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Relationships

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Original poster

What's the difference between "planning to get married" and being engaged ?

61 replies

birdietimestwo · 30/10/2010 14:50

Apart from an old-style proposal and a ring ?

A couple of weeks ago my DP and I went on holiday to celebrate trying to start a family. We've known eachother nearly three years and have lived together since February. He knows that I want to get married. I was hoping that he would propose on holiday but he didn't. On the last day I told him I'd be much happier starting a family with him if we were married, and he said that he did want to get married but the thought of being the "centre of attention" for a day gave him the horrors.

We basically left it that we will get married in the near(ish) future, next year or the year after next, but also (confusingly for me) that he will propose to me "properly" with a ring etc.

I'm 36 years old. Every man and his dog keeps asking me whether I'm engaged. A "friend" of mine asked me outright this morning, in a group of people neither of us knew very well . People keep asking me at work. I can hear my parents' held breath, but at least they have the decency not to ask.

So - what the hell am I supposed to say (apart from mind your own f*ing business, which I did recently say to someone very senior at work how now avoids me .)
I can't exactly say "well, we're TTC and plan to get married but he hasn't yet gone down on one knee or coughed up for a ring"

AIBU to be getting a bit annoyed ? Incidentally I don't doubt his committment, if anything I'm the one with the wobbles. I just wish he'd blooming well get on with it so that people will shut up and leave us alone !

Grrr. Sorry for vent and long post.

OP posts:

babylann · 30/10/2010 15:57

Perhaps just you two and a small handful of vip guests like parents and siblings and a best friend each.

Original poster

birdietimestwo · 30/10/2010 15:58

Again, spidookly, the situation is far from being one in which he "won't marry me". You have no idea about my financial circumstances, so don't make assumptions.

On the other hand, you are right that this is a ridiculous and silly situation. Howevever there are two of us in it and it's not something I can change, or want to change, by bludgeoning him over the head with demands and ultimatums.

I would have though it was obvious from my posts that I don't feel particularly great about it, so perhaps you could engage some compassion, or at least some basic courtesy, before responding.

OP posts:

Original poster

birdietimestwo · 30/10/2010 16:01

Sorry - crossed posts, spidookly you touched a whole bunch of rather raw nerves, sorry I overreacted. You do have a point.

OP posts:

pippoltergeist · 30/10/2010 16:02

Personally, I think the moment that a couple privately agree that they will get married (which you say you and your DP have done), then they are engaged. You have already made a commitment to each other (that you will marry) and a ring or a formal proposal doesn't really change what is in your hearts and intentions.

Unless, of course, you think your DP is likely to try an renege on the agreement you have made together?

Original poster

birdietimestwo · 30/10/2010 16:12

Hi pippoltergeist no I don't think he will try to back pedal on it. He is not an *sshole. However he obviously doesn't consider our private committment to be an engagement that we make public (and frankly nor do I), otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned his plans to propose "properly".
In my view getting engaged is more about the public side of the relationship than the private one - which is why I'm not worried about his committment overall, IYSWIM.

OP posts:

pippoltergeist · 30/10/2010 16:24

In that case birdie, congratulations on being engaged...
Perhaps you can quietly get on with doing some background work on weddings - so you can move promptly once he has proposed. You might find there are unexpected, smaller venues available which would appeal to him more than a traditional do.

AnyFuleKno · 30/10/2010 16:33

I think Spidookly is right, your dp has put you in a vulnerable position really where you are waiting for him to decide it's the right time to get married. I don't know if I could tolerate it as good naturedly as you are. If he doesn't want to get married (as many people in this day and age) then he should say so and you can proceed in your relationship fully informed about the type of relationship it is.

If he does want to get married, just wants to sort out the details of how to do this in a way that feels right to both of you, he should do you the honour of letting you feel secure about it so that you can say to yourself and others 'Yes we are going to get married in the future'.

As it is, you're in limbo and from your original post it's clear that it's left you trying to work out where you stand, which is unfair.

perfumedlife · 30/10/2010 16:49

I agree with the sentiments spidookly expressed. I wouldn't want to ttc before marriage, or at least being engaged and planning the wedding. If that's how you feel, and it sounds like you would rather be engaged, why not discuss this with dp?

