I'm allowed to hate my sister, right?

[getabloodygrip]

I have had these feelings for over 30 years, but I need to say something to someone. DH is away and she has yet again made me mad, sad, angry and near to tears. What she actually did this time is irrelevant, I won't bore you, it's minor in the grand scheme, it just brought all my feelings to the fore.

I despise her, every fibre of her being.

She is thick, selfish, inconsiderate, lacking in any sense of reality, has no manners, has no respect, has absolutely no idea about responsibility, has ripped off my parents her whole life, speaks without thinking, and last but not least, and worst of all, thinks she has some kind of bloody god given right to now be involved in my life because I have children. She didn't get in touch for years, but once my DC arrived she was all gush gush gush, oh I am such a wonderful aunty, let me at them let me at them let me at them.

She has no genuine interest in them other than how it reflects on her, makes HER seem important, gives HER someone to boss around and be pathetic near. They are still young, but they are cottoning on to her, and I don't want her to have any involvement or influence in their life in any way shape or form. She is pure poison.

I have hated her all my life, if I had my way, I would never ever see her again. My DH hates her even more than I do.

My Mum and Dad know how I feel, obviously it makes them sad, but they say I have to put up and shut up, that she somehow is entitled (fuck off she is) to be involved in their lives, and have basically said, if I block her from me and my immediate family, then they will have no choice but to not see us either. They can't stand her either, she is a drain, financially, emotionally and physically on their whole life. They are mid to late 60s now, they don't have the strength either to deal with her or to fight with her, she just runs rough shod over them now.

I worked hard my whole life, found a wonderful man, love where we live and two fantastic children. Life is good, hard work, but good. SHE, the she devil, hardly did a day's proper work in her whole sodding life, was bought a house (yes a HOUSE) for which she doesn't pay the mortgage or any rent. She has an almost brand new car now too, all her bills are paid, she fucks about, gets drunk and just pisses her money up the wall on the latest phone/clothes and my parents still feed this monster.

I am not in the slightest jealous of her, if you are thinking I am. I would be mortified to be 35 and totally dependent on my parents. I own everything I have, it is all mine/ours. Every last bit. I made my own career, found my own husband, created my own life around all that and never asked for a thing.

She is everything I despise rolled into one person.

I never want to see her again. My family says I have to. My DH says fuck her, never see her again. My Dad even said to me that I had to "compromise" regarding putting my children first, I had to take my sister's feelings into account, even if I didn't want to. WHAT THE FUCK, he has kids, doesn't he know your kids always always come first?

But I cannot bear that my DC would lose touch with their GP's.... that makes me very very

Rant over. Sorry it's so long. I couldn't stop. I've never written all this down before. 30 years of hurt has just burst out! I am so angry I am actually shaking.

Yes, you are allowed to hate who you like but what is more important is how you deal with it. You are an adult and if you don't want to see someone, don't. No one can make you and children won't melt if they have a smaller family than the average.

Obviously I don't knw anyone involved in this situation but I would be surprised if your parents really did cut themselves off from their grandchildren over this. I would say don't let that be a factor in your decision making process.

Ohdearwhatamess.

Write a letter to your parents, when you are feeling much calmer and happier, explaining why their ultimatum (choose her or us) is so unfair on you. Tell them you love them and if they ever change their minds you will always be available to them. Then cut contact with your sister. It does no one any good to have all this hatred festering in their lives.

She sounds horrific. Also, your parents have enabled this for all these years and are now trying to blackmail you emotionally to continue to see her.

I'm sure they haven't meant to do all this, but ultimately they have and continue to put her needs well above yours. So, hard as it is, you needn't feel bad if you call their bluff over the threat that they won't see you if you don't see her.

I'm also sure they wouldn't go through with it.

The fault heer lies with your parents, they have never stood up to her, and now, when you want to stand up to her, they threaten you, not her, because I assume they are now scared of your sister who doesn't give a sod about anyone, but they are not scared of you and think they can "guilt" you into not upsetting your sister, because basically they don't want a row with your sister.

Your parents are putting your sister's happiness above yours.

I agree with you that enough is enough, if your parents think that not upsetting your sister and keeping seeing her is more important than seeing you or your family then their values are very warped and having them out of your life will probably be positive.

