Am I being silly to end my relationship because of this?

[goingcrazybones]

I've already ventured as far as suggesting I am calling time on our relationship but talks didn't continue yesterday as DP probably felt it best to let me cool down. I will have to discuss the issue sooner rather than later today and have no idea whatto say or do.

The thing that prompted my 'decision' was this.

About 3 weeks ago DP went away on a mini break with friends. All fine but we haven't spent a lot on us since the start of the Summer - one night out in London - and so we said we'd go out for a nice meal on his return and also that we'd plan a weekend away without any children before mid-November.

The weeks are rolling by and still we've not socialised together any evenings and we both agree (so I thought) this is a priority.

We've agreed to go out this Friday and are almost there with booking our weekend away, just last childcare bits to sort out.

We don't live together and during the day yesterday we arranged for me to stay at his last night. As soon as this was agreed DP said that he'd then go out with friends on Friday instead of me. I started out by saying something along the lines of "er, hello??? I'm not swapping our Friday night out just because I'm staying at yours tonight". This escalated to a discussion about the agreement to go out for dinner once he was back and that that hasn't happened and that he has regular mid-week 'me time' so it is hardly that he is lacking in that respect. He responded by saying he hasn't had a big night out with 'the lads' for a while (a few weeks) and that he assumed that as our weekend away is going to be very soon that I wouldn't be too bothered about this Friday.

He doesn't go out on benders with his male friends a lot and he has a lot of work commitments and has a great sense of entitlement to 'down time' alone. I have accepted this as part of him so I am not complaining about this though in an ideal world I'd expect more sacrifice from a partner. I am a divorcee and have had a very long term relationship end in the past so am beyond the notion of perfection.

We had a short but big row (me fuming and yelling how insensitive and selfish he was being, him saying he didn't want to listen to me) but he responded later by saying via text "you win, we'll go out Friday" I haven't replied to this yet. In fact, the last thing I'd said was that he was a rubbish boyfriend and that I'd had enough.

We had had a lovely weekend with stepchildren with us and so on but still I feel that his attitude stinks.

I know the score in our relationship in that he doesn't see the relationship as fundamental to his life (that's any relationship) and I chose not so long ago after some counselling to accept that. We have our friendship. He is selfish and that character trait pervades through his work and life in general not just with us and I have recognised that elements of that fact are part of what makes me happy in a relationship. I would certainly be unhappy in a relationship where I called the shots (my marriage was like this and a failure) so I have to live with the downsides of what attracts me to my partner. He loves me, I love him (but right at this moment cannot say that with conviction) but we both struggle with reconciling our past to the detriment of our relationship now.

I just don't know whether I do still want to tolerate the inadequacies even though the end of our relationship would be a great loss. I'm quite sick of being bottom of the pile after his work, the children, step children, his ex wife and now, it seems, his friends.

Is it good enough for him to say "you win?" or should the fact that he was keen to shelve our couple time be an alarm bell and a signal that time with me isn't as good as time with himself/his male friends?

We have a great time when together - something he acknowledges outwardly more than I do.

I think it's simpler than that. OP wants more commitment (and the intrinsic respect that comes with that), her P has made it patently clear that that will never be on offer.

Understandably OP isn't willing to (nor should she any longer) compromise what she wants from a relationship in order to settle, and he isn't remotely willing to meet her even at least halfway.

No point continuing.

Hold on -- do your DC live with you all the time? I mean the DC you have with this man. Are you their full-time carer or do they ever live with him?

NO WONDER he doesn't want this relationship to end! You are doing everything for him, every.single.thing - and what are you getting out of it?

Yes, they all live with me and the others with his ex wife except at weekends. Everyone is going to be so gutted as their happy lives stop now. It's only me that's unhappy. It seems so selfish but he doesn't give me what I need, just bits of it.

We went shopping at the weekend for beds for my chidren (from my marriage) at his. They have always had put you up beds until now as they only sleep their occasionally - in the week he comes here. He will try and tell me that 'as soon as things get more committed I put a spanner in the works'. Is that true I wonder? But then I think that if my children are only now being bought beds for his house then his commitment issues are massive.

I do feel that in time he would probably lose a lot of his anxiety about the future but I am not enjoying waiting.

I don't mean I am biding my time hoping for a complete re-think by him and a ring on my finger; we do share some of the same views on relationships/marriage and cohabiting. It's the time invested (or lack of) into our family by him, and more particularly lack of time invested in me that is the problem.

I've just looked up the possibility of Relate telephone counselling but am not sure what the wait is. I feel I need to make a decision very quickly or this feeling of extreme discontent will be replaced with apathy again until the next deal breaking argument and these days are the days of my life. Obviously though I don't want to be rash.

Echo Beautiful. What would concern me (sorry, don't want to upset you) that the example your kids (both joint and step, but more particularly joint because you two are the only parents they have) have of parenting is that the dad does what he wants, when he wants, while mum assumes the day to day responsibility for childcare and has to cajole him into spending time with her - and them. You say his kids are really important to him but just how much time does he ever spend with them when you're not around ?

