Lonely

[arabella2]

Do I spend the rest of my life never kissing, cuddling or having any physical or emotional intimacy with dh??? The answer would be very clear - ie. no to leave instead, but we have three children who are 4, 6 and 8. I delude myself that it is fine and I can have friends who fulfil some of my emotional needs, but I have just been out for dinner with some friends and I actually feel worse about dh and I than before I went out. I am 41, he is 54. Somehow I feel too young for an elderly type of relationship where there is no physical contact and only a vague kind of companionship (during the week, at weekends he becomes very critical of me, one of the reasons why we have withdrawn so far from each other). I have just been out now to a restaurant and dh has asked me nothing about it, NOTHING. I end up living in a fantasy world where I have crushes on people who I imagine kind of return the feelings (yeah right) and one day everything will be alright, but in reality I feel like a dried up old prune. Anybody else in a relationship as sterile as this one - I wouldn't call it a relationship actually. Somehow I am terrified of talking about this to dh for fear of his reaction, so the status quo remains :(. We talk about the kids, a little about his work but that is kind of it - as if our life is restricted and has big brick walls around it over which we cannot go. Plus he is a very sanctimonious character who "tells me off" at the drop of a hat. We never ever say anything particularly nice to each other and so the whole sensual, romantic side of life is denied. I'm fed up with it yet I totally don't know what to do about it.
Am I being spoilt? After all we have three lovely kids, a nice house, dh works really hard to provide - our youngest has just started reception and I am this year doing a course to become a teaching assistant. I am blessed in lots of ways and of course our children need both of us all of the time. Yet I can't stop daydreaming of the person that I will one day be able to hug and kiss (haven't a clue who this will be) - just infantile daydreaming?

Hello
I have no answers but saw your posting and didn't want to leave it unanswered. I hope a bump will help and someone will come up with some comments relevant to your situation.

It sounds like there is a lot of backstory behind this ( I suspect there is more to this than is in the initial posting). Is there a reason for the lack of physical contact? Have you talked candidly with your DH/tried counselling? After all, 54 is not " over the hill". Does your DH eally understand how you feel? If not, it is your duty to let him know so he can act if he wants to salvage your relationship. Good luck.

Going to bed and just bumping for you again.

Just re-read my last post - and realised that "it is your duty" is a horrible phrase. Was just posting quickly late at night.

Take care.

I think that you might benefit from couple counselling. It appears that you two have lost your way a bit, but it may be completely fixable. You sound like you are in a rut, but you can get out of it and maybe with a bit of application and investment, you two may be able to get to a more satisfactory sexual and intimate stage.

BTW, I speak from 2nd hand experience. My parents are much older (I am late 30s) than you and are doing it in the livingroom enjoying intimacy as never before.[hhmm]

I am happy for them but is there a boak emoticon?

This is terrible - you must talk to DH and explain how you are feeling about the lack of intimacy in your relationship.

If I can offer a word of advice - we blokes are simple and rarely self-aware so keep it simple and explain what you actually want him to DO - make it clear and if he loves you he will try and fit in.

You are barely older than me - and I am in the first flush of youth so you simply can't settle for the status quo. Apart from anything else nature abhors a vacuum and someone else will fill the gap in your life if DH doesn't - with unpredictable consequences.... Try and sort it out before this happens if you can.

Best of luck!

Thanks everybody for your messages. I don't think "it is your duty" is a horrible phrase MardyBra - I know in a way that it is but I just can't bring myself to do it as I know he will come back with a load of stuff that he considers not to be right about the way I do things - he is also quite aggressive in the way he expresses himself if he feels he is being attacked and I kind of haven't got the strength to go there if you see what I mean.

The thing about my dh is that I don't think he cares about the way things are between us - his main focus is always the kids - it's as if both of us are married to them and not to each other - so for their sake we live together. I don't know if I even want to regain intimacy - even when things were a little closer he has never been one for hugging and kissing (yet he does this loads with the kids) and I have to say that after 15 years together (though he was much more tactile at first) I really resent this. He is quite a controlling negative character at his worst and in a way I would actually LIKE to meet someone else so would not be that bothered if someone did walk into the "vacuum" Electribe (lol at first flush of youth :o).

Thing is the whole world thinks you are happily married while the reality is that you daydream about other people (had/have long crush on a teacher at dcs school - totally cloud cuckoo land but somehow can't get him out of my head - he is happily married and anyway even if not sure he wouldn't go for me) while getting slowly older and more pissed off!

If I get enough courage I will talk to dh and keep it simple electribe.

Thanks all three of you again.

