do I just suck it up?

[elephantsaregreen]

so my dh and I were together for 3 months when we got pregnant accidentally. Now 5 years later we have two kids and a house and a whole life together. He is a good man, I love him, I'm attracted to him and he is an excellent father.

Thing is, he is a crap boyfriend. No romance, no intimacy, he is the 'ultimate' man of few words. I need emotional connection and intimacy like it's air and I have told him I feel like I am cutting off a limb by giving that up. But we have a good life together. We enjoy each others company. but something is missing for me.

Do I just suck it up, for the sake of the family, the kids? and yes, of course, I have talked to him about this. Except he doesn't 'talk'. He lets me talk and barely responds. Eventually I get tired of hearing the sound of my own voice and shut up. a couple of days go by, I get tired of being angry and things go back to normal. He flat out refuses to go to counseling with me.

I have recently reconnected with an old friend/boyfriend who lives on the other side of the world. and it was such a reminder of how much I have compromised emotionally. I mean, dh and I barely ever touch now. literally maybe a peck on the lips good-bye in the morning. I'm tired of initiating contact and it doesn't feels as though it's not 'natural' for him if that makes sense. Sex is infrequent, but it is (very) good.

I would love to hear from some other people in long-term relationships who may have some insight.

and yes, I think he was like this before we had kids, I just didn't have much time to figure that out (otherwise I probably wouldn't have stayed in the relationship). He barely has a relationship with his family.

So what do I do? Do I get real and come to terms with this and understand that this is the reality of real life? Or do I deserve more/better?

Mostly everything in the relationship is great, but this little thing, well it carries a lot of weight for me. Most of the time I feel fine, but every now and then, like now, I feel like I'm starving.

I have one similar to this.

He's everything I want in a man and I see his less emotional/analytical nature as grounding. This is generally a good thing - a positive for me, it creates balance.

We aren't at odds in our level of care for each other, we just have very different ways of displaying it he practically and I emotionally.

Sex is out of this world. Sometimes frequent, sometimes not so but always fantastic and always a clear display of the ultimate and extensive affection between us.

That's an insight into my take my similar situation.

Overall, I am very happy although I can relate to the starving you mention but I also acknowledge that I can potentially be quite needy in terms of emotional reliance.

This is a need I am learning to meet myself ...and he meets absolutely every other need or want I have had so far - and I hope I do for him. He seems happy anyway!

Understand where you are coming from but ultimately he is the one that is there - getting pregnant after 12 weeks can't have been the best start and the old boyfriend is an old boyfriend for a reason.

Can you initiate things that might make you both more intimate on a day-to-day basis (I'm not talking about sex here)? Are there any triggers for him to open up etc.

I'm a bit of a personality psychology geek. I think your dh, OP, is a very introverted, thinking type of personality. You, on the other hand, use a lot of extroverted feeling. My relationship is like this, but the other way round. I know that my dh does not get the level of emotional intimicay that he wants. The fact is that that kind of intimacy makes me feel panicky and want to pack my bags, get out and get some fresh air. What we do have in common is that we are both highly intuitive ideas people, and the craic when we are bandying crazy philosophy over a glass of wine is brilliant.
So, I never look my dh in the eyes and tell him that he moves my soul. But I do practical things, little comforts: for the last 15 years I have brought him a cup of tea to wake up to. This is an act of love that he almost certainly doesn't notice.

I reckon your dh will never deliver you a hand-composed poem with a soulful look and s single perfect rose. You can't change that, it's who he is. It might be worth looking for the practicalities of what he does for you, and see those as the expressions of love that he can provide. The only person in this that you can actually change is you, and if this remains a deal breaker, then you have to break it. Personally I suspect you are missing a lot because you aren't seeing what you want to see, and are not looking at what you can see. You need to look for other positive things, and shouldn't consider breaking this deal.....but it's time for reflection, sure.

Can you walk up to him and give him a hug or a kiss when you feel like it, without expecting anything in return. Im very much a 'cold fish' but after a few years of this being done to me, I sometimes even do it back!

Well it depnds what you mean with 'doesn't talk'. Is it that he doesn't talk about feelings? or he doesn't do lengthy conversations with you (whatever the subject)? Do you actually spend some time together doing things you both enjoy (acn be a great way to be intimate wo talking iyswim) or is it more like there is no feelings left at all?

