Dh still loves ow - any hope for us?

[Ineedabreak]

My dh recently admitted to having an affair with a colleague. We have been together 20 years & have 3 children under 8. He said he has been seeing her for 5 months and was friends with her before this. After a row he told me about her. We are still together and I don't want my marriage to end because I love him. I can see there were some problems in our relationship in that it had become a bit mundane and we had drifted a bit. Since I found out & we agreed to try again - 3 weeks ago - things have been good. Sex has been great & we have been much closer & talking. However he says he still loves her and that he feels something for her he has never felt before. He says he is not seeing her anymore so we can try & make a go of our marriage. He is a great dad to the kids. Is there any hope for us, will his feeling for her fade?

Three questions OP.

How are you going to monitor that they aren't sleeping together or having chats then? I sincerely hope you aren't going to rely on honesty from the man who has been lying to you for months, then lied to you again these past few weeks.

Secondly, what agreements have you reached with him now and do you still intend on having a full marriage, despite the second deceit?

Thirdly, what did you want in terms of advice when you posted the update yesterday?

He is having a laugh with you. Getting the great sex and love at home from a woman who adores him and will let him get away with murder.

Then he is getting the seedy sex on the side and the thrill and rubbing your nose in it and you are letting him.

Why would he change? Where you not taught as a child all actions have consequences? Why would he change his actions, he has no consequences he has the best of both worlds.

What I don't understand is this. Suppose we hear a story from a woman, who has had an affair and is still emotionally involved although she wants to make a go of her marriage. Yes we all tell to stop contact, to be honest (husband here might well be doing this), to give herself a little time. If it is a work thing she may get a little sympathy - after having been told what a pratt, an unfaithful one at that, she is. Someone might even refer to Glass and how she recommends dealing with a workplace affair.

But sometimes when she says she is confused and needs time to think it is accepted. She is encouraged to work out why she had the affair and what needs to be done if she wants to repair her marriage. She may need to grieve a little first.

OP knows her husband more than anyone (although I bet she feels like she knows him less well now ). If she wants to let some time go by, not to rush into any decisions, to wait and see how she feels and how he feels then why cant we support her? I think if she can do this while sharing her home with him then she is one very brave strong woman. I see it as a huge strength that she is even willing to try.

Who knows how long it will take his feelings for the OW to fade (two years is a time bandied around). Who knows if they will fade, and if they do whether Ineedabreak will be able to move on and stay with husband anyway? Like the rest of you I have no idea what the answers are, but Ineedabreak I think you are fab to try, I believe that if you still love him and want to raise your kids with him you are right to try. Some people make it work WWIFN normal and her husband did! I understand was a little quicker off the mark to see what a turkey he had been than your husband, but maybe yours will get there.

WWIFN a long time ago someone's husband write eloquently about his affair, was that you husband? Can you remember who it was? I wonder if Ineedabreak would like to read it. Aplogoies if I have muddled you with someone else

don'tdiss I think the principle difference in the scenario you describe is that the woman gets sympathy and acceptance when she talks about the pain of cutting out the OM.

No one is denying that ending an affair when you have been in love is incredibly painful as it must be to take back a partner who has had an affair but the point here is that Ineeds husband is not being honest. He says one thing but behaves in another way entirely, that is not a solid (or even any) ground for recovery.

No one can expect to be able to move on unless their partner is being honest and willing and so whilst if Ineeds husband said he was grieving and needed to see th OW for closure or acceptance or whatever that would be one thing, but to imply that he wants to move on, have sex with his wife whilst all the time he is seeing the OW without telling Ineed let alone being honest about his motives is quite another.

Thank you for your post dontdis : ) I know that fundamentally my dh is a good man but that he has done some bad things. I know he deeply regrets the hurt he has caused to all involved. I don't know why he did not tell me that he had seen ow at work - probably because he knew how I would react. I know he is very mixed up at the moment. But he did tell me in the end which he didn't have to. And yes I probably do know him better than anyone else as we have been together over 20 years so lots of history. I don't know what will happen but I think that what I am doing is right for me in my situation.