Please please don't let things stand like this. I am only a couple of years younger than you - you should not settle for a " sanctimonious character who "tells me off" at the drop of a hat"

Just on this "telling off" point. My DH has issues with being in control and being the "boss" in our relationship. I am a strong character myself, and at first laughed it off. When it got to me we went to counselling. DH's need to control apparently stems from his chaotic childhood and we have been given help and techniques for dealing with this.

So... why can't you talk about things? What would happen if you tried?

notbloodybranston I am impressed that you and your dh have been to counselling and are both humble enough to want to use techniques to help your relationship
I think the problem with us is that when dh behaves in a domineering way I really hate him (which is most weekends) and so retreat into myself
were I to "fight back" he would have a tonne of things to say about how crap I am (mainly to do with "mess in house" I think this is a red herring myself) - I don't have the strength to listen to all of this
I think dh may also have had a chaotic childhood to a certain extent with a dad who became an alcoholic, had a temper and left (or rather was kicked out of the house) when dh was 15 - however I really don't care in a way at this point and would rather live with someone who openly liked me and told me so

and he STILL hasn't asked me how my evening out last night went :(

don't settle for this

you are wide-open and vulnerable to an affair (don't deny it)

if some man comes along and starts to show you the care, concern and intimacy you are craving, you will have your head turned

then your family life will be blown to smithereens

tell him that you are this unhappy, as no-one should have to live like this "for the sake of the kids"

things is maybe I am vulnerable to an affair but have no idea how they happen as only people I know are other mums - seriously!
maybe something concrete (not an actual affair but a feeling like it might happen) happening like that would be a catalyst for dh and me to actually talk
yesterday he was joking around about Sheryl Cole and how if she was divorced (is she) he could go off with her (all good natured) - I equally good natured said that we would have to get divorced first and could we? he joked back - yes.... I was on my way to get kids from school and he carried on joking was I going to get the divorce - I said no - going to get kids - he laughed and then said THEY are not getting divorced..... I think if I were to broach subject of being unhappy he would simply see it as all my problem and if we were ever to separate he would see it as me separating the family - not ever think his own behaviour might have lead to some of it
I will have to tell dh about being unhappy but I feel kind of spoilt doing so like what the hell am I compaining about and I feel this is the attitude he would take

it doesn't matter "what attitude he will take"

your unhappiness is real to you, and he is the root of it...he does not have the right to tell you how you should feel

it sounds like you spend rather a lot of time modifying your own behaviour and thought processes, because he wouldn't approve

he is a controlling man...are you happy to be controlled ? I can see that you are definitely not, so you have to start taking some control back and understand that you are entitled to feel and react in whatever hell way you like

You are right SF - I spend most weekends on edge wondering what he is going to tell me off about next - thing is I don't think he can change his basic tendency to blame and criticise and so I must subconsciously think there is little point in talking to him and would rather in a way not be with him point blank. However both of us stand to lose so much if we were to separate it's just awful to contemplate. I appreciate how much he loves the kids and the nice things he does with them and I have contributed to some parts of the relationship being rubbish. However at this point in my life I feel I know myself well enough to know I would rather be on my own or with somebody far more laid back, loving and demonstrative.

Or at least loving and demonstrative towards me.

that sounds very sad, arabella

yes, it is awful to contemplate splitting a family up

but for you to have to deny your unhappiness, smother your feelings and constantly walk round on eggshells to keep him sweet is utterly shit

you matter

While I agree with everything SF says - perhaps you should still try talking first. Basically, for your own peice of mind in years to come and for the time when you have to expalin all this to your children, you must be sure that you have taken all reasonable steps to save the relationship before shipping out.

Trust me it will eat you if you don't.

(doubt this helps but I'm trying!)

electribe, I didn't say she shouldn't try talking to her DH

but I think she needs to "talk" to him in much stronger terms

and mean it

why do people automatically assume you are advising people to finish their relationship when you tell them they don't have to tolerate such treatment?

maybe that will have to happen, maybe not, but this kind of relationship seems intolerable to me, under it's current terms (ie all on his terms)

Now that I agree with!

(You are quite Scary though.....)

FWIW - you speak of not be ready for an "elderly" relationship. I am 42 and DH is 53 and there is nothing elderly about our relationship. Fair enough we are not at it like rabbits - too tired mostly - but there is plenty of initmacy and affection going on - and when we go on holiday and have a bit more spare time.....well

What you have going on in not normal, and with the critcism going on too - well I for one could not live like this in the long term, kids or no kids. It sounds like he has turned into your dad or something!

I 2nd or 3rd the advice to get counselling. Could you also "make" time for you as a couple to try to re-engage? He needs to understand that this situation is making you very unhappy and MUST change. Miserable parents do not the best parents make....