I agree with you that you need to put your children's well being before your sister's, and your parents should understand this. Sadly, your sister is a bully and your parents seem to want to be victims.

Inform your parents you no longer wish to see your sister and they can sort out their own life.

Life is too short to spend time placating unreasonable people you don't like, even if you happen to be related to them.

PB C36 and NMcNC

All of you talk sense, utter sense.

C36 - part of me can't believe my parents would actually sever all contact either, but I am just a bit scared of calling their bluff on it.. makes my heart sink. I question their judgment generally to be honest when push comes to shove because their judgment has been so misplaced when it has come to her their whole lives. I actually think they mean it, in a way, or at least they think they do. They are very "black and white" people, stubborn too.. Can't call this one..

NMcNC - have often thought about and nearly started that letter... never managed to express myself adequately in a reasonable calm tone, just thinking about the silly bitch works me into a quivering tearful wreck. But yes, if I could do that, I know DH would absolutely support it. It was his suggestion several years ago.

PB - that is pretty much what I said to my Dad - life is too short, why do I have to tolerate someone in my space, just because we share some blood?? That was when he started up all this compromise bollocks stuff.

Ahh well, I feel a little calmer, just for getting the rant OUT of me, storing it all up is not good. DH was here on Monday when she initially tipped me over the edge (didn't even see her, it was simply a phone call FFS) and he was livid with the effect she has on me, just a few words in a phone call has set the whole thing off again.

Anyway, thanks for your help. I need to address this this year, before my children are any older.

DG and Miggsie. I love you! Wow, you have analysed the situation to perfection.

Get

You have already been given some great counsel so will not add to this.

I think your parents have enabled her since childhood as well; this is a long standing issue. I think you have been treated disgracefully by both your parents and your sister and having them all out of your lives would likely be no great loss to you and your own family unit.

I would suggest you read up on NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) regarding your sister.

YOur parents sound frightened of her. Why else would they toe the line and meet her every demand? And why else would they feel the need to issue you with an ultimatum when you say you've had enough.

You love your parents but you can't be responsible for them - they are adults. They need to take action themselves. Don't be held to ransom by their refusal to do anything.

I'm certain they will still see you and your gcs if you cut contact with your sister. And if they don't, well, rather that than let that malign presence your sister seems to be in their lives.

You will feel an almighty relief once you've cut contact with her and you can get on without her ever having to cross your mind.

Quite how you go about cutting contact, I've no idea. She sounds like she might rant and rave and fume and pursue you!

Good luck.

No need for the fear, obligation, guilt "Fog"...read up on emotional abusers if you would feel better with some other source justification to finally make the necessary boundaries. "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft is aimed at men, but when I read it, bells rang for my middle sister...control, disrespect.

It is phenomenally fantastic that you have your dh's support and encouragement.

I agree with others that say the parents bluff may be called. If they stand by your sister rather than you, what message is that sending to the dc/gc? That your/their feelings do not matter. I hope you take this circumstance to focus on your dc and try to never minamize their feelings.

A suggestion is to just say you've been worn out. Your care has been worn out, your love, your empathy, across the board. You need 'a break' (may not be necessary to declare permanence-time going by will declare that for you) from the relationship. Her protests will be all about her, no doubt, even name calling nastiness to you - is about her. You need space, and yes, you speak for your dc as well.

Your dc will be better off without this dramatically toxic personality in their lives. So try not to be caught up in the brainwashing of family 'duty', (fog again).

I set my boundary to minimal superficial contact with my toxic middle sister in March '08. She has not met my youngest (born Mar '08). It really is like a life time burden has been lifted and I can breathe adequately for the first time.

WW They are frightened in a way, I've said it to them before (which they didn't like), can't remember what word I used but to that effect.

She makes their life sooooo hideously awful over this whole "access" thing, that it is easier, or so they think, to push me into line. I do tend to back down simply because I cannot bear what she does to them, it makes them unhappy and that makes me unhappy. I have been held to ransom, bugger you are, all of you, so insightful and have such clarity of thought and expression on all this for me.

I cannot thank you enough.

Thing is, she won't rave and fume and pursue me if/when I go through with this, well, she will a bit, but I will tell her to fuck off and she will give up after a while. Instead, she will go bloody apeshit for weeks at them, and she will make their life very very difficult. That is what makes me hesitate and makes me oh and fucking . Naturally.

