Don't know what to do about DH's temper

[foggybrain]

Name changed for this post.

DH has always had a bit of a temper, which will very occasionally explode - generally triggered by silly things and taking the form of ranting and raving but occasionally throwing things. Once he broke his foot when he kicked a wall in a temper. In that incident, I was frightened of him and we almost broke up because of it.

Fast forward and we have one DC (2) and another on the way in a few weeks. I've noticed he's been getting stressed recently. Some financial issues have come to light, that he has lied to me about over the past couple of years. I've been v short with him as I've been so angry and worried.

This evening though DH really lost his temper. We were all in car and he was being tailgated by another car which tried to overtake as DH swung into our drive (DH hadn't indicated so at fault too IMO). Cue DH beeping the horn, unleashing string of expletives, leaping out of the car, shouting and swearing at other driver, me shouting at him to calm down etc...

Other car drove off thank goodness and DH then proceeded to throw shopping into house, breaking some of it (eggs etc). Meanwhile our 2 year old is whimpering in back seat, completely terrified. I was concerned with comforting DC and we went into living room.

DH banged around kicthen slamming things for a bit, then came into living room and started acting as if nothing had happened. No apology except sarcastic one when I was glaring at him. I told him he had to apologise to DC (which he has done and DC seems ok). Felt I needed to keep facade of normality up whilst getting DC in bed.

Since then DH has disappeared upstairs on his computer. He knows I am furious. His usual tactic in any conflict is to ignore and stonewall when I try to discuss anything and hope I'll drop it in time.

This is not the first incident - he recently shouted at a woman that she was a 'fucking whore' in front of DC and I in the car. It seems he feels utterly justified in behaving this way. It isn't just heat of the moment, he won't accept he is wrong after the event either.

I feel so sorry for our DC to have to witness this. I really feel like this kind of behaviour is a deal breaker for me. Am worried about DC, and whether this could be traumatising. I was frightened of my father growing up and I would hate for that to happen to my child. DH/DC usually have a lovely relationship and DC2 is due in a few weeks.

Sorry this is so long, just really have no idea what to do now and need some perspectives :(

Please do read the link provided by mathanxiety. You are in a stage of calm now - where your DH has apologised. So this is the best stage of the cycle.

But you know, reading your post, what is crystal clear is that your DH is refusing to take any actual steps to address his issues. He is refusing to see the doctor about possible depression and he is refusing counselling. How long will it be until the next outburst, do you reckon?

So I really would most strongly urge you to deal with this. You have to insist. Really properly insist.

Ok, have been thinking about this and browsing the website mathaxiety linked to, and I think the situation is complicated. I think I have not always behaved very well towards DH, and that actually he is right when he says I am very critical of him. I will tend to run verbal rings around him and he says he doesn't want to discuss things with me as he will never win because I twist things so that I am the one in the right. I have been guilty of saying hurtful things to him in the past - generally out of sheer frustration as he literally will not say anything if I bring something up that upsets me, or will walk off or interrupt me/start reading his magazine or something as I am talking. I then get angry and frustrated and will make threats I don't really mean like that I will leave. However he says he doesn't discuss things with me because I will interpret what he says the wrong way.

He says he can't do anything right at the moment. I know he has beeen picking up more in the way of childcare, housework etc since I've been pregnant. I have about 80% of the lie-ins in our house, for example. We just seem to see things differently. I think if he stays up until 11.00 or 11.30 on the computer then he will be tired when DC wakes us at 6.00 the next day. But then I hog the lie-ins and feel bad about that.

The thing is, I used to do nice things for him all the time - buy cards or little presents or leave notes or cook something nice etc etc. But over the years it was never reciprocated and then he would always forget my birthday or our anniversary, or tear off into town to buy something the morning of my birthday, then complain like mad about the busy shops or he couldn't get what he wanted etc. I eventually just stopped bothering TBH although I will still do silly things like stop with DC on way home and buy him an iced bun. Also becuase of ms then PGP we hav barely had sex this pregnancy so maybe he is frustrated too.

I think we need to have a proper discussion and some couples counselling once the baby is here and past the intensive newborn phase, if I can get him to agree to go. I feel sad that I don't understand where our relationship has gone, we used to be so close.

