie · 12/11/2010 07:47

LMHF - I said all, not many. I know some men are violent, I was in a relationship with one. Perhaps I am guilty of poor syntax - although you couldn't possibly have thought I meant there was no such thing as a violent man? But I concede saying "Not all men are violent cheaters" would have been better. But I was responding to EC's statement that perhaps all men are like this. She needs to know that they aren't or she'll convince herself that's the best she can do.

LittleMissHissyFit · 12/11/2010 09:45

Oh LTJ, hope I didn't offend.

I meant to say that in societies like the one I lived in, MOST were predisposed to violence as it's not seen as a bad thing.

Men see it as a right, women see it as something they have no choice but to accept.

Seeing as there is no Woman's Aid, there is no support/welfare system, women there literally put up, shut up or pretty much starve.

EC has to consider the possibility of 'All men out there ^may' be violent cheaters. The probability is WAY higher than it is in western society.

EC, get yourself home love. In time you will see that normal people do exist, and that men and women can be trusted.

I'm back 18m, I still find it hard to meet a male gaze, still walk around not focussing on anyone's face, for fear of the look being taken the wrong way, as an invitation/come on. Still battling the urge to run home and hide sometimes.

Longtalljosie · 12/11/2010 09:51

No not at all LMHF.

Actually, your last post has really brought it all home to me. Because although factually I knew everything you were saying was the case in some societies - the last paragraph when you say you still find it hard to meet a male gaze, and that you have the urge to run home and hide? It just makes my blood run cold Sad

LittleMissHissyFit · 12/11/2010 10:21

LOL, tell me about it!

Have been reading more of EC posts/threads.

EC OK so your company sponsors your house, the car loan is in your name, but the car is registered to your H. Insurance Co won't apparently like you to change. That may be bollocks, depending on who told you that.

As I see it, 2 options.

One, you go home for a Christmas visit and don't go back. This is at least the perfect time to come back, anyone would expect you to make the trip home and it would totally avoid suspicion. No-one would be suspicious at all, so you wouldn't get any difficulty in getting out.

Beg or borrow the cash from your family to get the ticket, tell your work that your family want you home for a special announcement, and tell them you have no idea what it is, but have no way of getting out of it. Offer to go on unpaid leave if you have to. Give the cat to someone to look after and then you can look into shipping her over to you when you are settled.

OR

If you have a sympathetic western boss

Tell work your situation, tell your H is beating you, tell them that you are suffering mentally and are trapped in the house, car situation and don't know what to do. Beg them for their help.

TBH, the second option is not really that ideal. It depends on a person really understanding the hole you are in and taking pity on you. It means that you need to be working with an angel, someone that you know will support you and go to battle for you.

If it weren't for the cutting you have spoken about, and the woeful state of your self esteem, I'd possibly say that you could go for the 2nd option, but I fear that you have been brought down to far by living with this emotionally stunted individual. I worry that you may not be strong enough to go into this battle.

You are also 25, I think it often takes until you are in your 30s to realise that it's OK to stand up and say, Er actually, NO! I am not doing this that and the other, and I am NOT being abused by anyone and then leaving.

I am 42. I had this shit from 31ish and it took me until now to realise that I have to stand up for myself, and that I can say NO, and mean it. (OK i was slow.. [blush)

I also now realise that when I say NO, if I'm not listened to, I am being disrespected and that is unacceptable.

So do a flit, go AWOL.

What's the worst that can happen? You come home you won't have a job, they can sue you technically, but if you show them pics of your injuries and tell them what happened, I can't think a court would rule against you.

Also remember once you are home, Women's Aid can help advise you how to fight any legal action as you had to flee for your own safety and have the marks to prove it.

Longtalljosie · 12/11/2010 11:42

The thing is, EC, this is your life. You don't get to go back and have another go. Your children, once you have them, deserve to have a father who isn't a philandering violent thug. And they deserve to grow up in a society which treats men and women equally. You can achieve this for them.

Listen to LMHF. You know she's making sense... I also know this must seem impossible, your self-esteem will have taken such a battering. But somewhere inside you is the strength to get out of the burning building.

LittleMissHissyFit · 15/11/2010 22:53

EC, I know it's Eid, but how are things with you? I see you have been posting here and there around MN, are you OK?

SeaGreen · 19/11/2010 12:56

bump

EternalCynic · 20/11/2010 09:06

Hi all, thanks for asking after me. I'm ok - have made contact with a family member who lives where I do, but who I haven't seen for a long time. Family is making plans to help me sort things out financially. My mother spoke to H over the phone and since then he has been far more calm, on the one occasion I have seen him.

I am devastated...I think it's normal. Weirdly, I'm more devastated at the thought of other women than what happened. Logically that sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Perhaps it's natural instinct, I have always known I couldn't put up with infidelity, as I'm too jealous by nature to ever be able to forgive and move forwards.

I have had a couple of nights where I've just driven around, thinking of crashing the car into something. I did go to a GP about this (can't afford psych which is not on insurance) and it was nice to just let everything out to someone totally impartial and uninvolved.

OP posts:
LittleMissHissyFit · 20/11/2010 13:48

EC, glad to hear you are opening up, glad to hear that H is calmer.

OK so you have stated that you will not put up with infidelity. You know they think on some level it's their right to do this. You know you are flogging a dead horse.

Allow me to remind you. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAILURE, you have done nothing wrong, and it's not that you are not enough for him, it's that he doesn't appreciate you enough, because he has not been brought up to.

Please sit yourself down, be your own best friend for a second and ask yourself,

"Why would a young woman, with her life ahead of her, take her own life because her H is not emotionally intelligent enough to be faithful, honourable?"

This is not YOUR failing, it is his. He had a shot at the big leagues - with you - and he failed. HE BLEW IT. You don't need to lower yourself to put up with this shit, you are worth a million times what he is worth, just you remember that.

I am deeply worried about your mental state, I personally want to know you out of there as soon as humanly possible.

Is your family planning to pay off what needs to be paid off and then you can come home? (fingers crossed).

If you can do this, all well and good, otherwise what (seriously) would be the implications of just leaving and not going back.

You do need to see if you can find this out, because it might still be the best option.

Please don't drive around in a distressed state. If your country is anything like Egypt, and the "standard" of "driving" being so dreadful, you will need your wits about you at all times behind the wheel.

Please keep yourself safe, I've seen the advice you give to others here and there, and you are a great MNer, a real asset. We intend to keep you around for a a good long while yet....

Stay strong, we are all rooting for you, and don't forget that there is always someone here on MN, 24 hours a day that will help you if you are in a crisis.

Use AIBU if you need a fast response.

CarGirl · 20/11/2010 13:57

Keep your passport on you at all times and enough cash to get a taxi to the british embassy. Please don't take risks.

LittleMissHissyFit · 21/11/2010 13:34

EC, Can I ask you a favour?

Click on the link at the top of the page I Started and have a really good read.

Looking at all the sterling advice you give around MN, (not stalking, Grin just you are now on my radar, and I notice your posting name) What, out of interest would you tell yourself?

You are a really bright, empathetic, warm and a really friendly person. You can figure out what needs to be done and do it. You just need to believe in yourself.

Don't for a second think that you have failed, and to go home would be a shame. You were hit, strangled and had a knife held to your throat.

To stay a second past a minute after that happens is just daft, and you need to line up whatever needs to be lined up to get you home. Don't let that pig anywhere near you again. Fast track everything you need to, to get home.

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