DDesperately sad - my 5 yr old wishes he was dead

[TrulyOutrageous]

I would usually post in Behaviour or SN, but would like as many responses as possible, as I am truly at a loss as to what to do now

My 5 yr old DS told me last night that he 'doesn't want to be in the world anymore' would 'prefer dying to another episode of living', 'wishes he was dead' and feels that he is 'naughty', 'a bad person', 'dirty' and 'hates his skin' (he is mixed race).

This has come after a weekend of being a bit down and grouchy, and a day off school (he had a very bad tongue ulcer, which the doctor thought might be a symptom of anxiety), but I absolutely do not know what prompted such an extreme reaction from him - it was a normal day, really, until he came out with this at bedtime when I was tucking him in.

I am devastated and worried sick about my poor boy.

A bit of background:

He was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome earlier this year. It was the culmination of a a couple of years of him just not getting on well at nursery, and then totally not coping with reception. His behaviour towards the end of summer term became so extreme (violent outbursts, inability to join in with any group stuff) that he was being frequently excluded and we were worried sick about him.

I managed - with a lot of effort (as any parent of a child with SN will understand) - to secure a pretty comprehensive, well quantified/specified statement of SEN for him, and secured him a place in a specialist provision for kids with social communication issues in a lovely mainstream primary school in our borough.

So far, so good. He has taken to his new school quite well (happy to go in the morning; engaging much better than he was in last school, although does miss old school and 'friends' very much; seems more relaxed when he comes home in the afternoon). The staff are also lovely and have a much better understanding of his issues.

At home, he has jealousy issues with his younger sister and can be quite a stroppy, willful child, but on the whole we are a very close and happy family. Me and DH are a solid couple, and he has a good male role model in his father - hard working, loving, devoted. I am a full time student, but duck and dive in order to be around for the kids. DH is self employed and works flexibly, so also puts in time doing nice stuff with the kids. My mum and sister live locally, and and spend lots of time with DS and are very devoted to him.

Also, we live in a multi-cultural environment, with lots of friends and neighbours of different backgrounds, although it is true that DS does see a lot more of his white relatives because they live closer. We have tried to instill a sense of pride in him about being mixed race, brought nice books and talked about it whenever it comes up, as honestly and positively as we can (DH black, me white by the way).

I know that my boy is an anxious, highly strung child, also very bright and thinks things over a lot, but I had no idea this is how my beautiful, lovely and much loved boy was feeling inside, and it has knocked both me and DH for six.

We tried to reassure him that he is beautiful, that he is loved and there are so many wonderful, positive things about him (managed to cheer him up a little bit by listing all the things I love about him, and all the people who love him), but it was getting late and he needed to be getting to sleep, so have left it there.

I am gutted. When he was talking he sounded like a child who is being abuse or neglected, or has suffered some sort of awful life, not the lovingly brought up, much loved little boy we know.

Please, please help. What should I do?

I feel so sorry for you. This isn't you,or anything you have or haven't done to make your child feel this way. I would phone a professional whom you trust, and knows your child, and ask for advice.

They may be able to refer your dc for specialist child counselling, or provide more immediate practical advice or even medication. You could take him to your GP, but will need to ask to be referred on as I expect this is outside the scope of most GP's.

Use the SN board too, you will get loads of support there. Wishing you all the very best.

you need to get professional help thru CAMHS child and adolescent mental health - such as play therpay, child oriented counselling etc.

they can tease out what he really understand about death etc.

it isnt what you have done or havent done - tehre are lots of things at play. but going to CAMHS and getting one on one counselling/play therapy for him plus some family sessions might help find strategies and responses

Oh poor you and DH, and poor him . I'm afraid I don't have any experience in this area. Could you take him to a doctor and ask for a referall to a child psychologist or to a counsellor who specialises in working with children?

Oh, this makes me so sad to read. I have no experience, and don't want to ring alarm bells but the poor little mite saying he felt naughty, dirty and hating his skin, worries me that he has been abused. Have you considered this? I am sorry, I really hate even writing that, but it was the first thing that came to my mind when I read his words.
Best of luck to all of you.

I second getting a referral to CAMHS - Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services - GP will refer. Try and go and talk to the GP without your son there - you may get emotional.

I know how awful it feels to have a child say such terrible things about themselves. Please don't blame yourself. You sound like a wonderful caring mum, and there is help out there.

You are justified in asking for a GP appt today - you will feel a little better once you have taken action/ Please also don't feel bad about seeking help - many many children and families are getting this help

CAMHS are excellent with this sort of thing. I know a young girl who said very similar things to her mum. She was 6 at the time and had no SN diagnosis. It was actually depression. Her mum was horrified as they are excellent parents. But she was told this was exceptionally rare in a child but was possibly brought on by the fact that she was exceptionally gifted academically and was 'thinking' things too much.

Anyway, GP made referal to CAMHS and they were fantastic with her. Lots of play stuff and the sessions seemed to loosen her up a bit if that makes sense. She definitely became far less anxious and more child-like.