So he's depressed and won't get help? Easy get out for him, then.

Why do YOU have to work so hard to get him to change his behaviour? I bet he wouldn't do the same for you.

If you think he is depressed, I would encourage him to go to his GP about it. He might not be keen, but once he can admit there's a problem to the GP, it's not quite so overwhelming.

DH was definitely not keen on speaking to ANYONE about it, however, we discussed it and he realised that if he didn't speak to anyone that it simply wasn't going to be fixed. He agreed it wasn't fair on us for him to be losing his temper and knew it was unusual behaviour for him and was a problem. So he basically put his neck out and made the GP appointment. I think it's much easier for him to speak to the GP now once the initial embarrassment was over. He's already told me he is going to be pushing for a better level of counselling tomorrow when he sees the GP.

Agree with others. Saying you're depressed is only a (partial) excuse for treating other people shittily if you are willing to seek treatment for the depression. Otherwise it's just an excuse and nothing will change.

If he chooses to stay up late faffing on the computer then I don't see why you should feel guilty for having a lie in. Different if he was working a late shift.

Perhaps you both need Relate if you think there are communication problems.

Foggy, you're heavily pregnant, and you're making excuses for his awful temper and foul language by saying that, whilst heavily pregnant with PGP, you have slept in some mornings and not wanted a lot of sex. You don't have to earn his good temper and his goodwill by putting out, you know?

Over the years he has ignored you, walked away halfway through your sentence, dismissed your feelings and your desire to communicate. You used to do nice things all the time - courting him, really, right? - and he wouldn't even remember your birthday. That's not a huge deal, perhaps, but are you seriously saying that it's an excuse for his current temper? Because you don't buy him constant presents?

Good reply, tortoise (brilliant scary name, too!) It's quite terrifying to see how a person can get slowly brainwashed into feeling they deserve rotten treatment because they're "not perfect enough" - as if that were rational. Boiled frog syndrome :(

"but he is not keen on going to the GP or counselling atm"

either he acepts he has a problem and gets help, sees the GP now - and then you mvoe forward.

or he doesnt.

and you have to consider that the next time he displays anger you will take drastic steps - eg you bar him from the house; or you leave with the DC. (how long this is for will be your call).

the more you continue "as normal" after his outbursts, the more they will continue...

diffcult as you pregnant etc - but you need to start thinking what behaviour./action you can take to make your views clear . like with a toddler or teenager displaying bad behviour.

you've recognized it is an issue and that your DC is suffering when this happens. is first step. get it out in the open. speak to your midwife/health visitor. call womens aid for a chat.

kee a log/record of how often this happens.

oh and read cycle of abuse. the 99 per cent nice does not make up for the one percent nasty when that nasty is very bad. abusers/angry people dont tend to be like that 24/7...

make threats you will follow thru with...

OP I get how you feel with your last post, I too feel guilty for lay ins etc and it is great that he is prepared to take some of the slack whilst you work. I can be cutting with my tongue too BUT I do know a little about this and that stonewalling and withdrawal is just a different form of the angry abuse. Its a passive aggressive way to control the situation, at which point you blow and he can then point the finger at you!

I had a man pull up, drag my car door open and start screaming in my face last week because HE cut ME up. It is one of the most terrifying things I have ever experienced and I am glad my kids arent in the car. Your partner is loosing control and depression isnt a good enough excuse for intimidating or hurting you or anyone else. If he wont get help, make plans to get out. Of course its ok now - that is part of the cycle. It wont last so start preparing to make your own decision.

please excuse AWFUL spelling - I am trying to type with baby on lap!!

'generally out of sheer frustration as he literally will not say anything if I bring something up that upsets me, or will walk off or interrupt me/start reading his magazine or something as I am talking. I then get angry and frustrated and will make threats I don't really mean like that I will leave. However he says he doesn't discuss things with me because I will interpret what he says the wrong way.'

Foggy, this is all his problem. It is not you who have caused any of this.

When he has decided not to engage with you, for any reason, when you try to talk with him about your relationship or anything else on your mind, then it's his choice not to respond in a grown up manner that is the problem, not your initial choice to bring something up or the fact that you may be more articulate than him (you run rings around him) -- which really translates as he knows he is wrong but he doesn't want to admit it and he refuses to change because that would involve losing face. He is admitting here that he is a stubborn, angry jerk. Prettyfly is absolutely right.

