Parental responsibility/court/access...aaarrgghhhh!!!

[worriedwendy10]

Hi, long story short... suffered domestic violence from the ex, he didn't see the kids for a bit then started up again. Changed his mind for a bit then wanted to see them again, blah blah. This went on for a few months then his true colours come out so i stopped him again. Went to mediation and agreed on 1x weekly visits, its now been 3 months he's been seeing them again and i got a text message saying his current girlfriend had "smashed his face in" (his words not mine) so he didn't want the kids to see him. When i asked why he said "she was bladdered and went psycho" of course he did nothing to her!! I told him she was to have no contact with the kids while they see him, if they want a violent relationship thats their call but i'm not subjecting the kids to that especially when thats why i got away from him. He kicked off then few days later said they'd split up. The kids were with him today and my daughter told me his girlfriend was there and they spent the whole day together!! I now want to go to court, he has no respect for my wishes or knows what is in the best interests of the kids and i'd rather die than let my kids witness any sort of aftermath of their twisted relationship. Do i take him to court or does he take me? Does the maintenance stop if he has no contact? How much does all this cost?
Thankfully he doesn't know where i live (cos of DV history) and i can easily change my mobile so the nasty texts and phone calls won't happen again, just want whats best for my babies but not too sure about all the legal stuff. HELP!!!

Ring womens aid tomorrow for advice as they will know. Citizens advice can also be helpful but call womens aid first. He'll only take you to court if he approaches the solicitor first, which won't happen will it? Speak to womens aid tomorrow.

You don't have to do anything. He'll have to apply to the court for a contact order. Do you qualify for legal aid? If not you could always represent yourself if it came to it.

No i don't get legal aid, they worked all that out when we went to mediation. Don't think i could represent myself, he's a professional liar, manipulates everyone around him. I'd need a professional to battle against him, i don't have the strength. Will do what teaandcakeplease said and ring womens aid. I've dealt with them before as i stayed in a refuge through them, didn't know they dealt with all this side of things though. Thanks very much xx

I've been through this process with ex (dv too) and I stopped contact, he then had to take me to court. He started off on his own, made the application to the court just had to fill in forms and pay a fee but then got a solicitor. So unless you're sure he would take it to court? You think you don't have the strength but you would be surprised what you can manage.

This web link is helpful

I think he will take take it to court, not to do with the kids but because he doesn't like to lose and thats all this is to him, a game. I'll definitely ring Womens Aid tomorrow, cheers x

I did a lot of reading online, googling etc as mine was the same, all about control. Hope it goes well for you. Court is very stressful I found but needs must.

Thanks, i'm doing the same now. I know it won't be easy but i have to look after my kids, they're only 4 and 2. They love spending time with him (mostly because he feeds them sweets all day) but in the long term he's no good for them, he's a wrong'n as my nan would say. Plus i know he smokes weed and is prob back on the coke and thats not the kind of father i want for my babies. Chances are though, he'll still be granted access if he does go through court and thats what concerns me. My kids are only young and by the time its all sorted through court they prob won't remember him and then they'd be expected to spend the day with him! Thats what i'm worrying about, how it all affects them

I'm afraid that in general you cannot control who your children see while they are with your ex. Unless you can show that she this woman is a danger to your children it is unlikely that you will be able to legally stop your ex from taking them to see her.

If there is already a contact order in place you should not stop contact. If you do and he takes you to court the case will be about making you comply with the contact order and it will be harder for you to get your objections heard. It sometimes works out ok but it often leaves the parent who is preventing contact on the back foot.

If there is no contact order you are in a better position but stopping contact completely or attempting to enforce conditions which the courts may see as unreasonable would still look bad to the court.

It seems that all you have on this girl is an allegation from him that she was violent towards him when drunk. He may well deny that if it goes to court (indeed, based on what you say I think there is a reasonable chance it is untrue) and in any case this is a long way from her being violent to your children or even in front of them. I am afraid it is unlikely that the courts would agree to bar your ex from allowing the children to see her based on this evidence.

On a more positive front, maintenance and contact are not linked. He has to pay maintenance whether or not there is any contact.