Having a child is a huge commitment so of course your dp is not trying to shirk his commitment. I think he just doesn't realise how important it is to you, and I dont think you realised yourself until recently. There is nothing wrong with being frank and telling him you would rather do this the old fashioned way. He most likely just doesn't know how you feel.

BEAUTlFUL · 30/10/2010 16:51

Spidookly is right. But YOU do have the power to control your situation. These are your words:

"On the last day I told him I'd be much happier starting a family with him if we were married"

SO WHY ARE YOU TTC WHEN YOU'RE NOT ENGAGED OR MARRIED YET?? If you find yourself in the situation of having this man's baby and not being married to him, it won't be his fault, it'll be yours for going ahead despite the no-proposal. Don't do what you don't want to do. Stop TTC until he's proposed.

I guess you don't want to wait that long? You're scared it'll be another couple of years, and then you might not be as fertile? Then move out. That'll speed it up.

My heart sank when I read that you'd moved in together despite preferring to be married. What did you do that for?!

HabbiBOOOO · 30/10/2010 16:53

What do you think would happen if you proposed? I mean, formal, romantic, etc?

spidookly · 30/10/2010 16:57

There are 2 things that are unconvincing to me about DP's position:

1 if it is just the big hoo haa of a wedding he is not keen on then why insist on a "proper" proposal and engagement? Why not just quietly agree to have a small wedding and gradually tell the people who need to know?

2 surely the "properness" of the proposal is done? You have decided to live together as a family and have children - that's the romantic bit. Deciding to get married is just formalising that. A big proposal when you are already trying to get pregnant, or already ARE pregnant just seems a bit hollow, and verging on cruel if you're forced to wait around for it.

Oh, and a 3rd:

Why wouldn't it have been proper if he'd just agreed after you brought it up? Why must it come from him to be real?

Apols again for upsetting you op, did not realise I was being so strident.

I very strongly disagree that making a clear and public intention to get married a condition of agreeing to ttc is bludgeoning or forcing. If you guys are that committed to each other it is just a (v important IMO) formality.

perfumedlife · 30/10/2010 17:01

Totally agree with BEAUTIFUL, she put it better than i did, but was trying to say.

I would tell him i would not ttc if he was against the wedding. We married in a registry office, 55 guests and i still wore the whole get up. It was a fantastic day. Dh was married before and i wanted it smallish. Plus we only got engaged in February and married in June. So if you keep it short, you can have a lovely smallish wedding that wont make him nervous.

perfumedlife · 30/10/2010 17:02

Agree with spidookly again

RipMacWinkle · 30/10/2010 17:15

When you say you're worried about DP waiting till you get pg, are you actually worried that he's only interested in marrying you if/when you're having his baby? Because that's a whole other ball game to just getting married because you love each other and want to be together, with or without kids. No?

Sorry if I'm not being clear or misunderstood.

Other than that, I do sympathise on the getting married issue. DH and I (more DH!) were much the same but in the end, both really, really enjoyed our day. DH said he was shocked he did. He'd have sworn he'd hate every second.

BEAUTlFUL · 30/10/2010 17:16

"your dp has put you in a vulnerable position really where you are waiting for him to decide it's the right time to get married."

This is unfair to her DP, totally unfair. She moved in with him, she is TTC with him. In what way is that her DP's fault? These are things she has done, despite preferring to do other things (like get married).

"If he doesn't want to get married (as many people in this day and age) then he should say so and you can proceed in your relationship fully informed about the type of relationship it is."

Er, well it's been 3 years and he hasn't proposed. I think that shows that he's not looking to get married very soon, doesn't it? Let's look at men's actions and not their words.

fluffles · 30/10/2010 17:22

a lot of men want to do the proposal bit 'properly' because people WILL ask you what the proposal was like.

My DH worried about it for about a year and it was never quite perfect so eventually he just blurted out over dinner (after a bottle of wine) 'we should get married'. it was a fine proposal as far as i was concerned but he was worried about not doing the one-knee, ring, perfect situation thing. worried about what others would think, but when he realised i didn't mind he stopped caring.

it sounds from the OP like the OP's bf is worried about what others think (self-conscious about the wedding day for e.g).

spidookly · 30/10/2010 17:24

I wondered that too RipMac, but think on balance there is little to suggest such unpleasant motivations.