No wonder you are frustrated -- he is choosing to stonewall you, to ignore you, to treat you with rudeness instead of respecting you and the relationship. How is any of what he does a positive for the relationship?

The idea that he can't win with you is not the sort of attitude that is conducive to any kind of a good discussion in a relationship, where any sort of reshuffling should end in a win for everyone. A relationship is not a matter of one person being happy throwing his weight around and the other (and the children) wondering when she gets into the car whether she'll get out in one piece.

Saying he may have depression but won't go to the doctor about it is like a child who repeatedly leaves their books in school and can't do their homework saying, 'But I forgot them!' -- forgetting is the problem, not the solution to the problem. Although I do suspect that depression is only a small part of the picture here, his unwillingness to even see the GP shows he is far too comfortable playing Master Of All He Surveys.

I would caution against going to any joint counselling with this man. Go on your own to Women's Aid.

Violence doesn't have to take the form of a physical assault on a person. Throwing things, pounding walls or raging/inducing terror are worthy of a police call and they will respond.

Thank you everyone for your responses and sorry again for delay in coming back to this thread.

Yes, I agree that depression can't be used an excuse for poor behaviour, particularly as I have suffered from depression for years on and off. I think because of my past issues it has been easy to see me as the 'problem' in the relationship (I was pretty messed up still when we first got together in my late teens).

I did initiate another discussion with DH about:

1. What he is doing to sort out the financial situation he has created and lied to me about. The answer appears to be nothing since he 'fessed up two weeks ago other than the usual fobbing me off or saying he's been too busy - which means we will soon be in line for even more fines and possibly more serious consequences now as it has been going on for so long. I have repeatedly explained due to the way I grew up with extreme financial uncertainty and stress, I need to feel in control of finances and get very anxious when there are issues like this. Seems to hold no weight with DH - he apologises, but he doesn't take any action.

and

1. The temper tantrums. His response was if I hadn't been telling him off for snapping at DC when she was having tantrum and 'nagging/criticising' him, he wouldn't have blown up at the guy in the car. He then said I needed to learn from his Mum how to manage his temper. I pointed out that it was HIS job to control his temper, not mine, and was he seriously suggesting it was my responsibiltiy, to which he responded: 'everything you say is just silly'.

Ended up, as always, lapsing into silence then him acting like the conversation hadn't happened.

If I force myself to examine the brutal truth, he is not really interested in me or my feelings. He rarely asks me about things that are important to me, or engages in discussions on things, good or bad. He often tells me I worry too much, I am too critical, I am cold etc etc so I feel guilty that I must be so difficult to live with and love. But I wonder whether he really cares about me at all. He says he does, but he doesn't act like he does IYSWIM.

The thing is, he is up there reading our DC a story right now, he is a very involved and hands on father - everyone has always said what an amazing Dad he is, how she is a Daddy's girl etc though I think we have a special bond too. She would be devastated if we broke up - how could I do that to a 2 yo let alone to a child who hasn't even been born yet? Just sort of feel like I have to suck it up because what is clear to me now is I have spent ten years of my life hoping he will change. But he won't, will he? It's like he has an off switch he engages when I open my mouth.

Sorry this is epic again, just feel so sad writing this and forcing myself to admit what I know deep down. I have no idea what I will do from here. I still think counselling could be a way forward, and if he realises how critical the situation is feeling to me, maybe he will agree to go.

He then said I needed to learn from his Mum how to manage his temper.

Wow. He actually said that? Wow. It's your job to "manage" his temper? Gosh.

This man is bad news, foggy. I'm really sorry, it's a hard time in your life to be confronting this. But, he criticises you and puts you down and stonewalls you and blames you for his temper (v scary, will he also tell you you provoked him, the first time he hits you?), he lies about money and gets you into debt rather than deal with things.

He's a good father, you say, but she sees him screaming "whore" at women, smashing eggs, she was whimpering, completely terrified. And even before the incident, he was snapping at her, yes? She'll grow up and learn to tiptoe around him and will always be scared.

Hang in there, keep posting, I hope you can find some way out of this.

