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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

When dh won't leave....

42 replies

piknmix · 03/10/2010 21:51

Have asked him to go but he just won't (we argue all the time; I don't think we have a relationship any more). He wants to stay together 'for the sake of the kids' (aged 6 and 10). I can't afford to go (only work part-time and I wont leave the children. Has anyone else dealt with a dh who won't separate?

OP posts:
kyotokate · 03/10/2010 22:24

When in this situation I left but, you have 2 DC.

Please see a good family solicitor ASAP and start divorce proceedings.... unreasonable behaviour.

teaandcakeplease · 03/10/2010 22:44

Go and see a solicitor or begin with citizens advice and then a solicitor. Find out your rights, where you stand legally and then put a plan together. Knowledge is power as they say.

This situation must be awful as the underlying tension and possible open conflict is not good for you or DCs Sad Could you stay with a friend or family for a short while until he knows you mean business?

itsallmadness · 03/10/2010 22:48

Pixnmix, not sure i can help you but I am in a similar position. My DH wont leave and has basically said that breaking up the family would cause more pain than staying together. I am a SAHM and he says he cant afford to keep two houses and maintenance, including school fees. I feel trapped in a marriage that I can't leave for the sake of my DC's happiness and security. To some people financial security may seem shallow but when DC have been bought up in secure and happy surroundings, taking these away from them for my happiness seems cruel. Feeling sad.

silveryfox · 04/10/2010 00:16

I'm in exactly the same circs right now myself - but have decided to leave instead. Am panicking as "D"H has said that as its me breaking the family up (and because of this I'm an unfit mother apparently) he won't leave, but if I leave he says I have to still pay half of the mortgage, bills, loan, etc here as well as finding somewhere else to live. I earn too much to get legal aid, and don't want to go down the route of getting more debt to pay solicitors fees. Don't know what to do really! Hope someone else will come along soon who's been through it and can give us the benefit of their experience and tell us how they got through it! Also feeling very sad!

SolidGoldBrass · 04/10/2010 00:19

Call Women's Aid 0808 2000 247. You do NOT have to put up with horrible men mistreating you. You are not property and your life, feelings and wellbeing matter. If these men had their DC's interests at heart they would make sure they treated you properly.

Footlong · 04/10/2010 00:37

He is quite within his rights and in fact acting very much in his interests. The partner that leaves automtically has a weaker position in any subsequent family law proceedings.

I have given advice in real life like this before, and it has always been the correct advice and saved a lot of hassle. The best thing to do is talk, and if needed to get some lawyers involved to nut out an agreement before he moves out.
If he is smart he wont move an inch until he gets the custody and financial arrangements he wants, or as close as he can get.

Given the facts as stated by you you have no right to kick him out. So try to avoid that confrontational path, and just talk through a solution which both you can handle.

Footlong · 04/10/2010 00:39

silveryfox - Same advice to you, but in reverse. He is correct in many of his assertions, be VERY careful about leaving the family home.

silveryfox · 04/10/2010 00:41

Footlong - which of his assertions are correct?

Footlong · 04/10/2010 00:46

That it will be an argument that you were the one breaking up the family and abandoning it. Dont take my word for it, just look at fmaily court cases. It isnt always belived, but it is an argument often made and often successful.

And there is a good chance you would be financially liable for mainting the family home you chose to leave.

I am not saying that all these things will come to pass, but be very careful about voluntarily leaving the family home as these things ARE used in court. Man or woman is largely irrelevant.

That is why (except in violent situations) nobody should ever allow themselves to be kicked out.

silveryfox · 04/10/2010 00:53

But what else can I do?? He will NOT leave. He DOES NOT want to split. I don't see why me wanting to not be in a relationship with him anymore due to all the reasons (and more) that I have already given - none of which are flimsy and without basis - means that I should come off worst. Do I deserve to have to stay in a very unpleasant unhappy relationship because he will not leave and won't accept its over? We tried staying in the same house but living separately but he cannot do this either - by his own admission. So he cannot be adult enough to accept its finally over and that he cannot talk me round as he has in the past, but he also doesn't have to leave, and because of this I have to leave but in doing so I am leaving myself open to coming off worse in a court case? Great! I'd just about convinced myself I was doing the right thing.... Thanks Just because I leave the house voluntarily - what could he do? What would the court bring about?

silveryfox · 04/10/2010 00:54

And by the way, he is borderline violent - his temper and childish tantrums (from a 6'4" man built like a brick privy) are a huge part of why I'm leaving. He only ever does this when its just us - never when anyone else is around....

silveryfox · 04/10/2010 00:56

Oh and I'm not abandoning the family - I fully intend to take my boy with me. He's my family now - not that tosser.

Footlong · 04/10/2010 01:01

silveryfox - I would strongly suggest you see a lawyer before you do any of these things . I have tried to give you my advice, and you seem to see it as an attack on you.

And I did not persume to say how the case would pan out, I dont know! I am just saying that the argument he would be legally able to make, and that you would have to defend.

silveryfox · 04/10/2010 01:10

I know - but I don't know why me wanting out of this relationship should go against me. If I truly WAS an unfit mother, then I could understand it, but I'm not. I'm the primary caregiver, for Gods sake the man doesn't even wake up in the night when the baby wakes.I've been doing the job of a single parent for months and months and months. I'm on duty 24/7 AND I work full time. He works extremely long hours (leaves at 7am gets home often after 9pm), we hardly see each other from one day to the next - even now I'm cooking for him and washing for him, I've never stopped him from going out/folloiwng his hobby (which is playing bass in a band which entails him often not getting in from a gig in central London until 5am in the morning) or spending money on his hobby. The only hobby I ever had was jewellery making and he even had a problem with that! I'm just exasperated at how unfair it seems from what you're telling me! tell me what I should do then - please! Sounds like he has already been talking to someone/getting legal advice.

zazen · 04/10/2010 01:15

Silveryfox, please take SGB's advice, and call women's aid. If your husband is kicking up, call the police.