I almost broke contact before, kind of and I had my Dad begging me, literally begging me to give way because of the grief she caused to them. I told him to tell her what I would tell her, Eff Off, in those exact terms, but clearly he either couldn't/wouldn't/didn't want to... My next step in that situation had been that I was going to call her and tell her to leave them the fuck alone as far as the situation with me and my family was concerned, but I relented at the "Dad" stage of the process so it was never necessary and didn't happen.

Oh fuckety fuck fuck fuck. This will come up a few weeks before Christmas, it's the usual annual trigger point. We never spend Xmas with my folks, they are clear on that as there is no way I would ever ever ever Xmas with HER. They have accepted that. But there is usually a visit sometime around that time and each year there is a huge row, and through my gritted teeth I accept a limited visitation. Perhaps, never again... Maybe. My DH is absolutely up for it and will be with me (not behind me) 100%....

Deep Breath, Keep Calm and Carry On.

Bless you all, you are truly wonderful.

I think your last post clarifies why you are hesitating. If you ultimately don't break contact with your sister because you are too concerned about our parents you should not feel guilty about that. You are in a crap situation and it is not your fault that you can't make it right for the two sets of people you obviously care about.

Let this be the year for your emancipation. The ultimate Christmas gift to yourself, not to mention your lovely family unit.

Your parents are adults. You really do not owe them anything. I know, it is hard for some to get their heads around that statement, but it is true. Let them handle it-suggest extensive travel, or educate them on the word 'no'.

Yes, it'll be a *hit storm, but so what? Just let it wash over you, you need not respond to anything she says, threatens, 'whatever'...and that may go for what your parents throw on you as well. You are independent.

There is nothing to discuss, nothing to negotiate. Your limit has been met and then some. No more. You are done.

The 'petty' things, btw, ...please don't diminish your experience or feelings. The 'petty' things are part of a campaign called "Death by Ten Thousand Cuts". Your horror of a sister has her quota on you, it is time for her to move on to someone else. Your good manners, patience, family duty, (and any other excuse you can think of that is in your way of setting this boundary) are all worn out from it.

Do it this week, the sooner the better as you say the holidays are coming. And have a jolly, merry, Merry Christmas. New meaning to 'Joy to the World' is awaiting you.

A very similar thing happened in my family. I have a sibling who is impossible to deal with. I have kept my mouth shut with them for years.

A couple of years ago she came to my house with my mother to celebrate my teenage daughter's birthday. She started to have a go, very nasty, at my daughter, and I just flipped. All those years of saying nothing, putting up with the shit, ignoring her...it all came to a head. SO I threw her out of the house, and of course my mother followed her meakly out.

This was a few weeks before Christmas, which I always do at mine, because my sister's house 'is too small'. A few weeks later, I made a point of asking my mother to come to us for her usual Christmas, and she said she would not come unless I invited my sister. If I did not invite my sister she was going to sit at home on her own with a sandwich.

Of course she knew full well that I would cave in, and not allow her to sit at home 'with a sandwich' so I ended up inviting them both as usual. I have not had an apology from my sister, and I have said to my mother since that I felt that she chose my sister above me in that little drama. She denied this and said she had no idea what I was talking about.

My mother is NPD and so is my sister.

I have restricted my contact with them to birthdays and Christmas, while my mother is still alive, as she is very elderly.

I can just about cope with this level of contact. Also since the throwing out incident, my sister has behaved herself with me. I will never forgive my mother though for taking her side. But then she has always done it so why was I so surprised?

I don't know the answer..I wish I did. I am ten months downt he line with psychotherapy from all this and other abusive relationships.

I think what I am trying to say is that you don't have to make a huge statement...I am cutting you off....just try and limit your contact, and reduce it more and more, until you can cope.

You really have to guard your own mental health, it's a precious thing, and difficult to get back once it's gone!

Her needs come first because she is so incapable of doing anything for herself. She has no independent thought, no opinion of her own other than some godforsaken shite she will have read somewhere on the internet. She has a view on everything, but nothing, it is all meaningless. Therefore she needs propping up and "helping".

I can be "pushed about" because I am the reasonable one, I can see someone else's point of view and have some idea how someone else might be feeling (ie. my folks) so at the end, I am human, I currently feel I couldn't live with the outcome, so that makes me back down.

