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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How does knowing the reasons for an affair help?

47 replies

catwalker · 16/09/2010 09:42

Ange8's thread has touched a nerve with me - especially some of the advice from WWIFN and Countingto10. But I didn't want to hijack her thread so am starting a new one.

Briefly, a couple of years ago my dh had a legitimate reason to be in touch occasionally by email/text with another woman but at some point the texts crossed the line and became sexual (not emotional) in nature. This culminated in sex on one occasion. I only found out about it at the start of the year.

I love my husband very much. We have been together for nearly 18 years and I would never ever ever have thought he would do something like this. He has very high standards, a strong sense of right and wrong and I felt we had a good relationship, notwithstanding the stresses of both working and raising a family.

I have followed the advice on here, especially that from WWIFN - read the Shirley Glass book, had some counselling and talked for hours and hours with my dh. We had a particularly useful and surprisingly long session with a locum at our local surgery and she said that there were always at least 5 reasons why these things happened - never just one. We talked about what these might be. We've also discussed with each other and counsellors what these reasons might be. Basically, they seem to be:

Time of life - getting old
Wanting to recapture the feelings of excitement experienced in youth
Body giving out
Overlooked at work for a much-wanted job (happened 3 years earlier but apparently it prompted feelings of low-esteem which lasted a long time)
Bored at work
Enjoying the flattery and attention at a point where he felt low self-esteem
Wanting to be liked (ie not wanting to hurt the ow's feelings)
Wanting to be admired because his mother gave him low self-esteem
Being a bit of a rescuer (she is clearly in an unhappy marriage)
Had no strong feelings for the ow but was seduced by the fantasy of a make believe relationship and when it hit the cold light of day during the first sexual encounter, he was horrified at what he'd done.

Now, objectively these make sense. However, I can't think of any reasons which would make me jeopardise my marriage and children's happiness. I know he didn't expect to be found out, but I would never have been unfaithful because I know it would cause irreparable damage to my relationship with him - even if he didn't know what I'd done. Also, many of the above reasons could apply to me - some more so. I know nobody was pushing me to have no strings sex on a plate so it's easy to say I wouldn't have taken up the offer. But I honestly, one hundred per cent don't believe I would. So actually knowing the reasons doesn't help me understand why someone who claims to love me with all his heart - and always to have done so - could do this thing, even with the above list of reasons?

And as long as I don't understand I know I am going to keep going back over everything again and again trying to find a way of understanding it. I also feel I can't trust him - not particularly to do the same thing again, but that I can't trust him to love me as much as I want him to.

Most of the time we are getting on really well and have rediscovered our relationship. But the slightest thing can suddenly plunge me into the depths of despair again. The need to keep going back over things is taking its toll on both of us and we are both exhausted. Our last 'discussion' ended with him saying that the fact that I am not being capable of being unfaithful to someone I love doesn't mean that other people aren't.

Sorry, I've rambled. My problem is I know the reasons for my husband's affair, but I don't understand how they were enough to enable him to allow himself to do it? I'd welcome any thoughts from anyone who understands what I'm getting at in a very inarticulate way!

OP posts:
Bast · 16/09/2010 10:24

I understand you absolutely.

I came to realise I just wasn't capable of understanding - I don't have it in me to behave in such a way so the thought processes which might allow me understanding of that behaviour are blocked....

Someone at the door, be back later x

LoveBeing · 16/09/2010 10:26

I think looking bakc is different to being in the middle of something/all those things. A bit like being depressed and not knowing it, but afterwards you might be able to see where/when it happened iyswim?

Bast · 16/09/2010 11:16

...sorry, I don't know if I can offer any help but wanted you to know you aren't alone.

The thing is, it may be more productive to work on finding a way to accept that you might never fully understand? Some things just are beyond comprehension and I hate to think of you suffering so deeply in an effort to grasp something which might always remain out of reach.

Are you still in counselling? If not, please consider going back. If your H has given you all of the answers that he genuinely can then that particular well has run dry and your healing now has to come from within.

...and in answer to your heading question "How does knowing the reasons for an affair help?" IMO, it only does to a certain extent. They are as much excuses as reasons because at the end of the day, some people just never would.

ange8 · 16/09/2010 11:35

Hi catwalker. As you say, you and I seem to have some things in common - not least our confused states! I really related to your comment: "And as long as I don't understand I know I am going to keep going back over everything again and again trying to find a way of understanding it. I also feel I can't trust him - not particularly to do the same thing again, but that I can't trust him to love me as much as I want him to."

