Moral dilemma

[ETfingers]

Could you support a friend who had an affair?

A friend has confided in me (and other close friends I imagine) that she has had an affair, is unhappy and no longer loves her husband , who is now fully in the picture.

I fundamentally disagree with her actions but in my heart I want to support her.

Could you put your beliefs to one side and support or not?

Yes I could. But what do my opinions matter? What do you think?

Some people are able to support the person without condoning their actions.

Whilst her actions are utterly despicable they surely have arisen because she's unhappy?

Of course I'd support her, she's a friend and one who needs love not judgement.

You can still hold onto your beliefs and values but surely if you had fucked up in your marriage, you'd want your friends to be there for you showing empathy.

I'm just wondering really what others think and exploring how I feel.

I will be supporting her but it feels hypocritical and a little uncomfortable.

I agree that her actions have arisen because of her unhappiness but I don't agree with her actions. Which is kind of hurting my head!

I am also concerned about the messages that my supporting (that may be misconstrued as condoning) her sends to others, my DH in particular. His friend has had an affair for the same reasons and I have been very clear how I feel about him and what he has done, and very open with my support for his wife.

walkingonsunshine - I am struggling to empathise to be honest. Perhaps I need to work on that.

Well after Reading your last post, I would say that it depends what exactly you are supportive of. If your friend is sorry about the pain she has caused and genuinely upset about her Hs pain, then you can support her in now making decisions that give her H dignity and honesty.

If she has less remorse than this and/or dismissive of the hurt she has caused, or blaming others, then I would be less supportive. If you make that type of distinction in your conversations with your H he might feel less threatened by you supporting her.

Nobody every fully understands what goes on in someone else's marriage / relationship and women usually have affairs for different reasons from men.

Lots of men who have affairs often don't really have a problem within their relationship (i.e. they are not unhappy in their marriage / relationship) but the majority of women do - therefore I do think you should try and support your friend if you can.

I agree Lady Lapsang that it is widely believed that women's affairs are borne out of unhappiness in the marriage, but I don't think that's always true at all. I think this belief (that unfortunately many women hold too) is rooted in complex sexual politics about women only having sex and an emotional connection with one man at a time.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of women therefore convince themselves that they can't be happy in their marriages, or else they wouldn't be having a crush/emotional or physical affair.

OP back to your friend. It depends how well you know her and how equipped you might be to unpick some of the beliefs she has about her affair and her marriage. You might be able to do a lot of good if you could challenge her on some of this stuff - and if your friendship is strong enough to be that challenging.

One of the things that happens in affairs (both male and female) is that history gets re-written by the unfaithful party, to justify what they have done.

As a really good friend, you could perhaps say up front that you disagree with infidelity, but want to help her so that she makes the right decisons - and understands the scripts she might be following.

If you don't feel able to challenge some of this stuff, it would be well worth suggesting that she sees a counsellor on her own, to process her feelings.

Dear God

Mens affairs are "bad" but Womens can be condoned or at least excused on the basis that a Woman has an affair for different reasons and a man just wants a fuck on the side.

If the op had been a man he would be slaughtered.

Double standards or what.

I agree. I hope that if I were in this situation, my level of support would be the same regardless of whether it was a male or female friend.

you can support her.
You don't have to approve though

newwave This is exactly the point I am making, but it goes beyond just the double-standards in terms of support offered to an unfaithful woman and the approbation dished out to a man in the same position.

I always want to challenge this assumption that women must be desperately unhappy in their marriages, to even consider an affair. It's as though women cannot admit that although there was nothing wrong with their relationship, they simply fancied sex with someone else.

I do wonder whether if women were more clear-sighted about the motives for their extra-marital relationships, they wouldn't automatically assume that their marriage is doomed and their spouse, dispensible.

But this is the sort of dialogue I'd be having (and have had) with a friend in this situation; trying to unpick the truth from the delusions and challenging the gender politics.

Nicely put WWIFN. I think I fall into the camp of assuming that anyone who has an affair is unhappy with their relationship (which is what happened with my DH, and we worked through it, both changing things we were unhappy with). Because of my experience I had failed to take into account that the world is peopled by little (and big) shites of both sexes who just have no regard for others' feelings.

Back in my place now

Though I'd hope that if in this position, as I was friends with the person they wouldn't be doing it because they were a shite and doing it because they were unhappy IYSWIM?

A year ago, I'd have said yes, I'd support the friend.

Now I have to say no. Having experienced the pain and carnage affairs cause there's no way I could continue to be a friend to someone who's inflicted that on their partner/children.

Agree with akhems. My DH had an affair with a colleague earlier this year and the "pain and carnage" description is totally accurate.