Due to his past behaviour and also because he has been convicted of assault on me, now that he has entered another violent relationship surely that should raise concern on his ability to keep the children safe? I know the liklihood of them witnessing anything is very little but its the reprocusions that concern me. Seeing the cuts and bruises and sensing the atmosphere, kids are very intuitive. Plus my daughter has already witnessed things from when we were together, she's only 4 and her behaviour is classic of someone involved in DV. I'm pretty sure given the circumstances the courts would not want to subject a child to the same thing again. He only sees the kids for 7 hours a week as it is, i've asked him to make sure she isn't there when the kids are, not much to ask really considering, but he can't manage to do that. He obviously thinks more of her than he does his own kids

worried I get the sense from your posts that this is about you not wanting the kids to see him, as he is ' a wrong 'un', smokes weed and likely back on the coke. I imagine this is the exact same guy you got pregnant to twice, assuming at the time that weed was fine? It seems a bit like closing the door after the horse has bolted to only now decide what kind of guy you want to father the two children you already have

Maintenance is not tied up with contact, in other words, there is no 'pay per view' arrangement. If there mediated agreement was for once a week contact, and you stop it, he may go for a contact order. He would be wise to as you seem to stop it as and when it suits you. It is not up to you to decide who the children see when they are with him. If he is deemed fit enough to have contact with his kids, outwith a contact centre, then he is deemed able enough to decide who should be around the children. You may not like it, and I understand your anxiety due to the dv you suffered, but that's the way the contact works.

Obviusly if he was found to be violent to the children that would be a different matter.

The children have a right to see their father, the court will always decide what is in the best interest of the children, not the parents.

Has contact already been agreed through court? Your most recent post makes me very Especially assaulting you.

Try not to worry, speak to some people tomorrow and then work out how the land lies x

Actually at the time the weed was not fine and neither was the coke or the drinking or the hitting and punching and throwing about but if you understood anything about domestic violence you would understand that it is about control and when you are in that situation, although you know it is wrong, you feel you can't do anything about it because this person has a hold over you. I asked him to stop a million times and he would for a while but then it would start up again and i would never push it too much for fear of getting a smack. Yes i did get pregnant twice to this guy and i don't regret that for one second, my kids are my life which is why i got away from him so they don't repeat his cycle. I am not now deciding what kind of guy he is, i've always known what he is and now i'm away from that i will not subject my kids to it ever again. Oh and its not me that stopped the contact previously it was him. He would see them for a few weeks and then decide it was too much because he found it difficult seeing me!! I stopped him last time because he told me that he wouldn't be seeing much of the kids soon anyway because he'd have a "new family" soon so they wouldn't get a look in, before telling me to fuck off and pushing me over, all in front of my 3 and 18 month old, so yes i stopped contact that time! He also has not officially been deemed fit to have contact outside a contact centre because we have never taken it to court which is what my original post was about

Wendy I sent you a private message at the top of the web page they'll be a little envelope with a red dot on it.

Horrid situation for you

No we've not been through court yet, we went to mediation last time to try and make that work. I didn't have the money last time, I left him so he had the house and everything i just walked away with mine and the kids clothes. I'd just found somewhere to live and sorted a job when he started messing about so because i was working i couldn't get legal aid and didn't have any savings. I'm in a better position now so can afford to do the court thing. I don't particularly want to but don't know what other option i have? My children may be at risk of witnessing abuse when they have contact with their father, what else can i do?

I am not attacking you, I appreciate you have suffered violence, and would never play down the massive affect that has on a person. Or the kids. But you confirmed what I thought, that you want to never subject your kids to dv ever again, and by extension, their father.

That is how it seems to me. I understand why you would feel this way, that you might rather they forget about him and you all get on with your lives. But it is not as simple as that, they are children, they are innocent of all this, they will see him as daddy who buys them sweets and plays with them (easy when its a few hours a week). They have not been abused physically by him, and so they most likely will have a rught to see him. Thats the thing you are finding difficult, and yet it is unlikely to change.

Saying that, if there was police records of violence and the kids being witness, the socail services should have a note of it, sent by the police, and that COULD help your case.

Social services weren't involved. The kids didn't witness the reported assaults, they would've been taken off me if they had, the kids witnessed the arguing and pushing and shoving. I don't want the kids to forget about their father, i am not trying to punish him for what he did to me, i am trying to keep them safe. He (by his own admission) has entered into another violent relationship, its only a matter of time before the kids witness something, whether it be an arguement or worse. I am the only one who can protect them from this, as you say all they see is someone who buys them sweets. What kind of mother would i be if i sent them into a house knowing there was violent behaviour taking place in there? I'm not denying him access, i've never said that, i just think it needs to be controlled in some way because he doesn't take a blind bit of notice of me

Why do you say the kids would have been taken off you if they had seen the violence? Surely that's not correct?

I didn't think you were trying to punish your ex. I know you want them to not see violence again. Understand that. But if none of the violence you endured was witnessed and no police reports done, and all you have is his word that his new gh is violent (lets face it, it is most likely him too) then there is nothing to stand up in court.

You cannot ask for supervised contact on the basis that there MIGHT be violence in the future with his new gf and him. At least I don't think it will get you anywhere.

My DH's exwife tried to kill her three kids by another man, he was awarded residency, even though he was reglarly accused of violence to her (and her to him) and the police were called to the house umpteen times. He still was awarded resideny as he hadn't been violent to the kids.

