Can I, or should I try to, rescue my marriage

[stillinflux]

Had to name change as H discovered many previous threads and was not impressed - unsurprisingly.

Been married more than 18 years, together 22 and finding it difficult to remember when we were happy for longer than a month or so in one go. H now admits/recognises long periods of depression, and that he was withdrawn, etc and it was not my imagination that I was basically alone with the three kids.

Considered calling it a day around this time last year, and then met someone else who awakened all sorts of long dormant emotions and sensations. Very definitely an emotional affair, and no I'm not proud, but find it hard to accept that it was fundamentally wrong of me.

When I recognised the 'friendship' for what it was, I pulled back, but was difficult because we work together. H and I had around 10 Relate sessions around this time, but I was less than honest about the near miss.

Things seemed to be improving, we argue less and life is calmer, I have been honest about the EA, but I still cannot rejuvenate any sense of sexual attraction for H. This is really hurting him, I like him, enjoy his company, for the most part, but find it really difficult when it comes to sex or even saying I love him.

He's now talking about separation, because he cannot take the 'physical hurt' this causes him day after day.

I don't want to separate, but I'm not sure why, apart from the damage to the kids. Do I just not want the disruption, or am I instinctively clinging to something that I know at some level can get better?

Should I just let H go for sake, if not mine. Or is it possible to turn it round?

I recognise you too.

I would say listen carefully to what your H is saying. He is giving you permission to let him go. He is saying that he can't take the hurt any more.

Relate may help you to part without acrimony, but what ever you do, don't hang on to him because he was the one with the courage to end this, or any sense that you wanted this to be your decision.

What is needed here is a huge wind of change, because your efforts to resurrect feelings haven't been working for a long time.

If anything can be restored again in this marriage, you will need to see your H in a totally different light, because your physical attraction to him is entirely connected to the way you view him - and the respect in which he is held by you. If after you part, you do see him in a different light and find your respect and attraction returning for him, it will be for you both to decide whether you can try again.

However I cannot see any of this happening until you let him go and part kindly.

still, I hoped it wasn't you, to be honest. I've not been in touch because I've been away a lot. I'm sorry I haven't been there/here for you on email. Really sorry.

Please let us know how you get on at Relate (if you can bear to). Also, please be kind to yourself. You didn't get here alone - you know that, I hope? x

New poster speaking. This is an amazing and illuminating thread. I'm learning SO much which, as i'm in a similar position to some of you, is of huge benefit. Just posting so you all know that there are MNetters out there like me who read and learn. Scared, uncertain, unable to be objective, nobody in anything like a similar situation to confide in. Oddly comforting to know it's not just me!

origilante...would you like to tell us your story

it could help others too

and welcome to MN

Hi origilante

Welcome to the wonderful world of MN. I have made so much sense of a horrible three years by reading, posting and getting challenged.
Like others I have had to keep namechanging as my ExH likes to track me on here "to find out what you really think" but the experience has been affirming, supportive and ultimately saved my sanity.
Hope things work out for you too.
WAEFMT

Morning all.

Welcome Origilante, I hope MN helps you as much as it has me over the past year.

Belle, please don't worry, I appreciate that you bother to keep in touch at all, I can't be the most fun correspondent.

Relate was pretty much as I expected, unfortunately - a sort of public humiliation, which Im sure I deserve, as I said nothing that H hasn't heard before. But I do know it needs to be gone through. I suppose after the hour I thought there maybe a chance we could rescue the marriage. And we agreed to another series of sessions.

But then, when we got home and I read through this thread I was struck by WWIFN's post, and again by AF's earlier one. And now I don't know anymore.

The only place where WWIFN is not quite right is that I actually don't want it to be my decision, as with most of my marriage, I want him to stand up and make a major decision for us. He has decided he wants to stay and try and fix things, but I don't think its the one I would have made in his place, which feeds back into AF's respect point.

God this is such a mess. HTF did I get here?

Hi stillinflux,

I just wanted to drop in to your thread and see how you are? Also to say that that in my situation, things may be taking another direction, possibly. I won't repeat it all here obviously. But I felt that my previous reply may look a bit inappropriate in hindsight, but it's how I was feeling yesterday anyway.

