When dh won't leave....

[piknmix]

Have asked him to go but he just won't (we argue all the time; I don't think we have a relationship any more). He wants to stay together 'for the sake of the kids' (aged 6 and 10). I can't afford to go (only work part-time and I wont leave the children. Has anyone else dealt with a dh who won't separate?

2Rebecca: Because he is bullying and intimidating and abusing his wife, that's why it's reasonable to throw him out of the house. Abusers forfeit the right to stay in the family home if they are abusing others within it, end of.

The OP just said the marriage was loveless, she didn't say it was abusive.

Because partners respect each other's wishes, 2rebecca. His wife is so unhappy she wants to end the marriage, he's saying "suck it up, wifey, I'm not going anywhere". Reasonable people find somewhere to stay while they sort themselves out. I'm assuming she's the main childcarer, as he works full-time.

I'm puzzled as to why you're talking about separation, though, piknmix, when you can start a divorce. FWIW, mine said he didn't want to either. After I petitioned him, he threw a fit & said if anyone was divorcing anyone for unreasonable behaviour, it would be him! So I got a fresh set of forms for him, let him write about how horrible I was, and agreed to it. He did move back in for several months - we lived separately - but that's often necessary, I'm afraid.

I went on the CAB website and thought I saw that you had to separate for 2 years. I had told him before this that I wanted a divorce and he just says 'don't be stupid'-or the last time ws 'you couldn't afford to separate from me' (absolutely the wrong thing to say to me). Oh, he's not a bad man, don't misunderstand me - but he does nothing for the 'family unit' and I just can't play happy families anymore when it's me doing all the work to bolster this unit. He thinks families (and of course his relationship with his wife)just 'happens'. If I saw evidence of him trying to make it work - and let's face it - he could one of any number of things (suggest and organise a day out for us all; book a holiday - it neednt be expensive; suggest we play a family boardgame - as simple as that). I feel so weary of being the caretaker of relationships - and I feel very unappreciated.

and just to say Footlong, I do appreciate your 'detached' posts. In the end I do not want to do anything to undermine my rights or relationship with my children and your cool advice is welcomed. It pays to be in knowledge of how things wld probably pan out from a legal POV

sorry again for hijacking but silvery fox i am really concerned - you have mentioned ( and i am paraphrasing) being scared that your husband is extremely big and doesn't know his strength and things being grim and i strongly suspect violence. if this is the case speak it out - even just here - because if this is the case then then whole situation is different than what you have described so far -

Just sticking with silveryfox again - I agree that if violence is an issue then that's a very different situation and makes more sense to get help (Women's aid) and then get away.

However, if it's not an issue, then surely just leaving and taking your child with you is not a good move, in terms of future litigation? Perhaps Footlong can advise, but I can just imagine that if your DH took your child and left, it would look hugely reprehensible. I can see he's being very unreasonable, but you have to raise things to an official level so that the situation can't be twisted in future to make you look bad.

Sorry, just realised silvery has a whole other thread going. Will butt out of here. Hope you find your way out piknmix.

From CAB advice website..

The court will grant a divorce if you or your partner can show that the marriage no longer exists on a permanent basis. Legally, this is called an irretrievable breakdown of the marriage. For a marriage to have irretrievably broken down, one of the following things must be proved:
adultery
your partner has behaved unreasonably
your partner deserted you at least two years ago
you've lived apart for at least two years if you both agree to the divorce
you've lived apart for at least five years if one of you doesn?t agree to the divorce

which is why Im going 4 separation n not divorce yet - I'm not sure if relational passivity on his part is defined as 'unreasonable behaviour'. Of course I think it is - but legally it may not be

The good news is that the allegations in a behaviour petition do not have to be all that serious. It has been said that a competent lawyer would be able to draft that sort of petition in the day-to-day circumstances of any marriage.

And the test is not whether most people would think the behaviour unreasonable ? what matters is the effect that it has on the person who is petitioning for divorce. In the past, divorces have been granted to a man who objected to his wife cooking fish for her cats before she would cook his dinner, for example, and to a woman married to a diy enthusiast who removed the door of the bathroom in the course of some project and then neglected to replace it for months.

From Inside Divorce ... and every other divorce website says the same.

So did you just want a whinge?

Because he is bullying and intimidating and abusing his wife

And this is a great example of what happens around here. Refusing to allow to yourself to be booted out of your home or seperated from your kids is not abuse or bullyng.

Lets just accept that these 2 people no longer get along and one of them wants to end an unhappy marriage. Without all the melodramatic man hating feminist crap.

pinmix - As someone said earlier, unreasonable behaviour is a very broad brush, I would not lose any sleep over thinking of a reason. It is easy. I appreciate your kind words on my advice. I am so pleased you are going to try and play it smart, you might struggle to maintain it.. but it will be worth it.

I was in this position for 1 year, we had separated but he refused to move out. Letters went back and forth between lawyers and he dithered about for months pushing me to the limit. My lawyer advised either change locks and force the issue or go to court. I felt both of these suggestions were unrealistic for me. So many friends told me to leave, seek womens aid accomodation etc but I was so frightened that he would take my ds from nursery and not return him. Eventually after months of hell he agreed to leave, sell his half of house to me because my lawyer backed him into a corner as he had run out of excuses. Was told not to leave and give up the house. That whole period was horrendous, I still feel sick thinking about it. Not divorced (cant afford it as he took all my money) but legally separated. Only advice would be get a lawyer, keep things separate at home (housework/food shopping etc)he may start to see you have moved on. Good luck.

Itsgraceagain, I find your dismissal tone of 'So did you just want a whinge?' offensive, and -tellingly - at odds with most of the supportive replies here. You are not in my position. I may not have accessed the range of divorce websites that you so obviously have. They does not make my feelings illigitimate. Wny would you post such a response to someone who feels very upset and despondent at how her life is going? I cannot even begin to understand your flippancy.

I was worried that you'd take such strong ofence, piknmix. I was also feeling irritated by - what seemed to me - your passive acceptance of your situation. Several people have suggested starting your divorce but you appear to have ignored them. You seemed to be thinking you need some grand reason for divorce. You don't. If you want him out of your life, then do what people do - divorce him.

I replied you post, immediately above mine, which said " I'm not sure if relational passivity on his part is defined as 'unreasonable behaviour'. " If you genuinely cared about it, you would have accessed atleast one divorce website, where you would have found your apparently flippant remark to be incorrect.

I have actually tried to help you but confess to limited sympathy for passive whiners. I'll stay out of your thread from now on. Good luck, and I hope some of my posts were useful in the end.

typos because I had something in the oven

yes. I do think that if you can not help matters in a constructive way you would be better off staying out of posts that are asking for help. We all come to mumsnet at different stages of marital separation and people need more time than perhaps you are prepared to give them so that they can work through a sad situation in their own time. Just because they may not do things as quickly as you might like them to doesn't render their request for help illegitimate. I am new to posting in this thread and am in need of support - not condemnation from people who have partisan views on how quickly a divorce should take to process