Is it worth getting a free half hour with a lawyer?

I work in a social services dept and i know how they work. Yes the kids didn't see him dragging me from the lounge to the kitchen by my head then pick me up by my throat and hold me over the sink while punching me, nor (on another occasion) did they see him jump me from behind and smash my face into the pavement but they did witness him pushing me over (once when 5 months pregnant), throwing things at me (and them when babes in arms) and generally being aggressive. I don't care if it MIGHT happen the fact is it shouldn't happen. No-one in their right mind would allow this to happen whether kids are present or not, this behaviour is totally unacceptable on every level and if you don't see that then i pity your kids (if indeed you have any!) I don't know any mother who would put their kids in danger and i will certainly fight all the way to make sure mine aren't exposed to anymore. Me thinks your DH's solicitor was a bit dodgy!!

Whoa slow down there lady. Perhaps I could have made my post a little clearer. The exwife lost her three kids by the other man, not my dh. Dh has never hit a woman in his life. The exwife had three kids to this other man, the police were called loads, both were fighting and all kids did witness it. Nothing went as far as court, god knows why. She drove the car into a tree at great speed after telling her ex she was going to kill them. He got residency. I have no idea who his solicitor was, whether he was dodgy but I do know we tried to get dh's son who still lives at hers to come here, but he wont. He is now stuck in the role as his mother's protector and worries that the violence will be worse if he is not there. It's a sad old mess and very tragic.

You seem to have the attitude that I don't believe the violence you suffered, otherwise I have no idea why you are posting the detail of that ordeal. I do believe you, I am merely pointing out that if there is no police record of violence at your end, or his, how are social services, cafcass or courts going to make a ruling on his fitness to parent?

Are you saying social services would remove kids from an abused woman, damage her and her kids lives further, simply for being the victim of abuse, not the perpetrator? I would have thought they would have helped said woman to get away, not punish her, break up her family.

Finally, my son has never witnessed violence at home so please, no need for your pity.

After thinking some more on your situation, you do have a record of the violence (the conviction of dv) so it could well be possible to apply for supervised contact, on the basis they have already seen violence and you fear there is current violence.

Should have thought the mediation would have brought that up. Have no time for CAFCASS really, i think they are overworked and under resourced but they might be just who you need in this case. They are more likely to make the supervised call on the basis of the dv. Good luck

Wendy see a solicitor asap. It's possible to apply to the court for a prohibited steps order to prevent certain people, even a child's father, from contact with children. The court are unlikely to agree to this, but...

In cases of contact where DV has existed, the court must seek a fact finding report via cafcas prior to allowing unsupervised contact. You can prove he has a history of violence within the home. If this is not cause for approaching contact with caution, I don't know what is!

Your children are particularly vulnerable given their ages, one is pre-verbal? This must all be very difficult for you and understandably worrying - I think if you have concerns over the safety of your children you have valid reason to halt contact but please, see a solicitor!

Wendy, I have a lot of sympathy for you. I would love to say that it will all work out the way you want. Unfortunately I'm not sure it will. Let me try to explain how the courts would look at this.

Their starting point is that your children are entitled to contact with their father. It is important to understand that this is the way the courts look at it. It isn't about his right to contact with them, it is about their right to contact with him.

The courts take the view that in most situations you cannot control what he does or who he sees when he has the children. Equally he cannot control what you do or who you see when you have the children. There are limits to this, of course.

If I understand you correctly there is no contact order in place. That means you are free to stop contact. However, if you do he is likely to use that as evidence that you are unreasonable. You may then face an uphill battle to convince the court that you had good reasons for your actions.

He has been violent to you. However, as I understand it he has not been violent to your children nor has he sexually abused them. It is possible the court will order supervised contact but I'm afraid that in these situations they frequently order unsupervised contact. The fact that you have allowed unsupervised contact up to now may suggest to the court that it is ok to continue with that.

The courts frequently come across mothers trying to stop their children having any contact with their ex's new girlfriend. The fact that you have allowed unsupervised contact until she came on the scene may lead the court to conclude that you are such a mother. And I'm afraid you have no evidence to justify barring her from contact. All you have is a statement by your ex which he will undoubtedly deny. Even if you were able to prove he made the statement that doesn't mean the violence took place. It may have been an excuse or he may have been being a drama queen. Whilst you can go for a prohibited steps order to try and block any contact with her, in my view you are unlikely to get it and it may lead the court to believe you are being unreasonable.

I think the best you can hope for is supervised contact but you should be aware that there is a reasonable chance he will get unsupervised contact if this goes to court. You definitely need to see a solicitor who specialises in family law. If you hunt around you should be able to find one who will give you a half hour consultation for free.

perfumedlife you're bringing your own baggage into a very delicate situation and I think you are attacking the OP, so do fuck off, there's a love.