I think that you can find ways to be intimate in ways that can both make you confortable but I am wondering if there isn't something else behind.

A lot of men are emotionally inhibited. I have been married for 20+ years and my DH has never been comfortable talking about his feelings, or my feelings, for that matter. Or anyone's feelings.

You will not be able to change him because that is who he is. As fire says, it makes a difference if he can communicate about other things. My DH and I talk about all sorts of things so it kind of makes up for it, and also I'm not particularly emotional myself. If your DH is just plain tactiturn about everything than I can see how that could be a problem for you.

I think that it is inevitable that you will lose some of the intimacy as the relationship gets older. I know a lot of people will disagree, but it does happen to many. It's something you have to work at and again, it isn't something that comes naturally to a lot of men.

Hi all
Thanks for the responses.
To add: I do notice and acknowledge the daily niceties like cups of tea and I realise he does things like look after the garden, very practical things in other words.
I often say thank you, tell him he's hot and stuff. But he never and I do mean never compliments me, never tells me I'm nice, hardly says thank you for stuff, like sorting out all our holiday arrangements. I just feel like he doesn't really notice me. If I go away, he is exactly the same way as soon as I am back, like he didn't miss me.
I can live with him being quiet and introverted but even when we do have conversations (which aren't about kids/house) they are short, he's not really intersted in my opinion, rather he just wants to tell me what he thinks (more monologue than dialogue). He isn't a strong communicator and I am. Which can create tension. I can over-talk about our relationship but that's mainly because he doesn't contribute one iota to that conversation.

I don't care if I never get a hand-composed poem, but y'know, a 'hey you look nice today' would be awesome.

I can walk up to him and give him a hug but it last's a micro second and I can tell he would rather be doing something else.

Sex is infrequent and very very mostly at my initiative.

I can handle that we are different but it hurts that he doesn't acknowledge my pain, because he can't. He just shuts down.

So lately I've just been existing and behaving as he does. No contact. and everything is going smoothly. So what that tells me is that when I bring this up, he will be totally surprised. He will be thinking that everything is fine, while I feel totally disconnected.

I realise that I am being a little melodramatic. It's just hard to imagine the rest of my life without a deep emotional connection with my life partner.

Men are from Mars...

You seem rather unrealistic.

"He is a good man, I love him, I'm attracted to him and he is an excellent father" so go and read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. Sometimes pop psychology is what you need, not an idea from MIlls and Boon.

Mills and Boon? What's that?

I am probably being unrealistic. I'm just really aware that life with him feels alot more like good flatmates as the emotional side of things is entirely unfulfilling. I'm posting about this because I'm keen to find out if others have similar experiences in long-term relationships.

Elephants, I could have written your posts. I'm in a similar situation, I don't expect to change my DH, just wish he'd understand that an emotional connection would be nice. There's a whole backstory to it (I'll leave that out for now, as this is your thread) but your description of your DH as a flatmate is exactly how I see my DH.

That was a bit of a ramble, I wish I could offer some help or advice, as just bumbling along in a passionless relationship is no good for anyone...as if you didn't know that.

sorry, I haven't read the whole thread

but I have decided to stay single rather than get into a relationship where "something's missing"

I'm just not willing to compromise regarding what I want from a man, sometimes I question myself but ultimately I know I can't do it.

But having said that, I do know that not everybody is like me - in fact I don't know ANYBODY who is like me!

I don't know any other single women - all my friends and family are in relationships and put up with stuff because he/she is a good person, and it's mostly a good working relationship/marriage

I just know that wouldn't work for me. You have to decide whether it's going to work for you or not

Elephants, marriage isn't supposed to be a life sentence. The marriage counsellors always say that the question you should be asking is : "is this good enough"? Obviously all long-term relationships require compromise, but if you have major and important needs that aren't being met, and there isn't much chance that they will ever be met, then I think you will have difficulty sustaining this in the long-term.

It sounds as if he's already quite disconnected from you - you mention him not being interested in your opinions and the sex being mostly on your initiative. It sounds very much like a one-way street and this is bound to leave you feeling resentful and unhappy. If you're feeling like this after only 5 years, can you imagine another 20 or 30 of the same? Don't stay in the marriage just for the children. It won't be good for you or for them.

