Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Triggers for emotional detachment? WWIFN?

49 replies

purplehatpipeandboots · 02/11/2010 15:25

I've been really interested to read WWIFN posts regarding affairs on several threads but didn't want to hijack any of them so thought I'd be brave and start my first thread. Apologies if I get the etiquette wrong.

Until I started reading some of these threads, I subscribed to the idea that 'people in happy marriages don't have affairs'. I now see that this isn't necessarily the case.

It makes perfect sense to me that there are definite early stages to having an affair - e.g. emotional detachment. But I'm less clear on what triggers this desire to detach? If the affair itself or the conscious desire to have an affair comes later, what happens to trigger this emotional detachment? Does that make sense?

I mean where does the urge to re-engineer your relationship to make cheating possible come from? I don't really understand how a person goes from (a) happy and content in a relationship to (b) withdrawing / actively changing the situation to make infidelity a 'permissable' option.

I don't think I've explained that very well - hope someone knows what I'm trying to get at!

Really not trying to be confrontational btw, just genuinely don't understand that 'bit' of the process which otherwise seems bang on the money (I've been there).

OP posts:
thatsnotmyfruitshoot · 02/11/2010 16:04

I wonder if it's sometimes circumstantial. I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the men we talk about on here have very young dc's, tend to be aged in their mid thirties, work long hours etc.

I think very often a combination of home stress plus being in the right (or wrong) environment at work can increase the likelihood of temptation - affairs were utterly rife in my old office, for example. It was pretty common for a man to have an office girlfriend plus an unsuspecting wife and dc's at home. Awful but true.

Have you read Shirley Glass' book, Not Just Friends? It's brilliant for explaining how these situations occur.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 02/11/2010 17:01

I agree that Shirley Glass's book describes this very well, but I have seen this happening at all stages of the life cycle, not just in 30-somethings with young children.

To understand this in all its complexity, it is necessary to look at a person's attachment style (people with a dismissive attachment style are more prone to infidelity), their lifestyle vulnerabilities (if their family, friends and workplace are tolerant of infidelity and there are many opportunities), their selfishness and sense of entitlement and then finally, their state of mind and view of themselves prior to the affair. In this type of affair too, it is hugely significant about whether the affair partner pursued the attachment; who made the first move.

If we use a male example, what often happens is that a man is feeling low and even mildly depressed about life. Responsibility might be overwhelming and his partner's attention divided (young DCs). An older man might be feeling less needed by teenage DCs and his competent wife. He might be feeling old, grey and out of potential, having hit a ceiling at work. He cannot in truth say that his wife wouldn't understand how he is feeling, because normally she would give anything to help him with these feelings and support him, but he doesn't want to admit to his wounded pride and hates talking about feelings, anyway. So he hunkers down and suppresses how low he is feeling.

He would say if anyone asked at this point that he loved his wife enormously and was happily married. He would laugh at the notion that he would ever have an affair.

In a terrible coincidence of timing, along comes someone who wants an affair with him. It might not be obvious at first and he is normally in complete denial about his own intentions. He just knows that the positive mirroring and stroking he is getting from this woman makes him feel good about himself, when he has been feeling so bad.

He pretends that this is just a friendship and is a nice distraction in a life filled with mundane responsibilities. It makes the day go quicker, except that he now looks forward to their interactions more eagerly. He is becoming addicted to the feelings, but he doesn't know it.

Because he is by now in the grip of an addiction to the feelings, if not the affair partner herself, all he cares about is that it keeps coming in plentiful quantities. He might not even need the affair to involve sexual activity, but he does need sexual flattery and adoration.

At some (often subconscious) level, he realises where this could be heading, but because his lifelong beliefs are that people don't do this when they are happily married, he again subconsciously realises that he must detach somewhat from his wife to create a gap to let the affair partner in. He is not someone who can have a strong emotional connection to the woman he is deceiving, so it is necessary to reduce it. So he starts to create a distance and a detachment, from what was once a happy and fulfilling marriage, to a woman he has always adored. In effect, he needs to adore her less because if he adores her, he cannot get his fix from the addiction that has now taken hold.

I cannot stress enough how entirely subconscious this is, in most cases. And so often, it takes a long time for a man in this position to get himself to the position when he can say "yes" to an affair. Slow-burning work friendships, or any other friendship, provide the time needed to detach emotionally from a happy marriage.

