A lucky escape...regular twat or something more sinister?

[relieved]

Hi,

Just looking for some opinions, as involvement with a man has recently finished (got back with his ex). I do of course miss him and feel rubbish at the moment (though I know this will pass...I hope it will), but I do wonder if I will look back and realise that I have had a lucky escape, as I feel that there's something not quite right that I can't put my finger on. I loved him anyway but can't help but wonder if that was the major thing we had in common - I loved him, he loved himself too.

There is lots I do miss about him, but a few characteristics I'm not exactly sorry to see the back of.

• lack of empathy towards other people - as if it was only his feelings that mattered. He seemed to enjoy inflicting pain on other people, e.g. me.
• very flirty, which never really bothered me on a serious level, I tended to think of it as an act but if we were in a restaurant and I so much looked at the waiter, he would fly into a rage.
• in the beginning, he was charming and complimented my figure, but towards the end would insult my appearance - he repeatedly told me I needed my mouth fixing, that I had 'shit tits', that my shoes were horrible (which they weren't, and that really hurt!). I wasn't 'perfect looking' so I didn't deserve him. Reading this, I see how disrespectful he was to me actually, and strange as it sounds either a) it didn't hurt me or b) I didn'y care what he said to me.
• obsessed with being attractive - on the one hand would moan that he was unattractive, but on the other, would ask if girls he met fancied him and then say to me 'i am very good looking, aren't I?'.
• obsessed with sex - will openly say to colleagues and mutual friends that he 'needs to have sex'.

-sex that was all about him. In the beginning, I was satisfied, but he soon lost interest in pleasing me, the whole thing revolved around him, him receiving oral sex or him being masturbated by me or himself. He would ask me to pleasure myself, but it seemed he wanted me to do it over him if you see what I mean. It was never 'making love' either, and always, always had to involve me being dressed up. Actual intercourse fairly infrequent.

• lying about sexual conquests. I know two girls through friends he claimed to have had sex with, and they say they never slept with him.
• constant need for attention and to have his needs pandered to. Seemed to dislike being on his own actually, and would get very angry if I made plans that didnt involve him.
• very impulsive. Exciting at first, but quite tiring ultimately. Always seemed to find it difficult to make long term arrangements and would behave without thinking of the implications, e.g. he has backed out of work commitments and burned bridges with clients at work.
• excessive alcohol consumption
• felt entitled to my money
• at work, gets jealous of other people's status, though he doesn't work hard himself
• Prone to arguments with people that criticise him

I probably sound like the woman scorned and I should stress that I did have fun with him, he was very charming and funny to be around when things were good, very clever conversation, cultured, educated etc, we went on loads of dates, so it was never dull. I was completely into him, but there were things he would do or say that I didn't like, and I couldn't see it ending well, yet didn't have the strength to tell him to piss off either. I also really wanted to look after him and love him 'better' as it were.

So should I be weeping into my pillow or breathing a sigh of relief?

math, we are not in contact and I haven't heard from him. He is blocked from my fb.

AF, I do feel that this is it this time. Partly because of how I was with him when we last spoke. I was visibly angry, which never normally happens and shouted at him, told him what I thought of him and I can't see that washing well - I'm supposed to be all adoring of him.

He has rebounded between us before first it was me, then her, then me, now her. She ensures he keeps a distance from me (so he says). I don't think she'll be waking up anytime soon, I think she's as deluded as I have been, with the added complication that she sees me as the 'enemy' - she has tried phoning me before - basically I think he wants us fighting over him, but I have always refused to participate directly, so that should give me the time to build up my strength.

I've always known he was a bit of a twat, but no, I don't think I'd realised quite what a messed up, manipulative, narcissistic tosser he was.

Cakeandroses - tell me about him. A mutual friend of ours always says you couldn't make him up! You'd have to have one hell of an imagination.

Am going to look at the self esteem thread to see if I can identify my issues, instead of merely analysing his.

Lucky lucky escape - what a nasty fellow.

relieved - your last sentence sounds like the best way ahead. the only reason to even remember him is to make sure you never entertain someone so damaged and damaging ever again. Other than that, make YOU your focus - he's wasted enough of your time and energy.

Relieved, google Sociopath symptoms. Then re-read your opening post.

here is one site which came up
www.lovefraud.com/01_whatsaSociopath/key_symptoms_sociopath.html

Lucky escape indeed...

oops.

www.lovefraud.com/01_whatsaSociopath/key_symptoms_sociopath.html

Crikey epicfail. I have spent the morning missing him so much that it aches...feel better for reading that in a way. That described him to a T - is it a real thing?