Good luck

Anyone who is advising the OP to move it is completely and utterly deluded - ridiculous advice. Why on earth should she move out of the marital home and disrupt herself and her children when they are already suffering?

When the dust has settled the OP will be in a better space to decide what is right for her.

That might mean a co-parenting situation, or separation or reconciliation or whatever. Why act now in the heat of the moment when you have not worked through all the difficult emotions?

My advice - do nothing at all, except change your sleeping arrangements and start building a life that works for you and your children. If your partner wants to come on board in a positive way that suits you - great. If not - well, he can shape up or ship out as they say.

In time, you will decide what direction is right for you, but now is probably not the time, in my humble opinion.

Good luck - I think you might be able to ride the storm.

Don'tdiss The point you make about how some Mumsnetters have double-standards when female infidelity is disclosed on these boards is spot-on IMO, because it still amazes me that unfaithful women are encouraged to keep secrets and continue lying; behaviours that are roundly scorned in unfaithful men, when their female partners post on here.

If you do a search of my posts, you will find I am pretty consistent, regardless of gender.

Of course a couple can recover from an affair; I am living proof of that - but my H had a very different type of affair to the one we are discussing here - and therefore entirely different reactions. Because there were no genuine feelings for the OW on his part, my H had no ambivalence at all and severed contact completely and instantly.

You are right, my H did once post here in an attempt to debunk some of the myths about infidelity. Comparing the two affairs, or the thoughts of the two Hs wouldn't be helpful though, because it is obvious that the OP's H has genuine feelings for the OW and is finding it hard to detach from her.

What never alters - and is consistent right across all the affair recovery books and even the Relate website - is that a couple cannot start to recover until safety is restored and the relationship with the affair partner is severed. I for one, would never recommend a female poster continued being in touch with her OM, if she was trying to repair her marriage.

Can I also go back to what the OP said in her earliest posts - that she felt that she mustn't question her H about the OW? No couple can recover from this, if the affair is somehow off-limits for discussion, because there will therefore be no learning and it is likely that the details of the affair will be worse in the OP's imagination - far worse than if a proper dialogue is achieved now.

A good definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This H has been in the habit of lying for a long time and has only just been caught out in more lies by omission. Which is why I asked the OP in my last post how she intended to monitor the deal-breakers she mentioned downthread - that her H was not pursuing a sexual or friendly relationship with the OW. She did not reply, but sadly I suspect that she will continue to hope he will be honest now, despite all the recent evidence of dishonesty.

I wish you good luck with this OP, but I have an awful feeling that you will take erroneous responsibility for this affair, won't press for details and will cross your fingers and hope you don't get any incontrovertible evidence that will cause you to carry out your threats. I also fear that if you lose sight of what you need in all this, you will slide into depression.

Basically, it is completely possible for affairs to be based on proper true feelings and go on to form viable relationships, famous e.gs - Harold Pinter and Antonia Fraser, Charles and Camilla etc.

So if he really is in love with her then that might be forever. We on here can't tell which it is.

You shouldn't leave the house, but you can't make him leave either, legally. People on here are always going 'chuck him out' but you actually CAN'T if he owns/rents the house as well. But you can stop taking any responsibility for him, change sleeping arrangements, start seeing a solicitor to prove there has been a sea-change

as a relatively frequent user of the term "chuck him out" it isn't meant to be taken totally literally

like taking him by the scruff of the neck and flinging him out the door

it means, start taking steps to detach yourself and get rid of him, in the way that is going to be different for every relationship

some men will leave, when asked

some men will not

but taking concrete steps that mean business, like quiz mentioned give a clear and definite message

"I am no longer willing to accept this, and I am taking steps to remove your malign influence from my life"

chuck him out is a metaphor for all that

I wanted to say that, because I think that some posters take things said too literally and have some daft notion that some woman somewhere is thinking "I should chuck him out now immediately because some stranger on t'internet told me so"

just sayin'

and OP...you need to "chuck him out", nothing will change while he continues to enjoy the best of both worlds

OP - I am sorry, but you need to GET ANGRY. How dare he treat you like this? Why are you keeping it to yourself, with your fingers in your ears, and hoping it will all go away, given time?