Okay - fair enough you say that you're neither here nor there about cohabitation - and I can see the advantages of being the only adult in the household, even if you do do all the childcare ..... but the fact you are taking on such a lot which most dads who are apparently still together with their partner would normally share but yet you still have to bargain with him for what should be nice normal enjoyable time together makes me think you're flogging a dead (very selfish, as you know) horse.

I'd suggest you would probably feel far happier and have far more peace of mind if you ended the semblance of a relationship you have with him. Nothing much would change in your day to day life would it, but you would not have to suffer the indignity of pleading for his attention and feeling at the bottom of the heap compared to all else in his life. It's a cliche but it's far better to feel a bit lonely (hopefully not for long) when you aren't in a relationship than to feel lonely within one. Right now, you're effectively waiting about at his convenience while he has no such restriction .... give yourself a break - and the opportunity (when you're ready) to meet someone who'll treat you with respect.

Oh hell. I've just got the "have you cooled down yet" message. I want to be in Barbados on a beach without a care.

So when does he do any parenting of your joint children?
Of all the people possibly being selfish in this situation, you are not on the list!

Blu, he is at work nearly all the time. Monday to Friday he pops into the pub near work when he finishes anytime between 6pm and 10pm and then goes home. He sees me every day but we spend a whole evening together between one and 3 times a week mid-week. Rarely more. We nearly always spend 1-2 nights together at the weekend and often one 'day' at the weekend he will spend just with his children from marriage. We parent together at all these times and he will care for all of my children if I have an appointment, generally but work does often prevent this. It could be a doctor's appointment or a hair appointment, he is willing whatever.

A lot of the time he has his children over or if I take mine and ours down to stay with him, he will keep popping back into work or be preoccupied with paperwork at home. He is pretty avoidant of the true responsibility. His children are older and complain about this a lot.

I do all the cooking and cleaning and all that sort of thing but he will sort things out at my house such as my garden, DIY, taking stuff to the tip.

We had to look round schools for my eldest child recently (secondary transfer) and he came along but I had to persuade him and he wouldn't have offered.

He is massively holding back in this relationship and though I strongly suspect this is because of having been through two failed marriages, this cannot be an excuse forever.

I suppose I need to decide whether this is an indication of forever or whether it is temporary and understandable to a point.

I do not relish handing over parental responsibility as I am opinionated and dislike criticism or relinquishing control. However, I do not feel I have balanced these aspects of my personality well with someone who allows me to do so. Instead I have gone for someone who is happy being a passenger in the relationship - happy to jump off the ride at any point (or at least that is what it is beginning to feel like).

So, a lot of this is my fault but I do feel there is potential to correct this because I am AWARE. He is in complete denial.

he hasn't held back very well, has he? Considering he was quite happy for you to get pregnant.

He sounds like a complete shit, I'm appalled!

I completely agree with every word of catsother's post. You will feel soooooooooooo much better when you stand up to this twunt and dump him. Let him beg for a second of your time.

Get a great solicitor and sort out a watertight agreement regarding childcare splits, etc. Your life can only improve, honestly, and I'm usually always in the "don't split up" camp.

You know you're being a doormat now. I bet you've been depressed for years. I bet you've neglected your health and appearance and hobbies and social life. I bet you've felt flat and "What's the point?" for ages, and like your life has taken a horrible wrong turn down into a cul-de-sac.

All that will stop as soon as you tell him, and mean it, that he is selfish fucknut and you refuse to waste one more day of your life with him.

oh ffs

seriously, he's a knob.

I'll crank up the outrage for you. no as a matter of fact I've not calmed down, I'm just getting warmed up sunshine, your behaviour over this has thrown into sharp relief some small points I've been trying to ignore for the sake of the children

sorry but he is a knob. Earlier you were talking about him talking you round.

remember this mantra

if he means this he will walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

Tell him you need him to listen to you then to go away and think about what you've said.

It's not selfish to expect to be happy with your life partner, honestly.

Like colditz said, maybe I'd buy the whole 'he wants to be cautious, two failed marriages, etc' thing if he hadn't had children with you.

But because of the fact that he did, yet expects to keep living this semi-bachelor lifestyle, it just doesn't wash.

Thing is, the OP has let him behave like this. As far as he;s concerned, he isn't doing anything wrong because he has told her quite clearly that what is on offer is all that is on offer and that he doesn't want to change. It does sound very much as though he has arranged his life to suit himself with the OP on hand to do the childcare and for him to have sex with sometimes but (again) the OP has gone along with it to the extent of agreeing to have DC with a man who has made it clear that he will not marry or even move in with her. GCB are you sure that you want a dedicated couple-relationship, rather than just thinking that you 'ought' to be having one?
I wonder if what you might actually want more of is time for yourself, time to see your friends, go to the pictures, takeup a hobby of some sort. WHy not try negotiating for that ie one evening a week, at the very least, he is in charge of the DC and you go out to do something that is only of benefit to you. This may help you remember that you are actually a person, not merely a housekeeper/nanny to this man's children.

It's all very well him being "honest" - I am crap at relationships, I don't want responsibility etc.

But this does not exonerate him.

