I'm allowed to hate my sister, right?

[getabloodygrip]

I have had these feelings for over 30 years, but I need to say something to someone. DH is away and she has yet again made me mad, sad, angry and near to tears. What she actually did this time is irrelevant, I won't bore you, it's minor in the grand scheme, it just brought all my feelings to the fore.

I despise her, every fibre of her being.

She is thick, selfish, inconsiderate, lacking in any sense of reality, has no manners, has no respect, has absolutely no idea about responsibility, has ripped off my parents her whole life, speaks without thinking, and last but not least, and worst of all, thinks she has some kind of bloody god given right to now be involved in my life because I have children. She didn't get in touch for years, but once my DC arrived she was all gush gush gush, oh I am such a wonderful aunty, let me at them let me at them let me at them.

She has no genuine interest in them other than how it reflects on her, makes HER seem important, gives HER someone to boss around and be pathetic near. They are still young, but they are cottoning on to her, and I don't want her to have any involvement or influence in their life in any way shape or form. She is pure poison.

I have hated her all my life, if I had my way, I would never ever see her again. My DH hates her even more than I do.

My Mum and Dad know how I feel, obviously it makes them sad, but they say I have to put up and shut up, that she somehow is entitled (fuck off she is) to be involved in their lives, and have basically said, if I block her from me and my immediate family, then they will have no choice but to not see us either. They can't stand her either, she is a drain, financially, emotionally and physically on their whole life. They are mid to late 60s now, they don't have the strength either to deal with her or to fight with her, she just runs rough shod over them now.

I worked hard my whole life, found a wonderful man, love where we live and two fantastic children. Life is good, hard work, but good. SHE, the she devil, hardly did a day's proper work in her whole sodding life, was bought a house (yes a HOUSE) for which she doesn't pay the mortgage or any rent. She has an almost brand new car now too, all her bills are paid, she fucks about, gets drunk and just pisses her money up the wall on the latest phone/clothes and my parents still feed this monster.

I am not in the slightest jealous of her, if you are thinking I am. I would be mortified to be 35 and totally dependent on my parents. I own everything I have, it is all mine/ours. Every last bit. I made my own career, found my own husband, created my own life around all that and never asked for a thing.

She is everything I despise rolled into one person.

I never want to see her again. My family says I have to. My DH says fuck her, never see her again. My Dad even said to me that I had to "compromise" regarding putting my children first, I had to take my sister's feelings into account, even if I didn't want to. WHAT THE FUCK, he has kids, doesn't he know your kids always always come first?

But I cannot bear that my DC would lose touch with their GP's.... that makes me very very

Rant over. Sorry it's so long. I couldn't stop. I've never written all this down before. 30 years of hurt has just burst out! I am so angry I am actually shaking.

Oops. I posted in my "fun side" not my "dark side" Oh well. It doesn't matter. but it was me, I have to split my life (sad isn't it?).

You are all marvellous, I really mean that.

God haven't had contact with my toatlly bonkers toxic sister fro years - parents always chose her over me - apparently because she wasn't as; clever, pretty, outgoing, friendly etc etc etc.......

No she is a stark raving fucking nutter who you have to be careful what you say in front of because even if it is innocent she will take it as a major slight - everything I have done is to get at her - good job, lovely husband and two great kids - all to get at her, rub her nose in it.

Life is so much easier without her around - she actually stopped talking to me after I told her she was being confrontational for contacting ACAS becase someone had given her a job at the end of her probation period without asking her if she wanted it!!

Oh and she walked out on her daughter (although was the best bloody mum in the world apparently - terribly maternal!) when she was 2 and when said daughter didn;t want anything to do with her was the kids fault - she didn;t abandon her -no no no.

Really get rid best for you and the kids. Keep pluggin away at your aprents and taking the kids round there when she is not ther and I doubt they will turn you away.

MC are you me?!

I can't take them round because they are so weak that if I say I am coming over, they phone her, even when I say DO NOT PHONE MY SISTER. They just do phone her. Mum says she can't help it. So I don't go. Ever. End of. I only ever see them when they come here. She is never ever invited, I have never once invited my sister to my house, but somehow, like a bad fucking penny, she still seems to turn up.

My sister does the exact thing you describe of taking major slight on an off the cuff comment. Confrontational, Oh Boy! She gets the oscar for that! Luckily, she has no DC, thank god, otherwise, she would no doubt emulate your sister there too...

Yes, I get the whole "you're all right Jack" speech from my parents, "she hasn't gone anyone/thing'. Whose bloody fault is that then, huh? I put effort into life, I get something back. She has put NO effort into life. she gets nothing back. It's kind of obvious really. Or to any normal person it would be.

Nearly time to crash. No DH to sleep like a starfish, I had better make the most of it!

You tell her she is not welcome at your house.

You tell her exactly what you think of her - get it off your chest - not in a shouty yelly kind of way, more in a this is what I think of you, we are just very different and I don't see us as having a productive relationship, you don't affect my life in a good way, if you were a friend I would have dumped you a long time ago sort of thing. Or try the we are different speech - I am successful, you are not, I am pretty and attractive, you could be if your fucking great attitude and the 85ft piece of oak resting on your shoulder didn't get in the way and you took some fucking responsibility for being such a great big fuck up - sorry and getting a little carried away!