If he is to remain in the house, you are to separate - as in, he moves to his room, you have yours. (or he gets the sofa - because HE is in the wrong). And all his clothes go with him. Move the furniture around in your room - it is YOURS and he is not to go in without permission. Access is denied as he may have a STD, and is being mentally cruel.

If you believe a word he says about being away from her then you are deluding yourself. People in these situations DO NOT ACT LIKE THEMSELVES. He is NOT the man you married or have relied on for years, as his obsession will have changed him (albeit temporarily, maybe). My H said it was like being possessed - being a different person - and a person he hated (once he could look back clearly after).

Believe me, the lure of still keeping someone on who tells you how wonderful you are, compared to a wife who hates you for what you have done (and reminds you of your own growing self loathing as realisation of the damage you've caused kicks in), and sad, reproachful children is incredible. Why on earth would he want that to end? He needs to show you with his actions eg emailing work in front of you to tell HR he can't work near her if possible. Just don't trust what he says.

PS. You haven't told us about her - is she married, single? kids?

Agree with AF

Very rarely does anyone advocate changing the locks and dumping his belongings on the front lawn.

What posters usually suggest is that the cheated partner gets themself organised, stops doing the laundrey and certainly stops having sex with their partner.

Ineedabreak I sympathise a lot with your situation. I've been lurking on this thread and posted briefly with a link to my story a few days ago. I'm not sure if it has been mentioned already (I suspect it has) but you would really benefit from reading this book.

If you do decide ultimately that it is better to separate, please speak to Citizens Advice. As there are options out there to enable you both to live separately and you maybe eligible for a variety of benefits and help. It is well worth knowing where you stand legally and taking advantage of the first free session at a solicitors, they sound like big steps, but you do not need to commit to anything at all right now but knowing where you stand may bring you peace.

I took a stand with my H after excellent advice on my thread from WWIFN and others and I am glad that I did. I sent him a very long e-mail to outline what I required and thought I'd paste a snippet here for you:

"Your affair took a long time to heat up as it was a friendship that progressed over many years into a full fledged love affair. So I am no fool and realise that it will take time to cool down. I know you have been very ambivalent and that naturally you may have great difficulty cutting off all contact with her. You may also be reluctant to expose secrets and reveal continuing contact, however recovery of trust is greatly impaired by piecemeal staggered disclosure of basic information. You maybe putting off sharing everything with me as you think the truth will only make things worse. However the distress caused by sharing will be a short term reaction but the long term effect is that it will heal the wounds. I know you will not feel safe sharing in an atmosphere of nasty accusations and emotional storms and I will do my best to stay calm, but I actually need to hear how the affair began, how it ended, what was said, the lies you told etc. As if you keep giving me things piecemeal every time I think I have heard it all, I will be retraumatized with additional horror stories. Hearing the whole truth earlier in this process will help the recovery and give me more peace. I feel perhaps the reason you are not disclosing anything is a lingering loyalty to the OW and this is why you do not reveal details of the affair. I know letting go will take time, however for our marriage to have the best chance of surviving you do need to go cold turkey on contacting the OW as well.

I can no longer accept compromises and whatever crumbs you throw my way. Its not healthy for me or our children due to the underlying tensions and open conflict. You may prefer to put the topic of the affair in a locked box - but secrecy fuels obsession, obsessive thoughts about the OW maybe intensified by refusing to discuss the affair. Sharing information about the affair will allow us both to let go. Until I take steps to grapple with shattered assumptions and construct a story about the affair that make sense to me, I will be prone to obsessing until healing is complete. I am sure I will discover elaborate and premeditated and hurtful deceptions when the truth is uncovered, as long as you can validate the facts and empathise with the pain caused, I am hoping if we handle this together we will come out of it stronger."

I cannot emphasise enough that your H needs to be completely honest with you and fully transparent. He needs to stop all contact with her and change jobs for you both to have any chance of success at healing your marriage. I do not say this lightly. It sounds a little like you are still in shock and denial. Please listen to people like WWIFN. He cannot have his cake and eat it. You deserve more than that and so do the DCs.