How could I have fallen so hard for someone with those characteristics?

What impressed me about your posts, relieved, is that you didn't get upset when you knew he was targeting things that you knew weren't true. It's not easy to take a step back and you have managed to do that. Good on you. He sounds like a complete chancre.

Relieved, one of my dearest friends - a smart, intelligent, divorced, beautiful woman in her 40s, fell for a sociopath. He really turned on the charm in the first six months of their relationship. However after five years with him she had gone from being a strong, happy, confident woman to a clinically depressed, suicidal shadow of her old self. It wasnt until, in desperation, she went into therapy and her psychiatrist discussed with her the definition of a sociopath that she could begin to see the way she had been played and manipulated by her partner's mind games.

He controlled what she ate, what she wore, who she saw, where she went, what she read. He had grand schemes and funded them with her money (to an extent - luckily she baulked at handing everything over to him, despite his continuous emotional blackmail and intimidating attempts to make her to do so).

She was frightened for her life, not because he was physically abusive but because of his complete lack of empathy and his clever psychological intimidation. I do believe he was (and is) a person capable of great evil.

She took a long while to recover from the depths of low self esteem and depression he had taken her to. She kept going back to that definition of sociopathy to remind herself that he was not feeling any of her pain - because he was completely incapable of it.

Even afer she managed to leave him for the (seemd to me) millionth, but final time, it was months and months beforee I saw my old friend really return to the woman she was before he came into her life. He had such a hold over her I worried myself sick she would go back yet again.

Luckily, after a year or so she met a new man and they have been together and very happy for about 4 years now. He is a controlling person too in many ways - but passionate and genuine with it!

AF, I do feel that this is it this time. Partly because of how I was with him when we last spoke. I was visibly angry, which never normally happens and shouted at him, told him what I thought of him and I can't see that washing well - I'm supposed to be all adoring of him.

I don't mean to hound you, but this statement makes me think that you are still leaving the ball in his court, and are vulnerable to him crooking his finger at you again.

Like someone else said upthread, this is very passive behaviour and doesn't bode well for staying strong. I am sorry if you think I am picking at you, but couldn't leave that unchallenged. x

Hmm Mervynne, I'm not quite sure quite how I have managed to keep the belief in things I know to be true, but that he has tried to undermine. I shall take some strength from that. Thank you.

epicfail, thank you for sharing your friend's story, I'm sorry to hear of it but glad she has found happiness now, very well deserved.

AF, I don't think you are hounding me at all and I suppose reading it back, it does sound very passive. I'm banking on a combination of things to keep him at bay - me staying strong and disinterest on his part at this moment in time...I need challenging and I need to stay strong!

you need to develop the disinterest in him

not rely on him to do it

if you can't make it real yet...fake it, and it will come x

Does it help you to laugh at him? I know a man who is probably a sociopath of some sort. He worked with a lot of people I know (he was a friend of ours for a time).

They kept up a campaign of ridicule amongst themselves and were able together to spot the delusions and targeted bullying and intimidation. It didn't make it easier to be around him (they were more or less stuck with him because of the area they worked in) but it did help to laugh at him A LOT, and a by-product of that was that when he turned on the charm (he was excellent at that) they didn't have to keep questioning themselves as to whether or not they'd misjudged him.

(He got his come-uppance is a very public way. The Schadenfreude was exquisite.)

You are right AF. Inside, my interest comes and goes but I act disinterested. When I was talking about me playing games, this is one of the things I have tended to do - acted as if I am not bothered (either because I don't want him to know I'm upset or because I don't want him knowing he has me where he wants me). Of course, reading that back, it's a pointless exercise as he is very good at reading me, and I suppose when I've been sat in front of him, my face probably says it all.

Mervynne, I'm not sure about laughing yet - it does add up, but at the same time, feels a bit convenient for me ('ooh I'm a woman scorned, he's not just a twat, he has a personality disorder'). A while ago, I was at that stage, and when I found out about him trying it on with a very senior member of staff who wouldn't give him the time of day, I found that hilarious and my perspective of him changed. I was also enlightened as to what some other women think of him - because I'm so deluded, I had always assumed everyone found him gorgeous and charming. Not so. But then somehow ended up back here. Oh well, hopefully I'll get back to seeing him for what he really is, and then some.

If I was not happily married etc etc I would rent myself out (not in a pimping sort of way -probably do it for free as a public service) to act as a benchmark for what is normal behaviour in the male species. I am sure I have some inadequacies but when put side by side with this guy (and many others mentioned on this site)I am an Angel!

ps run as quick as you can and don't look back.