You say she'd be devastated if you broke up?

She'll be even more devastated when she's nine and he breaks her nose.

Look, he doesn't love you. To truly see someone's opinion of you, wear ear protectors and pretend you're deaf for two weeks, and jugge them by their actions.

he acts like you are the shit on his shoe.

therefore, that's what he thinks of you, regardless of what actually spouts from his mouth.

Foggy, all small children love their parents, no matter what those parents are like. It's hard-wired; part of the survival mechanism.

Take it from me: it's a damn sight worse to discover, as an adult, that the parent you always adored is a self-serving arse than to be upset at he age of two but grow up knowing what a safe, secure home feels like. You can build that home on your own for DD. Your H, who appears to feel his arsiness is something the world should put up with, can't. If a someone comes along later, who knows how to love you & DD safely, great.

Meanwhile you're in the very difficult position of a wife & mother whose home is not a sanctuary. Horrible for you. It is really hard to accept things aren't working. There's so much expectation, so many hopes, riding on the whole deal. I sympathise. But, honestly, once you start thinking for a toddler over it - you're grasping at straws. She is two years old. She doesn't even know what other Daddies are like, never mind what kind of a home environment will be best for her as she develops her character. Those choices are yours to make on her behalf.

It's tough. But you're not stupid.

Foggy,

Re your comment:-
"We both think he is probably depressed and has been for a while, but he is not keen on going to the GP or counselling atm".

I wonder why that is. He will never attend any cousenlling session and you can talk to him till you're blue in the face but it won't make any difference whatsoever.

Your own past experiences probably drew you subconsciously to such a man in the first place.

If you have counselling you'd be better off going to such sessions on your own. Also due to the ongoing verbal violence shown on his part no decent counsellor would see you both together anyway.

You write yourself he is not interested in you and your feelings. I think he is projecting his own self onto you when he describes you as critical and cold. Yet another tactic employed by abusive men.

His mother is not responsible for his temper and neither are you. You are not responsible for this man ultimately.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?. I would appreciate an answer to that question.

What are you both teaching the DC about relationships here?. Two words suffice; damaging lessons. Lessons that they may well go onto repeat themselves as adults. This is no legacy to leave them.

yes my exP had the line that his temper whatever was always someone else's fault...

he did have depression - when he completely exploded i was willing to believe that was the cause...later he explicitly said he had never been mentally ill ... whatever the excuses, he will amke different ones as it suits.

yes your dd loves him - so does my youngest. but i can see how the older one - who saw and understood a lot more - is a lot more damaged by the anger/stress/aggression . their relationship is not good. the youngest dd and dad - yes it is sitll fine. and that is living aprt. your dc CAN still have a relationship with their dad whether you and him as aprents are apart or together - but statying together (and haivng them witness agression/anger/violence) could well damage that.

you can save that "good father" relationship by putting your foot down about the behaviour...

attila I have asked myself the same question and I am struggling to think what I am getting from the relationship TBH. I guess practical things, mainly - DH is good around the house and with childcare, especially compared to most. What am I getting emotionally, spiritually and intellectually? I don't know.

Torture should have said I think he is a good father majority of the time, but no, I don't agree that his temper outbursts are fair to DD, or being a good father. However, I can't claim to be perfect either, certainly not as a parent.

ghoul and c'estlavie I am really struggling to know what the best thing is to do. Both DH's family and mine would think it insane to split up our family over DH's temper - it is well known/accepted in his family. None of them would support me if we were to split. I've seen the impact with a close family member of relationship breakdown on a toddler. Would our DC really be better off with me as single mum?

colditz I honestly, honestly, do not believe he would ever be physically violent towards DC or me. I would never stay in those cirumstances.

Are solely practical things enough?. Is this the relationship model you really want to teach your children, its not an ideal one is it?.

No-one is perfect but I reckon you can control your temper, the difference here is your H cannot or will not do so. You are still not responsible for him here. It has been long accepted in his family that this is the case, their actions I would argue have also made him worse.

Or are you also afraid of going it alone with your children?. The fear is sometimes worse than the reality.

Emotional abuse is just as damaging as physical scars. You may not see it physically but the scars are still there all the same and living with someone like this is undoubtedly emotionally draining. This currently is no legacy to leave them.

what about the imapct on your child now of his behaviour?