After my H read my very long e-mail we had a heart to heart after he wriggled like a worm on a hook for a while and the truth was he never had ended the affair and had been lying to me. Whatever your H is doing in your situation you still need transparency and honesty from him and you need boundaries so that you can build up trust again in your marriage. I value marriage and I do not take it lightly but it is important that your children see you being treated with love and respect and are brought up in a healthy environment. They can pick up on underlying tensions. Mine certainly did and were far more at peace once my H moved in with his parents to give us space for a while. Seek outside help, look into marriage counseling, read that book, it is very good but do not settle for anything but honesty and transparency here and ensure he provides proof where necessary. Your marriage will never heal without these. I am not as articulate as WWIFN or others but I feel very passionately about this after everything I went through with my H. You deserve honesty and transparency and it will help you heal and move on. Generally the rule of thumb is to wait 3 months before making big decisions after the disclosure of an affair. Please also bear in mind that H's can do a lot of blaming of us in the early days for the affair, as they've spent so long justifying in their minds why it's ok to have an affair. Please do not accept responsibility for this affair in any shape or form. They can do a lot of re-writing of history, do not accept any blame here. Yes marriages go through bad patches and it takes two to make a marriage work but he could have sat you down at anytime and talked to you about any issues, not jump into bed with another woman. You didn't cause the affair.

Also please speak to your GP if you feel extremely low at this time. They can refer you for some counseling or prescribe anti depressants if needed. I didn't go on ADs until a whole year after separation as I didn't feel I needed them to begin with. But then I moved into this place of greyness, hopelessness, exhaustion etc and realised I needed to see my GP. Please speak to them if you start to find yourself descending into this sort of place.

I have two very young children so I may not be able to come on here much, or keep up with this thread very well, but you're getting some excellenmt advice from others, please pm me if you want. Sending you very unmumsnetty ((Hugs)) this is very very hard, but please take on board what people are saying x

teaandcake

That was a wonderful thing to share. Your email made me feel quite weepy! Your advice is excellent.

Point taken one and all.

Ineed, hope you are okish this morning. Have you been able to have any more discussion with your husband? He has created an almighty mess, has he come up with any ideas for how to clear it up? He has, after all, had months to consider it while you have had very little time at all.

What a truly marvellous post Teaandcakes. That was so generous of you to share your E mail. You are too self-deprecating, you know. You are an incredibly articulate woman, but what transcends all the beautifully constructed words, is your innate decency and kindness, to want to help someone in distress.

You would be someone incredibly special and precious to know, in RL, but I am so glad we get to see glimpses of you here, on Mumsnet.

Ineedabreak

I am sorry for your situtation.

We probably all have slightly different thresholds for calling time after being told a series of lies; whether to avoid further hurt or because there is doubt that trust could ever be rebuilt. It all gets a bit skewed when motivated by the wish that a marriage should not end (at any cost). But if things continue as they are, I'm sure you will get to a stage of thinking enough is enough.

Remember asking exP how long his affair had been going on when I found out about it one February - Christmas, he replied, not technically a lie, just an omission of the rather fundamental detail that it was Christmas 2 years ago. Took me about 6 months to have enough of this kind of economy with the truth, time I now regret, but I very much wanted to believe him.

Another accurate summary from WWIFN

< applauds teanandcake >

Awww please don't Most of my post was made up of the information I assimilated through that great book and then regurgitated out to my H in a desperate bid to save our marriage I'm really not as articulate as WWIFN and others on here. I am hoping to come to the Christmas meet up though btw If I manage to get a babysitter

Ineedabreak are you ok today?

Great post from Tea :)

Ineed -Im abit in the same place as you as I am looking longterm to rebuild marriage after H felt in love with OW.

I do think there is hope but it is very hard -and takes a lot of work from both sides. At present my H is trying but he has to do a lot more - and I will walk away if he doesnt do all I need. He needs to after a 1.5 year affair while I looked after baby and small children.

Also definitely coming to Xmas meetup -as H is babysitting. :)

Hoep you can get good support from this thread - look after yourself!

Mumfun...you mean DH will be in charge of his own children, don't you ?

Radical I know.........:)