Need help to prove an affair

[chocolatefinger]

Hi
Usual story here- regular name changer. Really dont want to be outed. I promise Im a regular contributer to a regular thread.

My H is having online liaisons/ affairs at the very least.

I became aware of a situation in July by chance, confronted him and he denied it, eventually he confessed (evidence was very clear). He woudlnt talk about it after that. Said he deleted the relationships and wouldnt do it again etc. Said he never saw anyone online.

He's always been quite guarded with his phone, email etc but in last few days its really stepped up. I've seen texts on his screen that he's been quick to hide from me. Phone is glued to him except when charging over night.

He is clearly a lying arse- that much I know but I cant confront with almost no evidence and my "hunch". I need some facts.This mornig I found him on another website called Wfor online flirting etc. He has been online recently and a member since our daughter was 6wks old.

Obvious routes-
phone- has pin lock, always at his side
email- not tried this as I know he changes his password regularly
laptop- has password- no chance of accessing.

Any other suggestions to help me prove this?

We have a small child and I'd like to leave and take her with me but he wont let me do that so really not sure what to do. I'd be better off financially without him once we sell house but short term would be tight if I rented somewhere.

Sorry head is all over the place.
Feeling sick

You don't need help proving an affair - the question you need to ask yourself is "Do I want to be in a relationship with someone who is deliberately secretive about online dating/flirting and someone who guards his phone".

Ask yourself what you want, it sounds like you don't want that - so leave. It always astounds me that women need 'proof' to leave - leave when it's shit for you.

It's shit, he is clearly hiding something and refusing to engage with you over it.

It's unlikely to be a surprise party for you so leave.

I agree - a) it's going to be bloody hard to prove given what you've said and b) why bother trying? You already know the score.

Re the "he won't let you" leave with your DC - that's not really his call, is it? Custody/access etc will be decided by the Courts, if it gets that far - if you are the primary care-giver then you're in an extremely strong position. Be reasonable over access from the off and hopefully he'll be reasonable too. So don't let that hold you back. Go and see a solicitor - they'll do a free half-hour's advice.

thanks. You are both right. Suppose I wanted more evidence to confront him with.

Re caring for our child- we both work full time and do a good share each of the care so its not naturally goingt o fall to me as primary care giver- athough I do a lot more stuff (washing, bathing, making she she has what she needs etc) but thats not so clear as one party being a home wiht a child for some days during a week.

He doesnt get to stop you leaving with your dd , this is just a tactic to keep you there.
As someone else says id see a soliciter , its quite possible to get him to move out you know if hes causing you distress .

I dont think you need any proof as such , as you know already , but i know the need to absoluteley know for certain. Will probably get flamed for this , but if you know what sites he is on you could always set up a profile or install a keylogger .

Keyloggers are illegal. If he gets it investigated properly during the divorce and finds out (not difficult) you will be at a disadvantage and could be prosecuted. Not worth it. You don't need proof, you know he's doing it. You can get divorced for whatever reason, don't need to prove anything.

google desktop isn't illegal.

I would install that, ask to use his laptop one evening sitting on sofa, download (easy) and check once in a while.

We used to use it when my teens were younger as DS had a habit of using inappropriate sites by using proxy servers!

TBH the secrecy, the PINs/passwords etc would seem odd in our relationship as we are open about everything.

Good luck....

set up a profile....see how far he's prepared to go. its the only way to catch him out.

what would happen if you got his sim card out? would it read in another phone?

either way....you need to leave,he's cheating,and not too bothered by the sound of it

you don't need to proove he is cheating. you know he is and you are the only person that needs to know. so what if he denies it? you don't need his permission to end a relationship. you don't need concrete evidence. it is enough that you are unhappy. that is all teh reason you need to leave.

prove

It might surprise you to know that what's happened already are grounds for divorce, i.e. unreasonable behaviour. You really don't need proof, because you know that he is unfaithful. His behaviour has resulted in your acknowledgement that he is "a cheating, lying arse" so when a relationship has hit this sort of low, it's time to leave.

Everyone's right - focus on you and what you want from a relationship. He doesn't have to give you a mandate to say this isn't it, does he? If you want to leave, that's just what you do. He cannot keep you there against your will. After that, all there is to sort out is a co-parenting relationship.

thanks everyone.

I've been talking to a one off telephone counsellor though my work. just realised the enormity of all this.

I feel devestated.

What about my daughter- I cant just take her surely?

As far as I'm aware, you're not allowed to kidnap your duaghter - ie, whisk her away and make it impossible for her to ever see her father. You can certainly go on holiday (for example) with her. You wouldn't have to tell him beforehand. He has no legal 'rights' to contact until you've settled it through the courts.