Elephants, mines like this.
Im staying cos I love him.
It didnt work with more connected passionate men, it works with dh.
I know he loves me, he shows it every day in practical, helpful ways.
Keep instigating affection, keep at it, he will thaw as time goes by.
With the ex thing, I think it could be a case of the grass is greener, you always yearn for what you havent got and I know if I was with my ex I would be wishing he was more reliable.

You can't change something as basic as this in a person - you have to either come to terms with the fact that he will never give you this part of the relationship, and decide whether the rest of it is worth it, or leave. I know that sounds awful :(

(I agree with you aristomache but it took me a long time to get to that point)

I guess OP you need to work out if you can fulfil your emotional needs elsewhere, perhaps through friends, or your children (be careful not to put pressure on them though) - and whether this is enough. As Frog says, can you imagine another 20, 30 years of this, or even more? What if you are married until you're in your eighties? And the big question - what if you meet someone during that time (and let's face it, it's likely) who clearly meets your emotional needs, and is kind, and goodlooking, and all the things your DH is, that is going to be a very very difficult situation for you. What would you do?

I feel your frustration. DP is probably an introvert and I am very much an extrovert - 98% of the time but the 2% I can find it wildly frustrating and, if I'm feeling vulnerable for other reasons, it sends me into a spiral of doubt. In every way he's my best friend/soul mate/love of my life but now and then the intro/extrovert aspects of our personalities does become apparent and it can be hard.

I'd always say don't have an affair but I'm violently opposed to infidelity (not actually violently). Have you told him this theory and when it causes a problem for you can you rationalise that this is just how he is?

I have to say I was married to a man like this.
In the early years I used to cry with frustration at how lonely I was in the relationship. He was a 'stonewaller' too, I begged him to share with me any degree of emotion or feeling but he just wasn't able too.
In later years I learned to live with it; getting the emotional intimacy I needed from my children and best friend. That meant however that when he iniciated sex, I couldn't respond it seemed the only way he could show affection.
In every way he was a good man, honest and reliable and my friends thought I was so lucky to have him.
At the time I thought that it was my fault I felt this way, maybe I had married too young, had children too quickly but looking back on it now I realise he was to blame.
I am divorced now and have had a couple of relationships since but as aristomache said, have decided that I would rather stay single than compromise something that is so important in a relationship.

I would never tell someone lightly to up sticks and leave but imo men like this never/can't change and forever is a long long time.

I feel so much better after this last lot of posts. Thanks to all of you. I have been kind in describing him because I do love him, but my best friend wouldn't be so kind. I mean, I look across the room and see him and think, yup, I wanna be with him. But we have zip emotional and bugger all intellectual connection. Both which are huge aspects of my personality. And his complete inability to talk about this stuff breaks my heart sometimes. So my attraction to him is largely physical/chemical. But he is funny and creative and that goes a long way too.

I've never really admitted this out loud, but I was planning to break up with him when I found out I was pregnant. and so we stayed together because it all seemed 'meant to be'. Our girls are great. They are amazing people and I don't regret bringing them into the world. I am also not planning on leaving dp anytime soon as they are still very young. 4, 2.5

I would never call dp my soulmate, but I do love him and I know he loves me, in his way. I know he is capable of affection because he is fantastic with the kids. But I am feeling a bit less loving towards him, over time. But I really appreciate him and all he contributes to this family.

I meet my intellectual needs with my friends but my emotional needs are sorely unmet.

And Bertie, I've also been thinking about what would happen if I met someone else, who seemed to offer me everything I'm missing. I'm starting to think about what leaving would be like. I'm not interested in sex with others, it's really just that I want to be with someone who sees me and understands me or at least tries to.

I don't support 'cheating' on partners, but I do think that in some cases negotiated extra-marital relationships can help the primary relationship, but in my case that seems impossible.

I turned down his marriage proposal because a part of me never thought he would be 'the one' (Which I don't really believe in anyway) but also because I don't think marriage is for me.

Ok I'm rambling now.... but here is a different question.