Maybe not for much longer though. I need the singlemindedness and clarity of thought to do this.

It would be easier if she was utterly vile only and directly to me. That would be very very straightforward. Done deal. However, she is using them - the only remotely clever thing she has ever done in her life - actually, I don't think she is being deliberately scheming there, she is just too thick, just that accidentally she has managed to make this much much more difficult for all concerned by having my parents as the middle men.

We are in the most ridiculous situation that now, whenever my folks want to come and see us (which usually includes an overnight stay because we are just not quite close enough for day trips) they have to lie to her (FFS!) about where they are going and what they are doing and mum always says to me, if for some reason you speak to your sister, don't tell her... as if I would speak to her (not a chance!) but I'm certainly not going to lie and they know that. But they are TOO SCARED to tell her that they are visiting us without her. Quite remarkable. One time, about 3 years ago when I was very ill, my parents came over and collected me to take me to their house for a few days. DH was dealing with two tiny children and I was in a very bad way and needed a lot of help quickly, medical and all, so they stepped in. Anyway, we didn't tell HER, that was the last thing I needed. They managed, somehow (I was ga-ga on opiates at the time so it is all a bit hazy ) to keep her at bay.

The last day I was there, it got out, she found out in the end, and she phoned my dad on his mobile and was screaming "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME I NEED TO KNOW" because of course, she thought, where I was the children to which she has a god given right mustn't be far behind. Anyway, and I was in the car, so heard it all, my Dad actually said "Fuck Off , just leave us alone". My Dad is quite well to do, retired successful businessman. It wasn't what I expected to hear. She had absolutely pushed him to his edge, I wasn't in any condition to deal with anything so for once he stepped up to the plate. I was so pleased, and so proud of him, for the first time in her life properly someone had actually told her where to go. Sadly, it has never happened again so far as I am aware. I sent her a text later that day to say "Leave dad alone and get off making all these calls on your bloody work phone or I will report you to your boss".

It scares the shit out of me, but I am going to take everything that I have said here, and (hope you don't mind) use your analysis, which is oh so good, and come up with a written state of affairs. I will show this to DH, he will be bowled over and I will naturally have to confess that I have had help (cheers!) but the hard part is going to be distilling something into a conversation or a letter (quite possibly both) to send on without it just becoming a slanging match.

Why do I want anything to do with the person who had their hands round my throat, only interrupted by my mother walking in??

I didn't speak to her for years, literally, but I was forced to invite her to my wedding (I wasn't paying the bill). That person who did that to me only a few years before.

But that is only the tip of the iceberg. My DH actually asked me, in all seriousness, whether she had ever been diagnosed as having any age deficiency(??Wrong terminology??) issues - it is like dealing with a child trapped in an adult's body. God forbid that she would ever have a partner or a child, heaven help them. She is far far far too selfish, luckily, and I hope that time runs out for her before that awful prospect might come to pass.

Long again - sorry - this has been a massive help to me, as you can tell.

Google Personality Disorders. I think you will find her there.

Gettingagrip - our nicknames! We are destined to meet!! How amazing. God, I am so sorry for what you have been through, sorry it has caused you so much grief and anguish, we are very much in the same vein here.

I have never actually thrown her out, though have said to Dad, if she isn't gone in 15 minutes, I am not responsible for my actions. I have walked out of my own house to cool off on occasion too.

Our contact is already absolutely bare minimum.

I have had therapy, initially for mother issues. It's always been very hard to be knocked down by my own mother right through my life for lots of things only to see her put my low life sister on a pedestal, oh no, we can't possibly hurt shithead's feelings, but you, well, I can say what I like to you because you just pick yourself up and get right back on the horse.

Sister issues, however, were in abeyance at the time of the therapy - it was before I got married so in the happy time of when I didn't speak to her for 3 or 4 years, so not at the forefront of my emotions and difficulties, which were purely related to mother, relationships and a dying friend. My darling DH has always been wonderful with these things - I met him around the time of the therapy - he has a very straightforward view of life - if you don't like it, then fuck it. It pulled me through then and he has pulled me back from the brink several times since. And he will be a rock when it comes to addressing all this crap for what I hope might, finally, be the very last time.

Oh christ, it's hard though!

It is hard. There are some very good sites about all this. have you ever looked at personality disorders? I really think you will find your answer in the very good sites that are out there.