We too have a list of reasons/excuses - but I think I am trying to go a bit behind them, to find out what emotional needs my partner had that were not being filled. For example, my partner also had low self-esteem and enjoyed the flattery. To my mind, that is not a real reason - what is the root cause of that feeling? Why does he feel so low about himself, and how does the flattery of someone who barely knows you really help?

So, I guess I'm not looking for the reasons for the affair, but for the reasons behind my partner's emotions and behaviour that led to the affair. I think if we can get to that, we will not just have an understanding but also the basis for real change. Does that make any sense?

catwalker · 16/09/2010 11:54

Thanks for everyone's comments. Ange8 - I see what you are getting at. I know at least some of the reasons why my dh's self-esteem was low. He felt he was starting to lose it physically (always been very good at sport). He is hugely intelligent and does a high-powered job but has few academic qualifications; his insecurity about this was reinforced when he didn't get a job everyone said had his name on it. His mother was very critical of him when he was a child and he felt he was a disappointment to her. At the time of his affair he was doing something outside of work which earned him a lot of admiration and respect from other people - including the ow. I think he was enjoying this immensely and the ow was giving him this admiration in buckets.

But as I keep saying to him, I've had 4 pregnancies so I'm rather disappointed in my body these days. I might have some academic qualifications but no career to speak of - he at least has demonstrated his ability and has had a largely very successful career. I have all sorts of hang ups and insecurities - a million more since I found out about his affair - but I don't think anyone could flatter me into bed...

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 16/09/2010 12:29

One of the things that we all do in this situation is to project our responses on to our spouse. The shock and horror is that we had thought we were on the same page - and would behave exactly the same in similar circumstances.

While both you and I catwalker can say that in the same circumstances, we really don't think we would have accepted such an offer, unless it happened at that time when we were feeling the same things as our Hs, we really can't know. But in a way, it doesn't matter, because the challenge is to ensure that you are now both on the same page and have absolutely identical responses to the offer of infidelity.

I do think it is terribly important to search for the meaning of an affair. You will have seen only this morning and in recent days, how flawed are the notions, about why affairs happen.

You are at least able to say with absolute conviction, that your H's affair was all about him and his responses. It had absolutely nothing to do with any unhappiness in your marriage or anything lacking in you. It was something lacking in your H, for a time, that caused this.

It is even more important that your H understands why he did this, to know his triggers and ensure that he eradicates the flaws in his character that led him to respond in the way he did.

So that on another occasion, when he is going to feel even older and lacking in potential - and perhaps not needed, he will talk to you about it and show that vulnerability, instead of accepting flattery from someone whose opinion is worthless.

That he has in the past been a sucker for a damsel in distress - and the next time one comes calling, he will suggest she gets therapy or help from someone else.

One of the major changes that happened to my H in the wake of his affair was his realisation that nothing was more important to him than our marriage. He changed his whole way of thinking about work and the approval of people who weren't truly important to him. Work to him now is just a means of making money; he works to live.

He now couldn't care less about being defined by a career, because he realised that it's nowhere near as important as his marriage and family. He works hard and is respected and liked by his staff, colleagues and managers, but all that is a bonus and isn't what defines him.

He has also said that if he gets flattery and attention from anyone else, it is a nice feeling, but the only attention worth having is what he gets from me. Giving so much more to our relationship and the family generally is what makes him happiest now. He regrets bitterly that for a time, the false compliments of an unworthy and damaged person
were so valuable.

I wonder then catwalker what changes has he made to his thinking? How different is he now to the man he was in 2007/8? What defines him now and how would he behave differently now, in similar circumstances?

The questions you are posing now are all entirely normal incidentally and I'm glad you're back posting for help. I bet you look back now at some of your H's beliefs about the necessity to talk about this, with considerable bemusement. This goes on for so much longer than an unfaithful person ever thinks it will.

ange8 · 16/09/2010 12:30

I wonder though whether a person's usual behaviour 'preference' influences what they might do in a particular bad situation. I am thinking, for example, of the Myers Briggs character types of introvert and extrovert. So, I am intoverted, and I know that when I feel that everything is getting on top of me and my self esteem is low, I get depressed, let the feelings fester, and occasionally act very passive-agressively, trying to guilt-trip the 'wrongdoer'. But some more extroverted person might lash out at those around them, or try to 'fix' the wrong thing by frantic activity.