I disagree BEAUTI I think the OP has been put in a vulnerable position by her DP

fluffles · 30/10/2010 17:25

and yes, having just got married a few weeks ago (engaged a year ago) i have to say that both engagement and having a wedding do open your relationship up to a lot of scrutiny from outside and can be hard if you're a private person.. we have had all sorts of people as about our proposal (imo a private moment for us) and our family plans for the future and we had a HUGE fight to keep the registry office ceremony small - everyone wanted us to write our own vows and declare all our private hopes and fears in front of a hundred guests (we had ten guests and used the off the shelf vows).

RipMacWinkle · 30/10/2010 17:26

I do hope I'm way off beam spidookly

BEAUTlFUL · 30/10/2010 17:29

Lovely OP -

"you are right that this is a ridiculous and silly situation. Howevever there are two of us in it and it's not something I can change, or want to change, by bludgeoning him over the head with demands and ultimatums."

No. Obviously you don't want to bludgeon him, but you can quietly and calmly stic up for yourself. You do this with your actions. Your actions are saying "I am happy to live with you and try to get pregnant without being engaged or married". That's what you're doing, so your DP will assume you're OK with it. If you're notOK with it but are doing it anyway, your DP will assume you're a walkover and putting his happiness over your own because you're scared of losing him.

You actually know this inside, which is why you're getting upset.

"I would have though it was obvious from my posts that I don't feel particularly great about it, so perhaps you could engage some compassion, or at least some basic courtesy, before responding."

I feel so bad about my strident posts, it's all too easy to come bolshily onto these threads and spew out ballsy stuff without thinking how you must feel reading it.

So, in a nicer way, here's the plan: Bring up the convo again. I know you don't want to, but this time will be different because we're going about things in a different way. Say you still have mixed feelings and ask him when he will propose, "Is it within 3 months?" If he says yes, sit tight and wait for those 3 months. (Stop TTC.) (Definitely stop TTC.) After 1 month, remind him that there are 2 months left. Calmly. After 2 months, remind him there's 1 month left.

When 3 months have passed, sit him down and say it's been 3 months. If he hasn't proposed, say that you would still prefer to be married before kids, and he has shown that he doesn't, so you are going to move out because you want different things from the relationship. Then do it - move out. If he loves you, he will come round and collect you back home with a proposal. If he doesn't, you will still only be 36, and you will not be pregnant by a man who doesn't want to commit to you.

spidookly · 30/10/2010 17:32

Sorry beautiful, I left a letter out of your name, went back to fix it and somehow deleted the end of it.

BEAUTlFUL · 30/10/2010 17:34

"I disagree BEAUTI I think the OP has been put in a vulnerable position by her DP"

No! She has put herself in this position, firstly by dating him for 3 years without a proposal (men know within the first year whether or not you're The One), secondly by moving in with him (which gives them every benefit of marriage without the legal ones), and thirdly by TTC despite both of them knowing she'd rather be married first.

BEAUTlFUL · 30/10/2010 17:34

No worries, I quite like "Beauti" :)

AnyFuleKno · 30/10/2010 17:35

beautiful, I don't mean vulnerable in the sense you think perhaps. I mean that he has taken any control away from her by making a vague arrangement like this. Now she will be periodically wondering when will be the right time, what needs to change, do I need to do something different? perhaps when I'm pregnant, perhaps when the baby is born, perhaps when we recover financially from having the baby, he'll decide that now he wants to marry. She will be on the back foot and there will be an inequality in the partnership. Not fair.

I do know couples with children who aren't married but in those cases they are both anti-marriage.

I would be really reluctant to enter into shared parenthood with someone who knew that I wanted to get married but was reluctant to make that commitment for whatever reason

QuintessentialShadows · 30/10/2010 17:37

I feel for you op, as I would also doubt his commitment if he were not keen to be married to you, and I would be very hesitant to bring a child into a relationship with a man I did not feel sure was really committed to me.

My best friend got married recently. They put off ttc until after the wedding. She said to me "no way am I stopping birth control until after we are wed". Very sensible.

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