I totally agree that the 'grass is greener' and the ex is ex for a reason bits... but... what if a long-distance email-based emotional relationship helps me remain in this relationship more easily because I get my emotional itch scratched? I described this email exchange to my dp in it's early stages and he didn't give two hoots about it really. Maybe it would let him off the hook?

Or am I just justifying it to myself. I do plan to talk to dp about the emails to see how he feels. He has a right to know imo.

Aristomache, you've just met another one! I miss the easy intimacy & background support that you can (should) get from a primary relationship. In truth, though, I felt lonely in my marriages. I can't see the point of being in an intimate partnership with someone who doesn't do intimacy - obviously there's a sense of something missing: intimacy! I don't have it now, alone, either. But there's nothing missing iyswim.

Elephants, I've known a few couples whose marriages are fairly impersonal partnerships, rather than 'relationships'. They say they're not particularly happy, but neither unhappy. It works for them. I don't wish to live like that - I think it creates a grating atmosphere and, of course, there are concerns about fidelity. But I agree you need to decide what you want and what to do about it: wishing he were different can ruin your life if you let it. Have you thought about getting some counselling to help you figure yourself out?

Cross-posted. You won't be surprised to hear I think having the email affair to 'scratch your emotional itch' is a barmy idea. It won't scratch any itches, it'll just give you one more thing to wish for & be unable to fulfil.

Interesting that your best friend wouldn't say you were particularly fortunate - and that you weren't keen on marrying him. Are you answering your own question here?

Might you, on some level, be hoping that telling him about your emotional affair will prompt him to divorce??

ItsGrace - Interesting question but I don't really want to split up. (Not yet anyway). Even just on a practical level, it would be so difficult and financially it would be very hard on all of us.

I have been to counseling and I don't find it particularly helpful. It just confirms what I think and I'm not sure it's because it's a lazy counselor or if I'm right (Might look for a different counselor actually)

It's really helpful to hear that many other people have similar situations or at least that I'm not being totally unreasonable.

in regards to the email thing. I think it's a bit of a stretch to call it an 'affair'. At this stage, we are just having good, deep conversation about life. and making it clear that we enjoy eachothers 'company'. If there ever was one, he would be the 'soulmate'. So I suppose I am indulging in a little 'emotional/intellectual' connection. (But a future together would be unlikely due different circumstances)

I suppose that this reataionship is definitely good enough... for now, for the sake of the kids in their early years. but I imagine that I will choose a different path at some point. When being alone isn't quite a daunting.

I just feel I deserve a little more inspiration...

I would really struggle if I didn't get much response in conversations with my DH. We talk a lot - each day after work we both offload about our work days, the kids, current affairs and emotional stuff. There often isn't enough time to fit it all in. When we go out for dinner we are never stuck for conversation, not always good though as my DH has depression type feelings and we spent our last evening out talking about how he feels about life and his future and it was exhausting. But if I need to describe how I'm feeling he will listen and question me in a way which shows me he is engaged in my issue.

We have major relationship problems so it is not the be all and end all and I suppose a relationship is like choosing a house - you have to compromise somewhere on something, but I can understand your uncertainty over your future. I think I would really really struggle to be with someone who didn't talk much.

The emails with this guy sound a very bad idea. OK to have your needs met by other people, no one relationship should be depended on to meet all ones needs, but are you really sure you can protect yourself from forming a deeper bond? Imagine how you'll feel if you go on emailing and then he stops because a partner of his feels uncomfortable. You might be
gutted, you might miss your "connection" so much. Very easy for it to become more than just email chatting.

As SolidGoldBrass hasn't shown up yet, can I just point out that you can be perfectly co-operative parents without being in a couple relationship?

You sound like you are squashing part of your soul to stay in this relationship, and that isn't viable over time.

Well said, BOF. OP, there's a difference between compromise and sacrifice, you know ... maybe you do need to talk this through some more. With your best friend, by the sound of things.

"I suppose this relationship is good enough for now... I imagine I will choose a different path at some point, when being alone is not so daunting"

I think you need to be clear with your partner that you are planning to leave when the children are older, so that he has all the relevant facts on which to base his own decisions about the relationship.

Fair enough point Lizza. I have had these kind of conversations with him before. About how I'm worried that we won't make, that I don't want to live my life wishing for something differen, how that's not fair on him either and his response? You guessed it. Nothing.