I wonder if the high-achieving 'doers' of this world are perhaps more susceptible to seeing activity (even of the most inappropriate kind) as a possible cure for their malaise, rather than sitting home and exmaining their navel as I might do?

catwalker · 16/09/2010 13:28

WWIFN - he says he's not the person he was 2 years ago - that person doesn't exist any more. He says he wasn't thinking properly then and he would never make that mistake again. But to me it's not about 'making a mistake' or 'doing the wrong thing', it's about 'wanting' to have sex with someone who means not very much to you more than 'wanting' to remain loyal to someone you share your life with; someone you claim to love.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 16/09/2010 13:48

Yes, I understand that very well catwalker - and empathise. You are finding it impossible to understand why his fidelity and loyalty wasn't more important than having sex with someone who meant nothing. You perhaps are at the stage where you cannot comprehend that someone who professed beforehand (and since) to cherish their fidelity, could have given it away so easily?

I wonder whether at the time, he thought he might be able to "live with" his infidelity, rather better than he imagined? Does he ever say that in the weeks leading up to this, he wondered whether he would be able to go through with it - and that in addition to the expected feelings of excitement and adrenaline, there was something about challenging himself too? And not wanting to "lose face" with the OW and seem like a wuss for backing out? And that when he came home from the assignation and saw you for the first time, he was astonished that the world hadn't collapsed and there wasn't something that told you instantly that he had been unfaithful?

It would be interesting to hear how he rationalised this affair afterwards. He may have been certain that it was an experience not to be repeated, but I wonder did it change his view on his own ability to be unfaithful? Did he rationalise it that "these things happen, they don't have to wreck a person's life and as long as catwalker never finds out, it doesn't have to be a damaging and hurtful experience."

I also think you're at the stage where you are fairly certain that this would not happen again, but it almost doesn't matter, because it's what he's done in the past that you cannot understand or forgive. Keep talking and posting. And don't be afraid to tell me if I've got this wrong either.

abedelia · 16/09/2010 13:57

Funny wwifn - in my H's case he said that when they were finally in the room together he did think about backing out but 'he knew what she expected' and it was too late to change. I always thought this was a load of old crap to try and inject some morality into what he did, but you may have shed some light on something for me.

PS - in his case, he did crumble as soon as he saw me (he looked like he'd stepped in from committing murder) and his behaviour allowed me to put two and two together somehow and challenge him. Then he left the evidence lying about and I found it...

catwalker · 16/09/2010 15:03

wwifn - I think you are right about him thinking he could live with his infidelity. It sounds bizarre but almost all their 'affair' was carried out by text or rather 'sexting' as I believe it's called. Most of the time they saw each other there were other people (including me and our kids) around so they behaved normally. Apart from one meeting alone where he apparently resisted her advances (hmmm) the only other time they were alone together was when he finally agreed to meet her for sex. I think he saw the sexting as a harmless fantasy world - something he could indulge in without anyone knowing and something which he didn't think could hurt me. Because he had no strong feelings of guilt over that (he describes it as a bit of a joke and he didn't mean most of the things he said - hmmm again)I suspect he thought he wouldn't feel any guiltier actually doing the deed. Of course reality and fantasy are poles apart ....

He says he resisted her advances for a while, but a set of circumstances arose where it was possible and he gave in. I think he did think that it was possible to live with infidelity. He works with people who have affairs, people he respects. One in particular told him that, any man, when it was offered to him on a plate, would have done the same thing. He clung onto that for a while as evidence that his behaviour was normal.

He also keeps saying that the past doesn't matter, it's our future together that is important. But I need to be able to deal with the past. When I put what he did out of my head I see a loving and fantastic man. When it comes into my head I see someone who doesn't love me enough to be loyal to me.

Abedelia - interestingly, my dh said that, when he was waiting for the ow to arrive he felt sick and hoped she wouldn't turn up. I can't understand why, if he felt like that, he didn't just tell her he wasn't going to go through with it. But he says he felt he'd committed to a course of action and had to see it through. He says the sex was awful and he just went through the motions and then pretended to fall asleep so he didn't have to engage with her. I don't get that at all. Nobody was holding a gun to his head. And if it was about not wanting to disappoint the ow, why on earth does that matter?