SGB:
"Call Women's Aid 0808 2000 247. You do NOT have to put up with horrible men mistreating you. You are not property and your life, feelings and wellbeing matter. If these men had their DC's interests at heart they would make sure they treated you properly."

Footlong may be right about leaving the family home if there is no violence, but his posts are insensitive and a little inflammatory IMVHO.

Hope you're ok. Stay safe, and good luck with it.

Footlong · 04/10/2010 01:15

Silveryfox - I am not judging you or your marriage. I am just trying to illustrate possible pitfalls before you fall for them. You think he is annoying now? Try how annoying he might be after he has manipulated the system against you!

You dont need much legal advice yet, just enough to make sure you are not making a mistake at this early step. Play by the rules Silvery, you might not like it, but in the long term, it will be for the best.

Yes it def sounds like he has had some advice, counter that with your own advice (more than MN!), keep your cool and think of the long term goal.

silveryfox · 04/10/2010 01:40

Want to apologise to Picknmix for hijacking - sorry! x

piknmix · 04/10/2010 06:03

no problem - but I read your posts silveryfox with a sad heart. very appreciative of the advice but I'm left with feeling even more trapped. I asked him last night why he would want to condemn me to a loveless marriage for the rest of my life. I think he's putting his head in the sand over our relationship. Of course it's easier for him in lots of ways if I stay - I am the pin of friendship networks, the one who does the family 'unit' work (planning days out, holidays, events - xmas, haloween, etc). Don't courts recognise that it harms the dcs to be in the middle of so much tension and a loveless marriage?

OP posts:
piknmix · 04/10/2010 06:04

sorry - meant footlong

OP posts:
kyotokate · 04/10/2010 08:33

piknmix your Husband is not listening to you. You have to do something and since you do not want to leave the only thing you can do is to start divorce proceedings.
Go to www.resolution.org.uk and find a good family solicitor.

I realise I am repeating myself but what else can you do. You really cannot stay in the situation you are in it is not good for you your Husband or your children.

Footlong · 04/10/2010 08:49

piknmix - I am not in a position to tell to leave or not. All I am saying is that you need to plan and work towards a goal. Like in any aspect of life, those who respond best under pressure do the best. Business, sport whatever. And you are under pressure now, so help mitigate it by careful planning, so that when you do have your moments of... anger... the damage is minimal.
Write a goal down, and then the logical steps required to get there. First on the list might be lawyers, then money, then accomodation etc etc. Just plan it out, and then you will see it slowly take shape and when shit hits the fan, you can just fall back on the progress made and the long term goal.
My fav saying in life is the one about 'luck just being where oppurtunity and preparation meet' .... make yourself lucky!

It is all very well people telling to just leave him etc etc, but you need to keep cool and play the 'game' towards your goal... not short term relief for long term angst.
The reason so many people are in such dire straights nowdays is because they rush around working themselves into a lather over jealousy or impatience.

wow... this turned into a sermon.. sorry.

ItsGraceAgain · 04/10/2010 09:32

Unpleasant relationships leave the more vulnerable partner (usually the woman) with fewer choices, and erode her self-confidence. Silveryfox, your H has already managed to get you questioning your own senses and to an extent you're living in an alternative reality. The legal system fails people in such situations. It is built on an adversarial premise and assumes rationality, which is sorely lacking in abusive marriages.

IF you can find ways to take a cold, calculated and logical approach to things then you'll be able to get the system working in your favour. It's a good idea to go on fact-finding missions (CAB and Women's Aid) so you know where your strengths lie and what you'll need to do. If you don't feel emotionally or physically strong enough to carry through a hard-hearted game plan, then use the available services to relocate yourself & DC into a safe place. When you're away from H's bullying, you will be in a better frame of mind to sort things out from there - you'll have ready access to support services then, too.

I'm trying to point out that Footlong's advice is good enough, but takes no account of emotional disturbance. This is an example of what you'll find if you stick to pursuing a 'normal' divorce - as you're in an abnormal marriage, it leaves you on a back foot.

Piknmix, I addressed this to silveryfox because I've read her other posts: I hope your situation isn't as distressing! You're still left with a choice between making a calculated plan and getting the hell out, though. What a despicable thing for a man to do to his wife & family.

2rebecca · 04/10/2010 09:42

Divorce is expensive, an initial consultation with a solicitor is often free though. Not seeing a solicitor is a false economy.
I don't blame him for not leaving, why should he, it's his house too and he's happy there?
In Scotland the first step is deciding on a date of separation , if you still live together then the marriage could still be considered over from that date. It would be expected that you'd be in seperate rooms event if in the same house.
You can then go ahead with separation arrangements, selling the house etc.
Get legal advice before doing anything.

ItsGraceAgain · 04/10/2010 09:47

Yes - and serve him with a divorce petition. Very few rebuttals of 'unreasonable behaviour' are entertained by the courts. Heavy snoring is enough. Once you're divorcing, he will have to address the home & childcare issues.

2rebecca · 04/10/2010 09:47

Why is he being despicable in refusing to leave his house?
If a man told his wife to leave the house and leave the kids with him just because he no longer wished to be married to her we'd consider that unreasonable.
Why is it OK for a woman to try and throw a man out of his home?
I agree his "staying together for the kids" isn't workable if his wife wants a divorce but no-one should be made homeless just because the person they are living with changes their mind.
Separation and divorce takes time.