Although your DS has AS, perhaps anxiety is the key problem here too. If so, CAMHS should be able to help.

And please don't feel this is your fault. The mum of the girl I know was devastated but it was just a symptom of the child's complex personality rather than anything to do with nurture.

Having said all that, the comments about his skin colour seem strange as young children are pretty blind to skin colour being any different to hair colour or eye colour.

So sorry, your poor wee soldier. I have no experience of this, and you sound like wonderful parents, please don't blame yourself.

It does sound like depression. I hope you get some good help.

Hi TrulyOutrageous - I'm really sorry, I haven't read the other posts but I just wanted to reply quickly before my munchkins wake up.

Bit of background on me: My DS has suspected ASD, he's still under investigation with a Neurodisability Specialist and has no diagnosis yet as he's still young. Also my nephew (sister's son) whom I'm very close to, has Asperger's and is a similar age to your little boy.

I think it's quite common for children of this age with ASD to be obsessed with things like death. My nephew certainly is. That is absolutely not meant to devalue your problem at all, it must be totally heartbreaking but I just wanted you to know your not completely alone.

I also think from my own experiences in childhood that a lot of things can come out at bedtime. I remeber (also aged 5) suddenly being beside myself just after being put to bed. The reason was because I didn't want to die. I don't know why it entered my head, I hadn't had a bad day or an incident, it just suddenly occurred to me that one day I was going to die. My mum came in and comforted me, told me I'd be happy because I'd be with baby Jesus and even though we're not religious I found that comforting and went to sleep happy.

Now this is just me thinking out loud and knowing what my DS and Nephew are like...
My nephew in particular has no fear whatsoever. It's part of his condition. He also has a tendency to see things in a very matter of fact way. I'm guessing age 5 is roughly when we all become aware of our own mortality. I wonder if your DS's declaration that he wants to die was just his way of expressing the fact that it doesn't scare him. It's possible that he's suddenly become aware of death (as I did at that age) but instead of being scared of it like most NT children perhaps he's just being very matter of fact about it and even curious to the extent that he'd like to "try it out".

I hope that may be of some help, I can't imagine how utterly heartbreaking this must be for you...

xx

Hiya, just read the other posts now, I second the idea of speaking to CAHMS, definitely.

How did he seem when he was telling you all this? Was he upset or quite emotionless?

Also, with regard to his skin colour, in what context did that come up? Is it possible that he was saying it in a very factual way and not actually linking it to race ie. I don't like the colour brown I wish I was white/purple/red etc.

I also second the comments about you sounding like a fantastic mum. He sounds like he has a great support network around him and a very loving family. xx

Thank you all for your responses. It's such a relief just getting it out there, as I have been worrying myself sick all day, and DH went off to work this morning veryheavy-hearted, too.

He has seen CAMHS in the past (psychotherapist) when all the violent, angry outbursts at school-stuff was going on, and as part of the diagnosis procedure. They were really helpful and he is on the waiting list for more sessions. I think I will chase this up.

Abuse alarm bells rang in my head when he used words like 'dirty', too, I'm afraid, but I cannot think how this could have happened or by whom. It has set my mind off down that track, though, which is making me feel paranoid and suspicious of everyone in our family, even .

The only way I can rationalise it is that he linked being 'dirty' to his skin colour, and said he wished he was white like me. Very hard to hear that, too, though (although obviously less awful than fearing he might be being abused) .

Really good point about things coming out at bedtime. He often talks about his day or his feelings to me at bedtime, which I suppose is a good sign. It's as if it all comes tumbling out.

I do fear that he is somehow depressed. He had a terrible year at school last year - was externally excluded 10 times and internally excluded almost every day. He would try to escape from school regularly - climbing up 12 feet walls and attacking teachers to get away from them. In my heart of hearts, i think he is quite traumatised by it all and this is where the 'I'm naughty' stuff comes from. He was told he was naughty and treated as a 'problem child' for a long time by last school.

His new teacher (who is fabulous) did say she thought he suffered from very low self-esteem, which is true, I think. he is exceptionally bright (I hate all the G&T stuff - but his reading age is of a Year 6 or 7 child and he is a maths whizz), but a perfectionist, and beats himself up if he doesn't get everything right, win every game, do everything perfectly.

He just seems so very down on himself at the moment.

OK, thinking out loud - I think I will ring CAMHS in the morning and chase up this appointment. Do you think I should talk to his new teacher? I am worried they might think he is being abused, too - but do you think they should know just how bad he is feeling in order to be able to help him properly?

Thoughts?

many, many thanks, btw! I have used the SN boards before, but not for a while (since the whole statementing palaver!) and have found MN an absolute Godsend.

Also, just as a thought - but how would I go about probing the 'abuse' thing without totally upsetting the apple cart? I mean, how do you deal with that sort of thing?

I did ask him last night if someone had done something or said something to upset him, where had he heard these things from etc ('nowhere, it's just what I think' was his reply) and I asked him if he knew that he could tell me anything, that he didn't need to keep any secrets from me etc and he said 'I know that mummy'.