OP posts:
IseeGraceAhead · 16/09/2010 15:27

I suspect the underlying reason - at very bottom - is what you said about his mother. This type of 'core' insecurity / need for approval is very, very different from the type of insecurity you might feel about your body after having 4 children. If you are fortunate to have grown up with a sense of being inherently worthwhile, it's hard to understand the inner values of a person who has only ever known conditional love and feels, on a very deep level, unworthy.

I'm not addressing your own feelings here, as you're already getting replies from some of MN's finest. What I'm driving at is that you cannot fix this 'hole' in DH's emotional well-being (as he is not a baby and your are not his mother) so give up any idea of trying. Simply understanding this may be enough for you. Or you may need for DH to understand it better himself. Depending on your funds and other considerations, you might want to consider finding individual therapists, so you can learn more about yourselves and each other on simultaneous (not parallel) paths.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 16/09/2010 15:50

Well that makes three of them then. 3 men, all different, none of whom knew another, remember hoping that something extraneous would happen that could prevent the assignation. It's rooted in not taking responsibility for the affair and is I suspect, borne out of some sexual politics about not wanting to seem lame and fearful to the OW - and to escape the derision of a woman who might have lashed out in scorn at the very notion that a man would turn down the offer of "free sex".

What that means is that amongst all the other accepted emotions such as desire and lust, it was at that time, more important to them that they weren't derided by someone, than it was to preserve their fidelity.

The bit about the colleague normalising it for him catwalker is interesting too - because that also goes right back to sexual politics about a man never being expected to say "no".

This has perhaps given you an insight into some sexist notions that may have been previously unacknowledged in your relationship and go to the heart of what it is to be a real man. We had some interesting discussions here about what really defines masculinity - and the messages we had both absorbed about male and female responses to infidelity.

But one of our most interesting conversations was about the fact that I had learned not to fear derision from people if I felt something was wrong, even if I was the lone voice, whereas my H had always shied away from departing from the herd and expressing a contrary view. It's all part of the same thing you see - and part of him regaining my respect was to ensure that he started to stand up for what he believed in - and told people what he thought. What we are talking about is moral courage.

He has been pleasantly surprised by how much more respect he's gained after a few such situations over the past 2 years. He was a lone voice in condemning a tolerated, but unethical practice at work and on many occasions now, has roundly condemned people who were being cheerfully unfaithful to their spouses, in the midst of much male back-slapping and cock-waving by people he had formerly respected.

catwalker · 16/09/2010 16:14

The ow apparently did tease my dh about not being a 'red-blooded male' etc so I guess there was an element of wanting to avoid derision. But my god that sounds so pathetic - to do something so horrendous to avoid being derided by a non-entity.

One of the key ways in which he has changed in the past few months is to speak his mind. He has always made me feel (unintentionally) that I don't have enough self control as I will often make it clear to people what I think (not necessarily in an adult way)whereas he has always taken an extremely non-confrontational and confrontational approach. Probably not helped by being married to someone as emotional and volatile as me. A few months ago we had a bit of a problem, which had been simmering for a long time, with one of our children who we both felt was being treated unfairly by someone. My son decided to speak up about this a few months ago and, being present I supported him. I thought my dh would be appalled but it actually prompted him to speak to and write to the person concerned to reinforce and support what we had both said. He expressed his views to this person in a very well argued, polite but forceful way. He has also taken a much more robust approach at work and not allowed colleagues to continue to take advantage of his good nature. So that is one way in which the affair has made him change.

He also says it's a huge load off his mind and he hated living with the secret.

It takes a lot for him to lose his temper and I have rarely seen it. He claims this is because on occasions, when he has lost it, he has gone completely over the top. I suspect there must be consequences to keeping a lid on your emotions like this and perhaps it enabled him to keep a lid on other emotions such as guilt.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 16/09/2010 16:30

Good and yes it was pathetic. I deleted the word "pathetic" from my earlier post, because I wasn't sure it would help, but the point is, I suppose, does your H admit this particular aspect of his behaviour? That he was in the end, more concerned about being seen as a "red-blooded male" by this disgrace to feminism, than he was about doing the right thing?

So pleased you are seeing evidence of change and moral courage. I decided that this was so important to me. I realised that I had always respected my H less for his dislike of confrontations and his fear of unpopularity and it was one of many areas that I now wasn't prepared to compromise on. And my H has found that people like him more now, not less, because they know his moral compass and where they stand with him.