He has children. He has responsibilities to them and to you.

He has been allowed to have his cake and eat it under the pretence of being "honest".

Quite honestly - he is a shirker and a user.
I would say he goes to counselling or it's over. Never mind being terrified - he is just terrified that his easy life will have to change.

What SGB said

Hi crazybones,

From reading your post you have answered all your own questions.
He doesn't seem bothered either way wether he sees you or not. He's take it or leave it kind of guy.
I don t think counselling would change him I just don think he is that into the relationship fullstop. Some peope connect others don't its not a counselling issue.
All you can do is play it cool don't arrange to c him. Let him arrange it, if he misses you he will otherwise you know your answer. And then its time to move on and find someone who loves you how you deserve to be loved.
For me the test would be if u don't arrange anything and c if he does.xxxxtake carex

Can i ask, when you and he were planning the children you have together, were you happy for him to continue living apart?

I hate his line that it's not personal, it bloody well is personal. If Cindy Crawford rocked up and asked to move in, he would so be up for it. Sorry, he is totally taking you for a ride. Dont flatter yourself that the fight he puts up to keep things just so is about his love for you. Its about how much he loves his life, as it is.

What a complete tosser.

He's also got you as daft as him. "He doesnt go on benders with the boys" No, because there's no bloody need, he is in the pub 6 till 10 on his single nights.

Good god, you would be silly to end your relationship over a Friday night out, but you are even silier to remain in this 'relationship' for the measly drip feed affection and non commitment.

Sorry I am not helping, am just totally stunned at your life.

You work AND do the vast majority of childcare? Does he contribute financially toyour household and joint children?

About 'calling the shots'. I doubt many relationships thrive where one partner calls the shots, except in some (to me) weird cult-like / religious set up where the man is head of household. And I wouldn't call that thriving, personally. I would expect mutual concern, consideration, equal stakes in all decision-making and an equal investment in the relationship, which meant that decisions are made jointly and with equal regard for each partners feelings and needs. Neither one of you should be calling shots - but atm you have no equal emotional or practical stake in this relationship.

You don't have to live together if another set-up suits you both, you can make your own rules - but unless you can make those rules together and each feel equally fulfilled and happy with them in all thier detail then it is not a valid partnership.

If you have children together but live apart then presumably he gives you money towards their upkeep and has them at his house a few times a week?

We have now had a conversation about this face to face.

He tried to brush it all off as a bit of a joke and said he'd love to take me out on Friday. I said that didn't wash with me and that he was clearly crestfallen when I suggested that the Friday date still stood even if we got together on Monday and that that was a huge disappointment to me.

I went beyond the petty issue of Friday and said that there had grown an assumption that because not all my children are his birth children and because we are not married and do not live together I am treated as though we are divorcees with one parent having residency. I said this was not actually the case and the lack of a marriage was irrelevant. I told him that even though he does not live with me, and even though he does not need my permission to go out, he should be checking that responsibility for our children whilst he suits himself each night is something I am happy to take on and that he should also offer me opportunties to have 'me time' and be as free in my whims to pursue leisure activities as he is. I said that he is the least involved parent I know that is in a relationship with the mother of his children, and even less involved than some separated fathers I know.

Finally, I said that the fact that I have to point any of this out and to request for him to prioritise time with me, leaves me undervalued and with a huge question mark as to his commitment and feelings for me.

I said that if I did not feel differently very quickly then I would not hesitate in leaving the relationship and guaranteed him that there would be someone out there who would feel honoured to spend time with me.

I was very calm in my approach and dismissed his "oh babe, you are being hormonal, I was just joking" crap and said that he could continue with the crap humour, and the blaming my period as much as he liked but that if I do not begin to feel cherished as of now then I would go without a moment's doubt.

I know that isn't as good as walking away right now but without speaking thoroughly to Relate or similar that was a step too far in my decision making for today.

Thank you for your advice. I don't expect I haved fixed things but do feel I have been plain about my expectations now. SolidGold was right...I have given permission for him to use my goodwill to his selfish advantage and it is only fair to make myself clear before judging his actions. I don't take responsibility for his selfishness but I do take responsibility for permitting his poor treatment of me.

What do you think? Have I been extremely weak willed or sensible in your opinion?

Good for you. He's had fair warning now and I think you need to operate a zero tolerance policy. Do you think he heard you and is taking you seriously?

I am seriously reeling at your life. I don't know where to begin...

What happened when you were pregnant with his children? Was he there when you went into labour? Did he just swan off to the pub and then back to his place once you were back from the hospital?

Why doesn't he have the children with him during the week? Why should they have to shuttle between houses anyway?

Presumably this means you did/do all the nightime caring for the children. How many do you have living with you?

It's really quite extraordinary.

I wouldn't be asking him to make me feel "cherished", I would be demanding that he take on his fair share of the parenting.

I wouldn't be asking him to make me feel "cherished", I would be demanding that he take on his fair share of the parenting.

I agree. You need an equal relationship of two responsible adults here. I think maybe you need to define what "cherished" is. Hopefully it's more than romantic evenings now and then, but something a lot more solid and dependable.