These people are a real and present danger to your mental health, and your children's. You have to look after your selves first and foremost.

I am now intrigued by your sister, gabg. Sorry. Does she have friends? She has a job ... does she have much else going on in her life? Why is she so wrapped up in yours and your parents?

I have just spoken to my brother on the phone tonight, haven't spoken to him for about 2 or 3 months and I haven't seen him since April (although we live only about 50 minutes drive apart). This is normal for us. Relations are good. I speak to my mum about once every 10/14 days and my dad about once a month. Afaik we are all happy with this. None of us knows the minutiae of what is going on in each others' lives.

It seems that your sister has never really grown up. She sounds as though she is stuck in the utterly selfish teenage years (sorry but teenagers are basically selfish). I wonder what happened?

All sympathies to you.

dear OP (I never usually post on relationships threads but...)

if you can see what's going to happen at Christmas as it is so predictable, why don't you write your parents a letter on that sort of basis:

"dear parents. It's september and (this) has just happened. I have therefore decided to cut contact with my sister (because I value my family's sanity). I love you both too but I can't deal with my sister and you seem to value her more than me

"I know you will be upset with this. as you have done in the past, you will ask me to reconsider. you will call this 'compromising'. But I call it 'emotional blackmail'.

"the next thing that will happen is that she will get angry at you because she can't get to me. then you will...

"by christmas she will have (examples) and usually I would have been (usual reaction.

"the difference this year will be that my DH and children will not have (this screaming loony) in their lives, which I think is a very good thing.

"the children will miss you very much at Christmas but I want to protect them (sister). I am not going to compromise on this so I will give you the same sort of choice you have given me in the past - us or her."

hm, reading that back it seems a bit emotional-blackmaily itself. perhaps leave out the last para. just the plain story so they can watch it unfolding.

now I remember why I never post in relationships - i hope this isn't bad/counterproductive input!

Thx for the personality disorders tip, hadn't really thought about it in those terms, but suspect there will be some seriously enlightening stuff in there.

Not researched it all, but I suspect in terms of handling this with my parents, it is going to become pretty obvious that my sister is a clear product of my mother's own crapisms. However, mum is a mere drop in the ocean compared to her Twatiness, who is the majorly concentrated version of whatever disorder it is, but it's definitely there... Oh well, onwards and upwards. Life is too short.

Your children are your first priority. After that, it's yourself and your DH.

Your parents are playing her games, you don't need to. If they cut contact with you and your DCs, they will loose more than you will. Call their bluff.

Make it clear to them that even if your Sister makes them choose, you won't, you're happy for them to have a relationship with both their DDs.

If you have had counselling or therapy then you already know it can be a useful, but painful tool to healing yourself and coping with difficult, abusive people in your life. You need to let go of your feelings of responsibility for your parents. They are grownups, and responsible for their own feelings and behaviour. You need to forgive them for being pretty crap, and then you need to let go of it, and stick to your guns. I have done with with my dad, who was a violent alcoholic. Your sister is causing you as much pain as my dad did me, and you have to stand up to it and cut her off, for your own sanity and your family's safety. Talk this through with your DH because I'll bet he will back you up and support you.

Tell your parents that you love them, but you cannot have contact with your sister. If they want to, that's up to them, but you will not. That they are always welcome to be part of your life and your children's lives but that your sister is not. And do not let them blackmail you, do not even let them DISCUSS it with you. Just say This. Is. Not. Up. For Discussion. And if they try to bring it up, repeat ad nauseum and change the subject. Imagine that they are troublesome work colleagues, that you have a connection with but who can't hurt you.

If they are idiotic enough to cut your DC off, then they lose out, not her. My kids don't need an emotionally fucked up, abusive grandparent, and neither do yours. Besides, YOU are not cutting them off, and you are not asking them to cut your sister off, you are just cutting your sister off. They need to deal with that. YOU DO NOT NEED TO DEAL WITH IT FOR THEM. Their happiness is not your responsibility. Let it go.

Fucking hard. But you deserve to be loved and respected.

Great post, KirsteinR.

Wow, all you posters are just fantastic. Thank you, I cannot say it enough times.

Now it's down to me. It's a no brainer. I need a few days to get all this together and straight in my head and some time, not far away I suspect, this will be dealt with.