Strangely enough though, just prior to the affair, I had showered him with positive boosts about how he had dealt with a tricky staff issue and done the right thing, in the face of lots of pressure to turn a blind eye. But these habits take time to unlearn and unfortunately that courage still hadn't trickled into his personal life...

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 16/09/2010 19:17

This might not help WRT your situation catwalker but I wonder if there's a wider discussion worth having about the gender politics I mentioned earlier?

It is evident from this thread alone that some people still believe that no man could ever be expected to refuse no-strings sex, at a time when far more women are offering just that. Does that therefore lead to an increase in infidelity, I wonder? Was the prospect of the OW falling in love and making demands, a bigger deterrent to male infidelity in years gone by, because of the greater risk of discovery?

Hence we've got men growing up and getting married in a society that still has an expectation that they won't say "no" to a low-risk opportunity.

I wonder whether one of the reasons we cannot empathise with their lack of integrity, is because if a man offered us a similar affair, there would be no expectation whatsoever that we would say "yes"?

No OM deriding us for our lack of femininity, no bewilderment from other females that we were mad to turn down such an opportunity? In fact no peer pressure or conditioning whatsoever that normalises infidelity in women.

Then we've got the whole subject of female infidelity that has raised its head again on these boards in recent days. It seems to be a widespread belief that women only have affairs if their marriage is unhappy, as opposed to rather earthier reasons which might be that they simply fancied sex with a new partner.

This is even more complex, because rather than take responsibility for their sexual behaviour, many women seem to convince themselves that they were unhappy and so they confuse lust with love, because that serves to normalise and justify their bad behaviour and makes victims of them.

I think we're also seeing a generation of younger men who, having been brought up in an emancipated society, are also too embarrassed to admit that their affairs are the lure of a new experience. So they convince themselves that they must be in love with the affair partner and therefore end their current relationship.

Just musing, not sure if it helps at all, but it did help me to compare society's expectations of men and women in monogamous relationships and why our responses to an offer of infidelity might differ. I don't think it's the whole story by any means and I do think that someone's moral code, regardless of gender, is crucial to the ability to say "no", even when tempted.

TheSadTruth · 16/09/2010 20:12

What I don't get is all the cheated people on this website who come on and say there DH's have had affairs and either there was no sex or it happened once like seriously talk about naive

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 16/09/2010 20:55

Oh do go away and come back when you can use the word "like" appropriately,"TheSadTruth". Angry

AnyFucker · 16/09/2010 21:33

TheSadTruth, your pathetic argument would carry a little bit more weight if it was even half-way intelligible

IseeGraceAhead · 16/09/2010 21:58

According to most recently-published surveys, the majority of men and women in LTRs are faithful ... but it's a slim majority, in both cases. Call it half. I think we're in a time of immense change, in many ways. Social expectations and sexual morals are very much in flux.

It was common, in my mother's generation, to assume that all men were inherently promiscuous; women were inherently faithful; women should both guard and be grateful for their husbands' fidelity. My own generation (in my own observation) questions this, but our expectations are still coloured by the older attitudes. Today's 25-year-olds, I think, are faced with discrepancies between our old conditioning and their greater access to sexual knowledge, freedoms and responsibilities. It's interesting ...

I'm not claiming any special insight, just encouraging your discussion :)

catwalker · 17/09/2010 08:34

Well, the ow in my case had been married for about 20 years and she was offering 'no strings' sex. However, she was unable to sustain that and, judging by her continued and rather desperate pursuit of my dh post sex, became emotionally attached to him. I have seen a text from my husband saying that she must stop and that this was not going anywhere. I've also seen one from her on the day of discovery saying that all she'd ever wanted was for him to feel the same way about her as she did about him but he clearly never had. So maybe, although she started out defying the feminine stereotype by offering no strings sex, she then became true to type by wanting an emotional relationship. Or maybe she just used sex as a means to an emotional relationship from the word go?

I said to my dh quite recently that my problem was I couldn't empathise with his behaviour. I can empathise with all sorts of bad behaviour because, as an emotional and quick to react person I can understand how someone can do something in the heat of the moment. I think I would be able to empathise if the sex had been spur of the moment; if, for example, he had gone to the ow's house for a legitimate reason, she'd offered him a drink and all of sudden he'd found himself in bed with her. But the sex he did have was arranged the day before with a whole 24 hours to consider what he was about to do. I've not always behaved as I should in relationships in my youth but I now see the world from the position of maturity, experience and with a family that means everything to me. If I didn't have my family I would not be able to go on. I thought he was looking at the world from the same position - from the same page if you like. So that makes it impossible for me to empathise with his actions.

