"Working" at a relationship - what does this mean?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I often read about long term relationships being "hard work" or the necessity of working at a marriage. Excuse my total idiocy but what does this mean, exactly?

Oh yes I'm not so unreasonable to dismiss the idea of working on a relationship, friendship etc. out of hand.

My reservation is purely and simply, that women are told ad nauseum that they need to work at their relationships and they do. While men in general are not told that and don't. Or if they do, they don't do so as much as women. Like housework really. They simply don't feel as responsible for ensuring that the relationship is good and happy and fulfilling and functional, as women do. Because they aren't told they are. Like laundry, relationship maintenance is woman's work.

(Disclaimer: Of course there are exceptions to this)

HerBeatitude, I think that's only true when "working" is the SGB less positive definition. When "working" is sucking it up when your partner does something that consistently annoys you or is agreeing to give up something to spend time together, I think that's more likely to go both ways.

I find relationships hard work, but that doesn't mean I don't want one or can't hold down a very good one. (No bloke in the dynamic to throw the gender angle in.)

I think all relationships should be a bit of work to keep things fresh and interesting. Complacency is the death knoll.
I agree with the 10 good things vs 1 thing that needs work theory.

I'm wondering at what point in my life I was told "ad nauseum" that I had to work at my relationships

You're right about exceptions, but I think they are more widespread than you suggest.

I guess I find myself "working" at my marriage when I have to politely and as kindly as I can, point out to my dh that xyz behaviour is not acceptable to me, even though his ex-wife accepted it for umpteen years, when really I want to write it across his forehead with a chainsaw.

Luckily, he does take it on board - he actually admitted one time that he is having to learn what I will tolerate. Which makes me damned certain to be very clear just what I will tolerate.

The fact that he is willing to listen and change makes it worth while. If he didn't give a damn and refused to admit that there was ever anything wrong with his behaviour I would be running a mile.

Maisie the media is full of messages that we have to work at our relationships. Just look at the problem pages of newspapers and magazines and look at the articles in women's magazines and compare them to the articles in men's magazines. I don't think Nuts is full of advice on how to make your relationship work, is it? It's a long time since I looked at Nuts so I assume that although it might have the occasional article about how to make your partner happy in bed, it probably has rather fewer about how to make her happy outside the bedroom. I could be wrong though, if any regular Nuts reader would like to drop by and let us know, I'm all ears.

Mumsnet itself has an undercurrent that women should be working harder at their relationships than men

That demonstrates to me how pervasive the message is

Thankfully, some people try to deconstruct that bollocks whenever they see it

For me, working at a relationship is by definition something that both people have to do. Work means "not easy" to me (vs "not enjoyable"), and not easy means, for example:

• breaking unhelpful habits that have accumulated over the years
• saying what's really bugging you but taking the time to find the helpful not harmful way of doing it
• actively seeking new ways of having fun together and rekindling lost old ones (sex, for example...)
• most difficult of all, deciding to change who you are, for the better. I don't agree with people who say "you shouldn't have to change yourself to be in a relationship". There are aspects of me that I don't like -- I can be lazy, I can be shy, I can be over-the-top, etc. I want to work on those things.

i think we naturally treat those closest to us the worst - often we treat our partner terribly compared to how we treat our friends.

to me 'working at my marriage' just means remembering not to lash out at him and use him as a punchbag when things are stressful and horrible, yes he will take it cause he loves me but he shouldn't have to and because i love him i try to treat him well.

"he actually admitted one time that he is having to learn what I will tolerate"

oh christ

Fortunately these magazines and messages pass me (and thousands of other women) by. They feed willing readers all sorts of shite - diets, fashion, make up. Depends if you're the sort that accepts that or not.

Slhilly makes some good points - acknowledging that some parts of your relationship may take more work than others doesn't make you subservient imo; it means that you recognise when things need improving and you do something about it. As long as it's not a one way street, then that can only be a good thing.