Relieved: don't be too hard on yourself. People probably did at one point find him gorgeous and charming - or at least, enough people will have done. You aren't the only person who's got to know him and decided he's not quite right, I can almost guarantee it.

Deluded is too harsh a word to describe yourself. We're brought up to give people the benefit of the doubt, to brush away minor transgressions with kindness and understanding, and we expect the same in return. Whether or not that's successful depends on the other person being "normal" for want of a better word. When there is something amiss, it takes longer to work out what's going on.

I do understand about not wanting to label him (and yourself as well). IME when someone has something "wrong" with their psychological make-up, things happen that make you go "EH??" in complete incomprehension (facts and stories that make no sense whatsoever, that sort of thing), whereas unpleasant people are kind of obviously unpleasant. I think you're right not to shrug and go 'oh he was a psychopath - otoh, at this point it doesn't matter because you are WELL RID! Onwards and upwards

no, chippy, you are just an ordinary bloke

don't flatter yourself

My ex was similar to yours, OP, admittedly not quite as much of a psycho although it was still bad enough for me at the time!

He was a nasty bully, one of those 'always have to be right' types, and after we split up a couple of my female friends told me that on occasions we'd all been out together he had made them feel belittled or intimidated. One of my friends told me that she'd been having a conversation with him about something (she couldn't remember what) but that he'd taken an opposing stance to hers even though she knew she was right in what she was saying. The conversation petered out with the interruption of other people into the group and my friend went into the kitchen to get another drink. She told me that he made an excuse to come into the kitchen after her and corner her so that he could continue trying to convince her of his point. She said she didn?t mention it to me at the time because to all other intents and purposes he and I seemed like a good couple and she thought maybe she was somehow in the wrong and couldn?t see it.

I was utterly mortified that he?d made her feel intimidated and doubt herself like that. Somehow I?m not as angry that he did it to me for years as I am about the fact that he did that to one of my closest friends once. If there were any residual ?feelings? left for him in my heart at all, they have completely gone now. I actually feel revulsion at the thought of having been with such a prize bellend.

I really hope you can start seeing your situation from a similar perspective. Like you, my ex and I were on and off for ages but now I know that I will 100% never ever fall for his creepy bullshit again.

No, I think "twat" covers it.
Has anyone asked if he has any redeeming features?
Does anyone care?
OP, you're well off out of this one.

relieved: quite shaken by your post. Have been in a very similar situation and now out of it thank God. What stuns me is how I could have been in love with such a man? I am confident and pretty self-assured, although have my moments of self-doubt as does everyone.

You've listed all his bad points which make him sound terrible, but I suspect he did a very good job of charming you too, as did my man. I am now feeling so angry at how he has treated me and angry that I put up with it for so long. But I was so stupidly besotted, I would try and excuse his behaviour.

Also feeling sad that it is over, but determined not to go back ever. It's been one of the best and worst experiences I've had. I suspect the best bits were all in my imagaination...my own little fantasy but I did enjoy those. I suspect he will forget me in a heartbeat although we have been together for quite a while.

You sound very strong. I am hoping there are some nice men out there, but not feeling in the mood for meeting anyone at the moment.

'math, we are not in contact and I haven't heard from him. He is blocked from my fb.'

Not in contact because you haven't heard from him, or because you are now out of his reach with a new phone number? Don't wait for his calls or his texting to start before you start building your barricades.

I think what some people are getting at here, relieved, is the danger of feeling you have to somehow beat him. Have you ever thought of him as a sparring partner? Most Narcissists and sociopaths choose high-status, attractive, independent & feisty partners. Mainly for what we add to their status, and because they want to 'absorb' our advantages. A further attraction is the sense of enhanced power they get from subjugating us; robbing the partner of the very qualities that singled them out. It is very stupid to view this as a challenge.

OMG, Grace, yes -- if there's one thing you'll never get with a narcissist or a sociopath, it's the last word.

VERY lucky escape

Am at 'shit tits'

OMFG

Well rid xx

If he does try to get back with you after it's over, that's quite insulting. It means he doesn't believe you mean what you say, and that his decision to be with you is more important than your decision not to be with him. It's not flattering that he wants to be with you, even, as you've never really been higher than third most important in his life (after himself and his on/off ex). If you can't be strong, at least be stubborn, and refuse to be played for a sucker!

I could understand it perhaps if the sex was any good...