I'm not sure if it is relevant - my dh thinks it is - but he was married very briefly in his early twenties. He says he knew he was making a mistake, and people were telling him he was making a mistake. But he felt he had committed to a course of action which he felt he had to see through even though, deep down, he knew it felt wrong. I can empathise with this to a degree as I remember being in relationships that didn't feel right but that I didn't know how to get out of. It sounds so easy, but sometimes it just isn't.

I think whereas I am a great worrier and will constantly question things, my dh isn't. I can see (but not understand) that once he's made his mind up about something he won't keep asking himself if that was the right decision. He will just get on with what he has decided to do. I suppose he just shut everything out to allow himself to go through with things. People talk about men being able to compartmentalise their emotions/life etc. His counsellor refers to "disassociation" where you mentally detach yourself from everything that matters to you. But then I suppose every unfaithful person manages to do that don't they?

TheSadTruth - the only person in my family who misuses the word 'like' is my 14 year old son. I'd be more likely to take relationship advice from him than you.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 17/09/2010 09:14

There are a few things I've been mulling over catwalker and I've had more thoughts since reading your post this morning.

But I want to get to the heart of what is troubling you right now.

Is this current wall you're facing best expressed then, by not being able to empathise with his actions and feeling that because his desire to sleep with the OW was greater than his desire to be faithful, he cannot love you enough, either then, or in the future?

catwalker · 17/09/2010 10:59

WWIFN - exactly so.

OP posts:
catwalker · 17/09/2010 11:04

And I feel that I am constantly looking for proof not of further infidelity or even that the affair was more than it was, but of the fact that, whatever he says now, he doesn't love me enough.

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 17/09/2010 13:13

catwalker thanks. I want to talk about two things then; the boundaries that were traversed on the lead-up to the hotel and furthermore, its aftermath and then, your inability to feel empathy for his actions. In relation to the love he felt and feels for you, I want you to recall your whole relationship.

I also want to reassure you that this particular wall is very familiar to me and want to share with you, how we dealt with it.

When you first posted all those months ago, I asked you to wrack your brains to recall his behaviour on the run-up to the assignation. This is made so much more difficult for you I know, because discovery was 18 months after the event.

One of your difficulties empathising with his actions is because you are perhaps thinking of how premeditated the assignation was - and you might be starting the clock from this point - and not before the hundreds of steps that were taken to get to that point.

What happens in an affair like your H's is that there is a slow build-up, where various things become permissible, all more dangerous than the last. But each one doesn't seem dangerous, because by that time he had normalised it. Let's work with your example (and it would be worth discussing this with your H).

If in the early days when their relationship was friendly but professional, if he had gone to her house, or met her in a hotel lobby and she had suggested sex, I suspect he would have refused point blank, even after a few drinks. You see at that point, he wouldn't have given himself permission to do anything untoward and the leap would have been too great.

So what happened instead was that when this first started, he would have been telling himself that this was a friendly relationship that was mutually profitable and therefore "safe". That was the first permission given. Then came some more personal discourse and compliments exchanged, more conversations about their lives. That's another barrier broken.

Your H might recall another watershed moment, when he started looking forward to the contact and the buzz it gave him, but he may also recall that he still didn't predict danger.

By the time it came to expressing a mutual sexual attraction, that would seem like a big barrier to you, but by that time it wouldn't have seemed like it to him - he probably still felt safe.

On and on it went, with more steps taken, more delusions of safety and the ability to back out, until the moment when he realised that he was going to go through with this. By that time, he will have been normalising it as no big deal - and minimising its meaning and effect; on him, on the OW and especially on you and the DCs.

I expect he is adamant that he kept telling himself that this was nothing to do with you or the DCs and therefore he was safe. The OW was never going to be an alternative and therefore the danger was nullified. You describe him as a measured, calm man who is not prone to over-reaction or dramatisation. He may have thought at the time that this served him well, because he was keeping a perspective about all this. In fact, the reverse was true and his character led him to under-estimate the effect. I wonder whether this is holding him back right now - and he still has this tendency to under-estimate the effect of all this?