Glad you're getting some counselling. It's probably time to rope in any family & friends whom you can trust to be supportive. I suspect that, if you can fix up a decent short-term arrangement for yourself & DD, things will change pretty fast wrt your relationship. It would be wise to be a bit secret squirrel before you go - don't announce your plans; take copies of ALL your important documents and finances - including his personal accounts, if you can, pensions, insurances, etc.

This is a far more constructive use of your investigative powers than ferreting around in his fantasy world. Good luck.

One point, Keylogging software is NOT illegal at all. You can use it on your own computer, or a family computer with no worries. If the machine is his work laptop then that may be a different matter - it's the usage that is relevant, not the software itself.

www.inside-logger.com/legal_keylogger.html

Having said that, I agree with most of the above, it's the deceit that's the issue here, not your need for proof.

Thanks everyone.

I think I will avoid the key logging. He has a personal laptop that I need to gain access to and its all a bit weird. I dont want to stoop too low.

I've been so wary of telling anyone about this but today I've told a good friend who I know can be trusted plus hinted at issues with my sister (lives quite close by). So its all suddenly become very real rather than in my head.... thats quite scary tbh.

I need to have the conversation with him but I agree with getting things sorted first.

I dont have any Friends/ family me and DD can stay with so would need a short term let at least intially. I've already been looking at these locally (online only) and its all affordable just- with current commitments on house.

I need to have it out with him once I've got all this stuff in order- all very scary.

Can anyone help with order of events:
Im thinking this - does it sound right?

1. get paper work sorted (mostly done as I look after that stuff)
2. view a selection of properties on one day
3. have it out with him that evening
4. sign contract next day
5. move out with DD
6. mop up big horrible mess...

Im being very detatched about this at the moment- not sure how else to be really. I feel like Im writing a reply to someoene else's thread

I think top of your list should be getting some proper legal advice wrt your DD - you could try asking in the Legal topic here, or do the free half hour with a solicitor thing. At least find out where you stand so when you have the dreaded conversation you know the score. The best of luck with it all.

It looks like a plan to me. Well done for telling some people in RL :) I know it does feel weird and "it can't be happening to me" ... that detachment is probably going to help you stay sane during the crisis. Wishing you all good luck, and plenty of constructive support.

Forgot to add: if there's the slightest chance he'll flip out / hit you / smash up the house / lock you in / etc, you might need to demote no.3 on your list.

Does your friend know you both? How did s/he react?

Thanks- I will get proper advice I think. I will not let her go.

I think he will be v angry when I talk to him- I guess Im still thinking that there is chance we can resolve this- hence not signing the contract first...

I feel that this has all gone very fast

The told my friend via email (due to circumstances) and she knows us both quite well but she is my friend. She didnt react other than to offer her support- thought that was helpful and supportive.

I think I've got a few weeks of sorting to do.

oddly he has been more attentive today. Phoned me from work for first time in ages, and is being nice. I think he probably knows something is up- last night I couldnt be arsed to even speak to him.

I just wanted to add that aparet from this issue and a him havinga bit of temper going on- he is a model husband and dad. Thats what everyone see and will be hard to lose for me.

Everyone will eb shocked. We've only been married 3 yrs.

sorry for appalling typing.

Read back what you've written here. Apart from him being unfaithful, a liar and having a temper, he is a "model husband and Dad". That's how it might look from the outside, but he certainly isn't either of those things.

Don't be side-tracked either by a sudden return of "nice" behaviour. You are no doubt right that as soon as he realised something was up, he decided to turn on the charm offensive. It's not sincere though, is it?

Yes, I agree there's a chance he'll be shocked into reviewing his attitude to you & his family. You'll still have to do it to get a result, though - if you almost-leave and then backtrack, he's a lot more likely to assume he can keep you in line with a bit of low-level attention. In your real mind, do you think he's taking you for granted - and could be shocked into changing - or has he always been one foot in, one foot out of your marriage?
You could probably do with a few weeks of head space.

thatsnk WWIFN and ItsGrace.

There is a posibility he can be shocked into changing. I believe that- but I am not entirely sure I want to find out. I keep thinking what else is out there and how it might be so much better for me.

headspace is exactly what I need.

thank you everyone. MN is great

chocolatefinger - you know me from our other thread under a different name.

Just wanted to say the advice you've been given here is good. I'm sorry that it must feel so surreal and lonely.

In some respects, it doesn't matter about proving he's been doing this. The fact is that you know he has in the past, you strongly suspect him now and those two factors make the relationship broken as it is. That is the only evidence you need.

Maybe have a think about what your ideal outcome is to the situation. From your last post, is your ideal that he is shocked into changing and you stay together happily as a result? If so, the second question is whether you think either of those things is possible. If one is impossible, I'm afraid the relationship is not looking salvagable.

The other thing to bear in mind is that you need to do what is right for you (and DD as a result). What others may think looking in is irrelevant even though it may temporarily be hard.

I'll stop rambling (as usual!) and will keep in touch xx