Once the self-permission is given, the man will often minimise its impact and meaning; telling himself that this is just a bit of escapist fun, no-one need ever find out and get hurt, it will never lead anywhere, it will be a fun adventure (maybe the last) etc. The guilt often doesn't kick in until physical infidelity has occurred.

In the final analysis, this affair has happened not because of anything to do with the betrayed spouse, or the marriage. It is all to do with the unfaithful party; their state of mind, their character, their personality. They might never have gone looking for an affair and they certainly didn't want their marriage to end, or affected in any way in fact. But when an opportunity arose, they had to do a number on their marriage to allow them to say "yes" and they did this after they had long since become addicted to the positive mirroring and ego boost.

This person is often as shocked as their spouse when it all ends messily and horribly and the real consequences are felt. It is also a massive surprise when they are able to detach from the affair partner very easily, but of course it really wasn't about this person at all, but the feelings she evoked.

Does this help?

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 02/11/2010 17:03

Having re-read your post OP, in short, it is the "addiction" that triggers the detachment, in an affair of this kind.

snugglepiggy · 02/11/2010 20:22

Thank you so much WWIFN- just shown your post to DH and he totally agrees that's what happened to him.Posted about 3weeks ago on other thread 'how long does it take' and 6 months on from DH's EA finally feeling happier and looking forward.Keep reading words of wisdom each day on MN but don't always want to post my own thoughts.But just wanted to say how clearly and concisely you sum up the addiction and sub-concious detachment issues.Read Shirley Glass myself recently-should have got it months ago.Told DH I would really like him to read too and he said he would ,but frustratingly it's sat by the bed for 2weeks untouched.He's just gone upstairs to get it and says he will read it from cover to cover -and even though we've been to counselling and repaired a lot of damage only now does he fully realize what led him into such an 'inappropriate' friendship - and how much worse things could have got.Feels to have been a long hard slog to get this far together-but thanks to posts like yours things making more and more sense and becoming easier and less painful ever day.

clam · 02/11/2010 20:29

WWIFN, I keep reading your posts on other threads and I marvel at your wisdom. I know it's been hard-earned, but you have helped so many people on here, so thankyou for the time and energy you put into your posts.
My DH and I are trucking along very well (I think!!! Grin ) but it's nonetheless very useful to read your insightful comments and learn what to look for and to nurture the relationship a bit more than perhaps I would have done otherwise.

ItsGraceAgain · 02/11/2010 20:59

That was a stupendous post, WWIFN. I've seen this story play out so many times: sane, happily-married people blindly putting one foot in front of the other, unaware of the lies they're telling themselves or the damage they are in the process of causing.

This was possibly your masterpiece!

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 21:20

With all due resp[ect WWIFN, bthis part of your post:
"In a terrible coincidence of timing, along comes someone who wants an affair with him"

is often shite.

Unless you were using sarcasm.

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 21:23

Is it the womans 'fault' for 'wanting an affair with him' ?

Or is it his penis extension for thinking 'this muff wants me to have her' ?

You have given men a long rope in that post. But not to hang themselves with.

ItsGraceAgain · 02/11/2010 21:26

Fair comment imo, UA.
"Along comes someone whose ego needs a bit of a boost, and finds that flirting with him gets the attention she was looking for" - the rest 'just happens' as we all know and WWIFN explains.

ItsGraceAgain · 02/11/2010 21:28

On the other hand, your ex seems to have gone out of his way to find further conquests. But he's barking; WWIFN was talking about your averagely nice man, I believe.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 02/11/2010 21:37

Well actually UA it was a terrible coincidence of timing in my case (please remember that you are posting to a real person here, who has been hurt, just like you).

The OW did E mail my H out of the blue one day, having worked with him over a decade previously, but they were both now in different companies, but had no contact since. In other situations I have known, this has started when the OW or the H joined the team, or the company. So yes, a terrible coincidence of timing.

I think it is both parties' faults, in the situation I describe UA. And also, this doesn't just happen to men - there are plenty of women who find themselves in the same situation.

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 21:38

Not talking about me exH here Grace.

That wanker is not the sum of my life. I had a few major wankers before him.

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 22:04

WIFN that post has to be the worst apologia ever, for a dp/H screwing around.