That's my problem though - too often, it is a one way street.

As I say, I don't oppose the principle of working at a relationship. I do however, get jittery about the fact that in our society, it is women who are primarily dumped with the task of working at the relationship. There simply is no comparison between the messages that men get versus the relationship that women get. It's not just magazines, it's films, TV, pop music - everywhere, there is an inbuilt assumption that the long term health of a relationship, is women's work. It's easy not to notice it because our culture is so saturated with it, but it is there and you don't have to look too hard to find it.

I think if you're going to judge male culture by the messages given out on the Nuts problem page, FGS, that's a bit of a straw man, frankly. Most couples who get on find they both work on the relationship, in equal but different ways - and in positive ways. It doesn't have to be "hard" work.

No I'm not just judging it by Nuts UD.

I'm judging it by all the other things I mentioned - books, TV programmes, films, pop songs...

Well, you mentioned Nuts, not me. How is that relevant?

Anyway, even taking into account what you say above, I still disagree. My considerations of how hard I need to work on my relationship are not guided by the way Lucas North treats his women, or the relationship dynamics of Downton Abbey, or Alesha Dixon's verdict on how often her do-nothing boyfriend washs up and brushs up (sic), and I don't think DW's are either...

That's nto the point UD.

I'm talking about a whole culture which tells women that they are responsible for the maintenance of relationships.

Just because some of us don't take any notice of that culture, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I mentioned Nuts as a slightly ironic juxtaposition to women's magazines.

I can only go by my experience, which is that in the successful, healthy relationships I have known, both parties "work" (which as I have made clear is distinct from it "being hard work"). If someone thinks that it isn't the case that both parties work, that's their experience and I can't argue with it. But I'd argue that, if that's the case, it's probably based on observing unsuccessful, unhealthy relationships...

If people's perception of the way they need to work on their relationships is influenced by the way such relationships are fictitiously portrayed in popular culture, that might suggest they need to ignore that and work a little bit harder.

I dont feel that I have ever been told to work on relationships. Perhaps I'm reading the wrong magazines.

Is there perhaps a greater effort required by people who come to relationships later in life? Perhaps when they have come from relationships which failed or from hugely successful relationships after being widowed? I can see that being a bit set in one's ways or defensive could make a new relationship feel like they need a lot of effort.

In my experience when a relationship requires too much effort then it is too much hard work and it is time to end it.

Posted too soon.

What is too much can depend on the relationship. I would cheerfully move heaven and earth to be with DH right now - I'm stuck in an airline lounge thousands of miles from home and my flight has been delayed.

My relationship with DH has just grown over the years. It never feels like work.

HerBeatitude - I've never felt (and I'm struggling to imagine that any of my friends have) as if I've been told that women alone have to work at their relationships, either by 'society' or by the media, and there are just as many pop songs written by men which bemoan the state of their relationships.

I also disagree that "too often it is a one way street". I know that our opinions are shaped by our experiences, and if that's your experience then you have my sympathy. However, from my experience, and from those of my friends and peers, healthy relationships work both ways, with both parties compromising and working towards the middle ground - and that can be extremely difficult at times, which is where the 'work' comes in.

Maybe it goes back to 'cavemen times'. Men are the hunter-gatherers. Women, the nurturers, primary care givers of the children, keeping the family unit together, whereas men can go out and sow their seeds in numerous places, women had the children as their primary role and it was in their vested interest to stay with the father of their children .........

It's maybe out there. but so are Nuts and that ilk. If you want to accept it, then fine - it's a free world. Most rational adults know that it's nonsense and ignore, or treat it with a healthy dose of cynicism.

I think there is a lot of confusion on here between working at healthy relationships ie compromising, accepting of less than perfect behaviour and a determination to get through the bad times because the relationship is worth it - on the part of both parties, and unhealthy relationships which make both or one party unhappy, which require a lot of work for not much reward.