"DH then proceeded to throw shopping into house, breaking some of it (eggs etc). Meanwhile our 2 year old is whimpering in back seat, completely terrified."

you have been "frightened of him "

do you think that it is better to be with someone, frightened and scared sometimes, just for the sake of it? is it worth it?

in the end it is your choice what you do about this, what stand you take, how far you go....

if your DH does something to address the temper and anger then sure, stay...

if he does not then you have to seriously consider whether violence against objects that make your child terrified is something your child should have to put up with. not you - your child(ren).

"the impact with a close family member of relationship breakdown on a toddler. Would our DC really be better off with me as single mum? "

the impact depends on a whole lot of factors. have alook at that situation and analyse why it had such an impact....what was reason for break up etc etc etc.

an angry H before during and after a split can make things difficult - but splitting does mean you can have a safe secure place where your DC know for sure that these outbursts don't happen. and that is hugely valuable. my dc blossomed away from angry exP.

sometimes, it is the only option to break the cycle. maybe just maybe -- if he really understands that you would be prepared to do this for your DC, if things dont change, then maybe just maybe he might be prepared to take steps to change himself.

"he is not physically violent towards DC or me" -sure, it is only walls, eggs, shopping - but what if your DS runs in front of his foot, gets in the way at the wrong time, what if it happens to be his head that receives the thrown remote control? could kill him...what if he throws the baby seat or pushes the pushchair angrily into the road...he is unpredictable right?
kids can easily move the wrong way at the wrong time...

he does know he is violent towards objects, he knows he is (so far) not aiming at you or DC. that is purposeful - because it does say to you - sublimily - watch out! it could be you next! otherwise - why would you or your DS be terrified?

Foggy sorry to hear of this, i am in a similar situation, my husband has always let rip, like that and then looked astonished if it has upset me and the kids, and his language is terrible, he of course always blames the other person for provoking him, at best its horribly embarrassing and at worse its frightening and dangerous, i have had years of it, i have tried and tried to explain to H how it makes us feel but to no avail, not sure what advice i can give you really, but just to say i am thinking of you.

No Attila, I don't think it is enough or a good model for our DC. I want them to grow up wanting something more. And yes, the thought of being on my own with two young children is frankly terrifying.

I think cestlavie, I have to make it crystal clear I will not accept any more of this behaviour in front of our DC. In terms of some of the other things - the lack of consideration and communication between us - I'll have to think longer term what I want to do about it and whether I am still prepared to put up with it.

susie :( sounds exactly the same as my DH. I wish I had some advice for you too, it is crap. Thank you for your post though.

Thanks everyone who has posted on this thread for all your views and understanding, I do appreciate it. I've got some thinking to do.

I've read all the posts here and I'm afraid I agree that he is abusive and that this situation won't get better.

To be honest I got stuck at him calling a stranger a'fucking whore'. I don't know any decent men who would use that terminology and my dh is a very blokey, not particularly pc man. He'd never call a woman a 'whore', it wouldn't even cross his mind.

I'm sorry for the turmoil you are in and hope you will stay on here and listen to the great advice and kind words you are getting from women who have been in your shoes.

Hi OP. All i can do is share with you my experience as the child in a very similar situation. My dad has always had serious anger issues. To the point in fact that my most vivid early memory of him is being in the car, and when someone overtook too close for his liking, he grabbed my dolly and hurled it out of the window at the other car whilst shouting like a maniac. He did nice things too of course, but honestly that is the strongest memory i have of him. Of course i was terrified and upset. He was having money issues, which made him angry and depressed all the time. My mother left him in the end, because he made our lives miserable and refused to seek help. I am not saying you should leave, you obviously love him very much, but the man has issues, and in my mind it is his responsibility as a husband and father to get help and learn how to channel his anger in a more healthy manner. Ask him if he wants his kids to have there memories when they think of him. Your DC may be small but so was i, it's amazing what children pick up on and store away in their little minds. I no longer have contact with my father, as i can not forgive him for his selfish actions towards me and my mum, and to be honest i find it depressing to spend time with him. Good luck, hopefully with your support he will take action.

*these memories...not 'there'