Men will be printing it out and sniggering with relief that somebody finally 'understood' and thus gave the poor lambs permission to go out and get some.

Because that is what many of them do: they seek it out. Then they bang away until they get bored or are discovered. If the latter, they concoct some sorry sob story such as 'but she came on to me' as you describe.

My sympathies go out to you WWIFN. Your posts are always fantastic. But maybe your view is coloured by your own horrid experience?
Mine is too. And, sadly, I would suggest that it is more likely that the penis searches out the muff than the other way round.

The bastards just lie about it.

[sad}

snugglepiggy · 02/11/2010 22:07

It was most definitely coincidence of timing in that OW in our situation had to call in at DH's work most days for several months due to a joint project between their two companies.Feel she was most cetainly looking for attention and ego boost - if not initially affair(being very generous to her here!)and circumstances conspired to help their 'friendship' develope.Drove me nuts initially when DH insisted he hadn't been looking for anything outside our marriage-but now see how she mirrored and flattered him subtly and that led to him withdrawing emotionally from me.Only in hindsight can we both recognise it was happening in tiny little steps- but over a period of months tht adds up to an EA and a lot of hurt all round.

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 22:16

So it was her fault then, and a case of bad timing? Sad

Not if you read it a different way.

Did you H say that she chased him and that it was just 'bad timing'?

Sometimes 'bad timing' is the bloke's phrase for 'my dick went for it'.

sorry to sound graphic.

What has happened to the girl now?

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 22:18

"DH insisted he hadn't been looking for anything outside our marriage-but now see how she mirrored and flattered him subtly and that led to him withdrawing emotionally from me."

diddums.

fortunately for him, you are very forgiving, gullible and lovely.

celticfairy101 · 02/11/2010 22:18

Yes but UA when a woman has an affair is it then a case of a 'muff' seeking out a penis?

I think it's wrong to suggest that women are objects for men to screw and have no mind of their own to resist. It takes two to tango. Feeling the addictions that lust gives is a powerful thing and the urge to resist is difficult. Whether you're male or female. Some people make a habit of it. Especially if they constantly get away with it.

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 22:28

I still say that this:

"DH insisted he hadn't been looking for anything outside our marriage-but now see how she mirrored and flattered him subtly and that led to him withdrawing emotionally from me." is intersting if n othing else.

What has happened to the woman her dh dumped?

celticfairy101 · 02/11/2010 22:31

She's a grown woman who knew exactly what she was getting herself into.

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 22:41

What happened to the woman her dh dumped? I am just interested that's all.

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 22:42

And also he was a grown married man in charge of his own cock.

UnlikelyAmazonian · 02/11/2010 22:55

"She's a grown woman who knew exactly what she was getting herself into."

Yes, but men have been known to lie to their prey about everything from being in a sexless marriage to having no bacon in the freezer.

In fact only when teased by an irresistible Siren are they forced to leave their wives and float away on a lagoon of unavoidable desire.

bollox. Also, rather more mundanely and less alluring-minxly, our new local Tescos is shit.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 02/11/2010 23:04

It's a shame this thread has gone like this, but UA, do you really think that in 2010, women don't ask for exactly what they want? Do you really think that men are the only ones who pursue relationships? Shock

That is blatant sexism.

And my post is no apology, UA. I have always said, whoever pursues whom at the start of the relationship, the other party could and should have said "No thanks." But whether you like it or not, it does actually matter how these things started and quite apart from the ridiculous notion that it is only men who pursue affair partners, lots of people including me, have proof that this was as described.

Calling other hurt women gullible is pretty nasty UA. And in answer to your question, in my case, the married woman in charge of her own vagina went back to her husband. It was the third time she had been unfaithful to him, that year alone.

quizling · 02/11/2010 23:08

Sometimes, men just get bored of their wives. And sometimes, wives just get bored of their husbands.

Eurostar · 02/11/2010 23:10

I agree with UA in some ways here. WWIFN's posts are an excellent precis of the Glass approach, which is a helpful one for some and true for some - but in no means for all and it's not really right to preach that this is always the way that things happen/must be dealt with. I do find the posts constantly clouded by a picture of a dehumanised and usually predatory woman (the "affair partner") who couldn't possibly be adored in a way that the wife is.

Swipe left for the next trending thread