I'll come back to re-read this thread later but in the meantime, I'm thinking of you , and yes, I often think HTF did this happen to me?! (I felt so crap this morning I gave a beggar some money to try and brighten their day and attempt to lift some of my guilt).

Hi Sadandrelieved

I was about to post on your DCs and separation thread, but realised I didn't really know what to say. I haven't really thought about that side of it yet, but I suspect it gets closer each day :(

I certainly didn't think your post was inappropriate at all - as you says it's always good to hear you're not some sort of freak and that others have experienced similar problems!

I hope your new direction is more positive and that you eventually find yourself where you want to be.

I just wish I could figure where I want to be at the end of all this

SIF I really sympathise, but as with any relationship crisis, I'm trying to get into your H's mindset here.

Some of this depends on what you have told him about your feelings and what he believes. If you have told him that you don't want sex with him and can't imagine ever wanting to, if you've told him that you're running on empty in terms of your feelings for him and that you don't respect him, then if he were posting here and telling us that his wife said all that, I imagine we would encourage him, for his own self-esteem, to take the difficult decision and call time on this himself.

How honest have you been with him about your feelings? You want him to make a decision, but is he in possession of all the facts? Because he loves you and wants to be loved in return, he might be bargaining away what might seem obvious to you (your contempt)and pretending it doesn't exist, or isn't as bad as it is.

You on the other hand, know all of this. You have all the necessary information to make a decision, so why are you ceding that power to him?

WWIFN I have told him that I don't at the moment want sex with him, that I am running on empty. But I honestly can't say I can never imagine having sex with him again.

And I'm still coming to terms with the AF's suggestion that I no longer respect him. I have never thought in those terms until last night. I still don't want to believe it's true of me.

I do see what you're saying, and had a similar thought when out walking the dog, that I'm expecting him to make a decision, when he is probably filtering out all the rest for his own well-being and is only hearing me say it could possibly work.

But that's what I believe, that it COULD work. Or am I trying to convince myself of that to save on the disruption and the damaging fallout? I just don't know.

still

I'm so sorry that I have no wise words to offer you. I think, really, you know where this will probably go. I just want you to be happy.

Could you have a think/write a list of what you think you need/want to be happy? Could you then see if there is any way that this could work in your relationship with DH?

I wish there were some sort of Jackie/Blue Jeans quiz where scoring mostly As, Bs or Cs could give you the answer.

Oh sod it, a big hug too. x

Thanks Belle.

A Jackie quiz is just what I need :) Oh for the days when things were that simple, although of course they never were while you were actually in it.

I have a sort of list, the trouble is H could/does fulfill most of it - being loved and cared for, security, career progress, happy kids, (not necessarily in that order) but yet I'm still not happy.

It's as if I logically know the first two to be true, but I don't get a real sense of it. For all his efforts I just don't feel cherished, the passion he says he still feels just doesn't seem to translate. Why is that?

And if we do separate most of that list will disappear at a stroke.

I crossed posted with the hug. I promise not tell anyone, if you hold just a little longer than you ought :o

LOL!

This goes back to something you said before about how your DH expresses himself or how that translates for you. I think you've got the crux (flux has the crux?) of the issue in that one sentence... Can you (or he) get to what doesn't feel real to you in his passion?

Ah Blue Jeans, Jackie (Cathy and Claire) and do you remember My Guy?

I have often imagined some of the relationship problems on this board as a photo story, or is that just me?

I felt it was more to do with wanting DH to make the decision so there is less guilt to feel. If he makes the choice, hopefully he'll be less inclined towards finger pointing later.

After we broke up, My exP told people I'd "used him financially" during the time we lived together - this despite our maintaining separate bank accounts and each paying into a separate account for joint living expenses. When I ended it, I signed over all our hard-earned equity to him because of that guilt ... not enough apparently. From what I can gather, his view is that because I knew I was unhappy but stayed anyway, my intention must've been to use him. The fact that I stayed because I loved him and was working my arse off in a vain attempt to save the relationship, doesn't register and is probably inconvenient when you're having a pity party. SIF, hopefully your DH won't feel this way, but I thought I'd add a note of caution.

stillinflux, thanks and don't worry about not posting on my thread, I didn't mind if no-one replied (although v.grateful that people have), I just needed to try and purge myself, if that's the right word.