I had such a shock that my periods arrived earlier and were heavier. That coupled with the stress of him walking out and then cominng back (all the while I am keeping life going as normal for the children who are 4 and 2) has made me anaemic. I'm on a 2 month course of medication and have had to stop giving blood (probably permanently) because of what DH and his colleague did to me.

No way would I support a friend in this position. People need to understand that affairs have consequences and really really damage innocent people.

But you are making an assumption there about the level of pain and hurt in their situation, based on your own experience and it may be completely different.

Also it is sort of implying intentionality on the part of the person who had an affair - that they intended to cause the level of hurt they did.

The reasons that I would support a friend, male or female, who had had an affair, would be if I saw they had gone into it blindly almost, without thinking of the pain they would cause, and were full of remorse afterwards. Or if they really were very unhappy in their marriage and recognised that an affair had happened because of them not dealing properly with that unhappiness.

If an friend of mine had that reaction after having an affair, I could not turn my back on them. But like someone else said, I could tell them that I found the deceit etc didn't match my own values.

Thank you all for your perspectives - it really has helped me make sense of my mixed up feelings!

Although I still haven't quite decided what I am going to say/do, I have a better idea about where I am coming from.

Of course you should support her.

I have a relative who just committed a very serious crime. Obviously I don't for a moment condone what she did which is clearly extremely wrong, but I will still visit her in prison and try to be there for her. Apart from anything else, I will never know the full circumstances and they could well have been extraordinary. She has certainly always been a very loving and caring member of the extended family and that doesn't disappear overnight.

The same is true of your friend; it is very difficult to know what goes on behind closed doors and she has (presumably, as you are friends) always been there for you in tough times.

In any case, what kind of person would you be if you were to habitually drop friends the moment their behaviour slipped from the morally perfect mark? And how many friends would you have left in 10 years time?

You have to be very careful before starting to judge others.

well said, conflicted

I agree with conflicted. One thing getting older has taught me is that you never know what goes on behind closed doors. Your friend may not tell the whole story to anyone, not even you. Anything could have gone on in that marriage and you won't necessarily know. I've also learnt that the saying about never judging someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes holds very true.

You can support without condoning.

I had to cut all ties with a friend who I cared about dearly for a long time. She was unhappy in her relationship which I supported her through. She then started having casual sex seeking affection that way rather than from her DP. Then she started a relationship. We had a night out one night which ended for us at about midnight, I went home, my DP was fast asl

eep and didn't remember me coming in. We were then at the 1st birthday party of friends little boy the next night and her DP said to my DP 'aren't these girls naughty creeping in at 4 a.m. hey dude'. Clubs/pubs etc are/were at the time closed by 2 a.m. at the latest on a Thursday night. She told him we went to a lock in..... we didn't know any pub owners to be able to do that!!!

The situation got very hairy at one point. Luckily my DP trusts me completely and had an idea what was going on so he played along but that was the first of a couple of instances. in the end I couldn't cope with it any more, we had a big blow up and have not spoken since. I'm very sad about it but I know she still is doing the same thing even though she now has a baby girl as well as her son. I don't think I could ever support a friend through an affair again.

I do think it can reflect on you if you tolerate it, kind of like saying 'it's ok as long as I don't do it' but I also know its hard to walk away if you know your friend is unhappy. However, I strongly believe that being unhappy is not an excuse to behave in that way, it is not acceptable and will always end in tears and most likely, at some point you will be expected to lie or provide an alibi.

You can certainly judge her, you can tell her you disapprove and you can also speak to her about the reasons why she choose to do it. I would only speak to her btw if she elicited your opinion. I would also say it would be desperately unfair of your friend to ask that you take sides.

I helped my own dearest friend when she was contemplating an affair. I talked her through it. She was always well aware that I also liked her husband. Thankfully she didn't go ahead with it. However I would still have talked to her about it if she wanted to.

She has helped me so much through 'the pain and carnage' of my husband's affair.

This is a very personal decision. Good luck.

You can certainly judge her, you can tell her you disapprove and you can also speak to her about the reasons why she choose to do it. I would only speak to her btw if she elicited your opinion. I would also say it would be desperately unfair of your friend to ask that you take sides.

I helped my own dearest friend when she was contemplating an affair. I talked her through it. She was always well aware that I also liked her husband. Thankfully she didn't go ahead with it. However I would still have talked to her about it if she wanted to.

She has helped me so much through 'the pain and carnage' of my husband's affair.

This is a very personal decision. Good luck.

Well, it's not really a moral dilemma is it?

Moral dilemmas are not about how loudly to express disapproval of other peoples behaviour.

Morals are not about pursed lips and snide reproaches.

Moral dilemmas are when you, yourself, are faced with a difficult choice, which this is not - be her friend. Everyone needs friends.

Perhaps one day you'll do something of which you are ashamed; your friends will stay with you.