Going through the exact same almost, OP, a totally sexless relationship- no intimacy, not a lot of conversation and tbh a lot of anger- from me, which is destructive to everything. Understand exactly what you mean about the loneliness. We also have a similar age gap. Beautiful, wonderful dcs. Both work, big mortgage, tired all the time, lots of control issues (from both of us) and the only difference is that we have been to Relate - it was OK, it moved us on a little way and we were able to conceive dc2 but since then- flatlined again and can't afford to go back, let alone having the time.
Now I am about as vulnerable to an affair as it is possible to be, and on the brink of one.
And I know that people will judge but I don't think anyone who has not been in this kind of situation will know the misery it brings. Not awful misery, not something you can't live with, but a mundane kind of sadness that colours everything very grey. Never mind intimacy, sex itself is important, it matters, living without it is difficult.
So I feel for you, OP and I agree, the answer is to lay it on the line and seek help.

You poor thing. You will never ever me as lonely as you are right now. ANd the fact that you feel so desperate now will give you the courage to do something.

You fear change I guess, which is normal. But there's nothing worth preserving. So it just fear of change, the 'hassle' of adjustment, the shame of telling people etc....

If somebody could press fast forward for you and tell you that you were now in your new life, single, content, inviting friends around, free to try new things, free to flirt, day dream, plan....... would you think oh yes please?

Don't be talking about counselling please. What an utter waste of time. counselling for YOU alone perhaps, but there's nothing wrong with you. Not having sex seems more important when there's a particular person you're not having it with. WHen you are single and not having sex it won't be so lonely, such a rejection, such a strange shameful secret to keep etc... If you can be honest and single you will feel more open and less lonely.

GL

arabella2- very sorry to hear. Will respond more later

PortoFango - I know our ages should not mean that we have an "elderly" relationship, but in fact it feels like the relationship of much much older people - and I'm sorry if I'm offending any older people who I am sure still have physically affectionate relationships. The other week on the tube I saw a couple maybe in their seventies who were touching each other, looking at each other fondly and who looked just so happy to be together.

Yes I must have a plan for talking to dh but somehow I have to do it from a confident position which I don't feel I'm in at the moment. It's right Scary what you say about meaning it, but this also means that if he turns round and says he doesn't want to play ball or compromise in changing things together, then I have to take the next step which might eventually mean separation.

I think my "relationship" with dh has affected my self-esteem in that I feel kind of powerless. But the reality of splitting would mean unbelievable upheaval for everybody and outcomes which I might have no way of controlling. Having had three children together of course I have to sort things out. If I'm honest also, I like the relative comfort we live in

That stopped me from leaving my x for a couple of years. But if it's any help to you, I have never had any regrets. But then, although we lived in a nice house, I had very little cash. I get to make more decisions now. I just feel more in control, less criticised. I felt lonely in that relationship though. I will never experience loneliness like that again. I know what you mean about the day dreaming. I used to do that. I do it less now because I suppose I feel less trapped. Anything could happen now. Might not, but it could. Anyway, all those feelings of loneliness aren't so heightened after you leave. Just being on your own is not the same as loneliness. When there is somebody right next to you and you don't connect it feels like some sort of torture.

sorry missed your messages 34go, ValiumSkeleton and TDaDa. I totally agree about the mundane sadness... Felt totally happy the other day cos saw object of crush... put me in an optimistic mood until I realised that that's just what he is... the object of a crush.
ValiumSkeleton - the thing about sex is that we were having it about every 4 to 6 weeks and oddly when we do it is very good, but I have stopped wanting to do even that because it's not as if affection in day to day life increases after we have "done it". What happens is that for two or three days he doesn't get at me about anything and things feel "right", but then I realise he still never touches me or says anything particularly nice or kisses me or wants to kiss me etc... and we go back to square one. I feel I have entered a phase where I don't even want to initiate the once every 6 weeks sex we used to have (often don't sleep in the same bed). Also, only very occasionally when we are just sleeping in the same bed will he put an arm around me so then I lie there feeling crosser and crosser. Anyway, where is the law that says we have to stay with the same person forever. He could be my "friend" forever or somebody that I know, but my most intimate partner???? Doesn't feel like it.
Sometimes I think of what might happen if one of us were really ill and I truly don't think I would want him to be the person that I had to rely on and deal with all of that with (if I were the one who was ill).
I agree ValiumSkeleton that not having sex when you are single matters a lot less than not having it (as well as simple affection!!) when you are "with someone".

I wish you all the best 34go. I'm glad you are happier now ValiumSkeleton - can I ask if you have children? I agree with whoever said living with my dh is like living with my father - it does often feel like that. Then when he is in a good mood I feel very disloyal for thinking this way and as if I'm being childish and selfish. Yes the thought of being free to flirt and daydream is appealing but maybe a lot of people in relationships feel this way? I think what appeals the most is the feeling of not being so anxious...