I know what you mean with your sentence about 'saving on disruption and damaging fallout'. I think it dawned on me yesterday, that I simply don't have the heart to deal with that side of it right now, unless I HAVE to, I still don't know what's going to happen, but I think DH and I both feel it's too big a price to pay.

WWIFN it was just you but I'll be doing it from now on...

Hi SIL

If you want a Jackie quiz style book try
"Too good to leave too bad to stay" by Mira Kirschenbaum. It is easy to read and she promises if you answer each question you will come to a decision by the end. I did but I was scared to act on it for 3 months.

SIF - I have cowardly namechanged for this because I would be distraught if my DH saw it.

I think AF may have something with the respect thing because I am having similar issues at the moment. We have only been married 3 years and have a DS 2 and some months. Since having DS, something has changed but I'm not sure if it's me or him or both - I find his behaviour is becoming more and more juvenile and I get more and more irritated by having a toddler and a quasi-teenager living with me.
Because of this behaviour situation, I feel like I have little respect for my DH and I have troubles being intimate with him at any time.

Somewhere inside I do know I still love him and our marriage is not in trouble and will not break up (there are other factors that I cannot go into here without outing myself) - we are currently ttc another baby because it is what we both want but my God it's hard going through the sex times.

We are very open in our discussions and I do tell him that his juvenile behaviour affects my feelings for him and how can he expect me to fancy someone who behaves like a 15yo (in so many ways I can't tell you) but it never seems to sink right in so that we get a change in his behaviour. Thus I never stop being irritated with him (and I know that's my issue more than his) and so it goes on. I respect him in that I think he is very good at his job, he is a very loving father - but I feel that he is somewhat feckless on the responsibility side (see 15yo behaviour) and it colours my feelings for him.

I might be rambling now, repeating myself - but I just wanted to say that I think the respect thing is very much part of being able to fancy someone as your equal partner - and I don't want a teenager as my partner.

For you - your DH's illness might represent a dependence on you that you are not happy shouldering - he isn't your equal and you feel responsible for him too, and you don't want that - you want him to be your equal partner who shares the responsibility with you.

Does that make any sense to you?

Something on the more positive side - I have a friend who went through ups and downs in her relationship with her DH before they were ever married - and they went through a period of over a year where they were "just good friends" because she was convinced she didn't fancy him at all. Couldn't bring herself to the idea of being intimate with him in any way - and then one day, when he decided he'd had enough and stopped contacting her, something changed inside and she realised she did still want him (and they then went on to get married and still are married some 10 years later). So it is possible to change back - you just need to find the key.

Would you have more respect for your husband, SIF, if he just said "Right, I have had enough of this, just stop feeling sorry for me, I am taking control now and I want you out of my life!"

?

Probably AF. 10 weeks of Relate and I didn't get this far, one word from you and it all becomes, if not glaringly obvious, at least a little clearer. I hate that you're so wise, and Im such a fuckwit

And thank you too Hiding. There have been many occasions over the years where I have felt I needed to be the senior partner, the one holding it all together and although I have resented that at the time, it hadn't occurred to me that it had eroded away respect.

Talking to H as I have this afternoon about that sense of none of his passion, concern etc reaching me, and he says he's always thought that deep down I don't believe I'm worthy of such love. But as he was saying it, it struck me horribly, what 'if I don't think you're worthy of offering me such love'.

It's such a nasty thing to think of anyone, let alone someone Ive spent 22 years of my life with. While at the same time transferring my thoughts, if not my deeds, to some bloke, who I know has previous betrayals under his belt and offers me very little but a few cheap thrills, every now and then, when our real lives don't get in the way. :(

So now I have to ask is respect redeemable? When did I lose it?

you are not a fuckwit

Well on that I think you are very definitely wrong AF, just for a change, mind