After the hotel, for the first time, he might have had a more realistic view of the danger, especially when it became evident that the OW had fallen in love. So the fear kicked in and explains some of the damage limitation he engaged in for such a long time afterwards. For the first time too, he was able to make a link between all this and you. It is I think why your relationship improved from this point onwards.

Because he is a "minimiser", he didn't sense danger or feel fear until it was way too late. When he did start to feel these emotions, it caused him to value you so much more. He realised then that he had done something that if discovered, could cause him to lose you. It then became a battle to stop discovery happening, while at the same time cherishing you more.

You evidently aren't a minimiser. What you may self-deprecatingly believe to be volatility and over-reaction might be more accurately described as a good grip on reality. You are able to bargain away these differences in your approaches to things and it could help you if you recognise that of course you would have seen the danger at the different barriers breached by your H, but the minimiser that your H is, wouldn't.

And I do think the gender politics that I've mentioned are relevant here, as relevant at least as the culture your H has been exposed to, where respected colleagues voice a belief that a chap can't be expected to say no, that infidelity is ok if no-one gets hurt, that the really stupid men are the ones who fall in love with the OW and wreck families - and the mantra is "don't fall in love and don't get caught".

All of this might help you with your empathy and to imagine what a minimiser with low-self esteem and poor influences, might have been feeling.

Now, what was he feeling in terms of love for you when all this started, I wonder? I imagine he will say he has always loved you and that his actions do not equate to a loss of love at all.

Because of this, he wouldn't have said "yes" to an affair straight away.

But love is an action as well as a feeling and what happens in these slow-burning affairs where barriers are being transgressed all the time, is that the soon-to-be errant spouse starts to create a gap. It is almost entirely subconscious.

In the months or weeks leading up to the hotel, you or he might recall seemingly trivial things changing in terms of his attitude to you. Perhaps he stopped making you cups of tea as regularly, stopped complimenting you as much, stopped making efforts to please you in a myriad of different ways? Do you ever recall being exasperated that he hadn't done something promised, or properly - and instead of an apology, being met with defensiveness and a counter-attack of nagging or over-reacting? Any body language, such as eye-rolling or sighing when you remonstrated with him, even in a calm manner?

Do you ever recall saying or thinking "How come I'm the bad guy here?"

Do you recall, looking back, feeling unsettled and out of sorts - and pinning your unease on other things, such as the DCs, school choices, work etc.?

All of this gap creation is subconscious, but has the effect of reducing your marital connection and the love he felt for you. I reiterate, he wouldn't have known this was what he was doing, but in order to go through with this, he simply had to get to the point when he felt less empathy for you, even if he was telling himself throughout that he still loved you, so this wasn't dangerous.

What you might be able to agree on therefore that by the time he walked into that hotel, he wasn't feeling much love for you, because there was now a distance.

But regard this as an illusion catwalker. In reality, he never stopped loving you - but I suspect he created a situation where he allowed himself to feel it less keenly, otherwise he could never have done what he did. It simply wouldn't have been permissible.

One of the ways we got through this wall about the "love felt" was to recall other times in our long marriage when we had felt less loving towards eachother. This is why the Glass book is so helpful, because it suggests you review your entire relationship and timeline your feelings.

Of particular relevance was my H's recollection of the love he felt for me just before and after the OW got in touch out of the blue. He recalls feeling huge love and marital satisfaction and because of a key event around this time, we were able to pinpoint feelings very accurately. But we both recalled very vividly, his sense of disappointment at work and the low esteem he felt at being turned down for yes, a job that "had his name on it". This was out in the open, but what was hidden were his feelings of being out of his depth in a job he'd come to hate, or how incompetent he felt. These were feelings he was too proud to admit, even to me.

We were therefore able to settle on the affair not being the low point at all in the love felt, throughout our relationship. That there were other times when the love had seemed more fragile - and in fact, I'd had far more low points than him.

It might help you then to see what you regard as a lessening of love for you, for the illusion that it was. But talk this through and timeline it, it really did help us.

What a tome! I don't know if any of this helps you whatsoever, catwalker but I recognise so clearly the turmoil you are
in and the constant wrestling with your doubts. What I hope most of all is that this provides you with some talking points with your H, because you will and should, be talking about this for a long time to come.

I recognise the exhaustion too, but at some point there will be a difference noticed in the way you talk, that will seem more calm and healing. But you will feel anger and incomprehension for a while yet.