So, how would I go about probing that further without freaking him out or accusing innocent people of abusing him?!

Vixen - he said it all looking very sad, with a really pale, worried, anxious face - like it was a huge urden on him.

He said he wished he was white like me, not 'mixed' like he was. or if he couldn't be white, he'd be brown like daddy, but not mixed.

Thanks for your reply. Feel better just having an outlet and getting some support. And thanks for saying I sound like a good mum. It's hard at times like this not to beat yourself up. I do feel I have let him down in some way

burden

Truly, knowing the literal side of AS, then the dirty could simply be that he is reasoning that skin gets darker the dirtier it gets. I know that sounds stupid but to a child with AS, maybe that's his thought process.

This is going to sound mad but I just thought- Could you get some milk and some drinking choc. Show how the milk is white and the choc is dark but when mixed they make a pale brown type of colour-which tastes better than either of the others two on their own!

I know that sounds kind of naff but the visual aspect may help him understand why he's not as white as you and not as dark as Daddy but the most scrumptious mixture of both of you.

Gosh, you poor woman, your poor DS. I have no specific experience, or advice.

I've heard that some mixed race DC don't feel part of either culture, and as DS is half english it's on my radar, but I don't think this will be an issue.

I do know that DS sometimes does say the odd thing to see what the effect of it would be. But perhaps this is not the case with your DS.

The isolation and being unsure of himself seems like it could be more linked to his being very bright and his perfectionism.

Can you try and explain to him that perfection takes time and patience to get to, but that even trying is brilliant and practice makes perfect? I think it could be he's frustrated at the level he is physically at, when mentally he is a little ahead, and is using his own visual differences to his peers as a focus.

Huge hugs for you, and even bigger ones for him, he sounds lovely. He'll get there in the end. You are NOT letting him down, you are clearly a great, caring and loving mummy.

What a sad experience for you all.

I think sometimes children this age get so overwhelmed with emotions that they don't understand, they are so strong but they don't have the words to express how they feel, so it can come out sounding very extreme to a rational adult.

My son once said he wished he were dead and it was truly awful. I cried so much that evening - it was just as he was getting into bed and he couldn't tell me what was upsetting him just said he would rather be dead. We had no idea wwhat was upsetting him other than he was having a difficult time with a tough little friend from school. But the next day he seemed fine and once we spoke to his teacher about this friendship problem, it all settled down.

One of my nieces is mixed race with a white mum and a black dad and when she was 5ish her mum found her crying in the bath trying to scrub her skin 'to make it white'. That was very hard for them, but she is now a fantastic teenager with a very high self esteem. I hope your son is happier today.

Your poor DS :(

To me as a teacher, I don't hear abuse, I hear the kind of awful self-loathing that comes from being a gifted, bright, curious child who is told constantly at school that everything he does, everything he wants, everything he says, is wrong. The first year at school is crucial to a child's sense of self and I'm for you that his previous school destroyed his self-confidence.

It's possible that older students made negative comments about his skin colour at school, and that's where those comments come from?

The good news is that his self-esteem can and will be repaired. He has loving parents and it sounds like he is recovering from trauma and on the way up.

Keep being the amazing mum you are and he will be fine, I'm sure of it.

How awful for you all. I would definately chase up the CAHMS appointment. I would then talk to his current school and explain that his self confidence needs rebuilding and that you are worried about his mental health. You say that his new teacher is fab and will be specifically trained to deal with troubled kids, she may be your best bet immediately.

It sounds that you have good communication with him, keep talking. Encourage his abilities and shower him with love. I am sure you are doing this already.

You sound like a good, loving family. Support each other. Good luck.

Thank you so much for the further replies.

I was driving myself a bit mad earlier on, and it is so so helpful to get some perspective on this from other parents (and teachers!).

Could cry with gratitude, to be honest. Thank you!

Will be back a bit later x

I feel for you & your boy too, & I think most good advice gas already been given above, I might of missed it though, but is it possible that there may of been some racist type jibes/language going around at school??

I ask because it was at a similar age that this was happening at DDs school & "dirty" is the sort of thing said, 1 of DDs friends was quite upset as she was getting the blunt end of up, might of been funny if not so sad, as it was actually a mix raced child who was the main name caller, but just not understanding it properly

dirty skin, & poo skin being the most common terms they were using at this age, sadly mostly coming from 1 boy, who sadly for him had a very troubled background & no respect for school rules, the School are very intolerant of anything like that & thankfully were quick to act, but even that didn't stop it, & then it was pick on the "gay"

obviously with AS to content with too anything like this will be taken far more literally :(

I would also recommend asking in School if theres been any other racist language problems, teachers or parents of other none white kids
, also does the School not have a counselling service you can access quicker than CAHMS???

DD had other problems at her School & the School counselor was great at getting to the route of her fear with play & re-building her confidence

good luck, having heard my own DD say similar at not much older I know how harrowing it can be, in her case it turned out to be quite a complex bullying issue

good luck getting help