Really would you have her as a friend - NO!!!!

So who says you have to have a friendly relationship with her just beacuse you were borne of the same womb. Cripes makes me want to vomit even thinking of having shared the same womb with that psycho (albeit at different times!)

"The fault here lies with your parents, they have never stood up to her, and now, when you want to stand up to her, they threaten you, not her, because I assume they are now scared of your sister who doesn't give a sod about anyone, but they are not scared of you and think they can "guilt" you into not upsetting your sister, because basically they don't want a row with your sister.

Your parents are putting your sister's happiness above yours."

100% agree. They thought they were giving themselves an easier life by pandering to her and now they have a 35 yr old monster on their hands. Maybe she has a personality disorder or a learning disability or something but that is no reason to subject your family to her.

Your parents may have one last chance to grow some balls in order to continue to see their GCs. Their choice.

OMG. I truly thought it was just me. I have a toxic psychopath sister who could start an argument in an empty room and who we all have to tiptoe round because of the aggro if we don't.

Maybe we could start a club and call it psychosRthem or something

i;d fuck her off

i don't believe family have the right to be fuckers just becuase they are related.

bollocks to her.

Ohnoherewego and gettingagrip - are we all related, do we have the same sister. I nearly spat coffee all over the computer at "start an argument in an empty room". If one sentence covers everything - the hopeless shitty person, the extraordinariness and absurdity of the situation - that is surely it.

NMcNC - you said "I am now intrigued by your sister, gabg. Sorry. Does she have friends? She has a job ... does she have much else going on in her life? Why is she so wrapped up in yours and your parents?"

Think she has transient friends, no real MATES. Not proper ones. She has a job, sort of, but it's kind of a friend of Dad's doing her a favour to just make her think she has a job (IYSWIM). Keeps her out of harms way, just about, for 8 hours a day, though god knows what carnage she causes to their business and their clients. Don't really know what she does, but don't suspect she has any front office contact. The prospect of her dealing with an angry customer and bawling them out because SHE IS NEVER WRONG makes me shudder actually.

There is a pitiful little going on in her life. She and my mum are both so similar. Expect life to come to them, don't go and seek out anything. So, yes, I think my sister is kind of stuck as a surly 13 year old - we've often said she acts and speaks like a young spoilt brat. Since that age, she has had no need to really grow up and "enter the human race" because no one has made her.

But my mum's role model of just DOING NOTHING won't have helped, Ie. my poor long suffering Dad. He worked so damned hard his whole life, did very very well, life is very good for them now (other than the sister issue) but he has two loon females draining every last ounce of strength out of him.

My mum is an airhead too, not as malicious as my sister, but definitely stuck in her own crazy world. She is the kind of person who wasn't sure if she would come to her DGC's first school play, or go and get her nails done. FFS, just book the nails for another day, so no chance of a clash and get on with it. The selfishness is plain for all to see, I know where my sister gets that from.

The pure evil though, the aggression, the confrontational side etc, not quite sure.. think her wires genuinely got crossed very early on and no one figured out how to deal/unravel, so she got stuck as she is.

For some reason parents think just because they have children then they should all get along.

It seems to me mothers seem to play daughters off against each other a lot. I get played by my mum. I also run around like a blue arsed fly for her. Am 70 miles away with a family of my own (including a disabled kid) whilst my sister sits on her arse doing nowt. No commitments or job for her, they're 'too hard' for her. We have the bare minimum of contact.

I'll sort my mum out, but when she's no longer around, I'll cut her loose. And no, I won't feel bad about it.

Just cos you got the same genes don't make you bosom buddies.

Your parents won't cut you off if you cut her loose. They'll just see you on the quiet and not tell her. Sister sounds like an indulged spoilt madam, frankly. Be aware your ma may well slag you off to her as well.
Sounds like your ma is well capable of emotional blackmail.

Well your parents sound as bad as her tbh.

Of course it´s sad for them that you don´t get on.

But they could see both of you, they don´t have to choose.

No GPs are better than crap ones, I always say.

Getabloodygrip

Re one of your earlier comments:-

"it is like dealing with a child trapped in an adult's body

"That in a nutshell is a narcissist (do read up on NPD).

There are striking similarities between your situation and the one I have with the outlaws (BIL is a narcissist and PILs have enabled him to the nth degree. At 47 he also has no friends, no job and lives with them. They are also afriad of him but will do anything to enable him). Your sister's personality seems very similar to my BIL and narcs can be vicious verbally as well. They always have to be right!!. BTW BIL has not spoken to us for three years and I stay away from the ILs as much as possible for my own mental health. Minimal contact all the way.

I would also argue that your mother is probably a narcissist in terms of personality as well and both she and her H (the bystander) are happily acting as the supply (just as my ILs are doing).

I am in a situation very similar to you and completely recognise your anger towards her.

The real problem though is your parents, they have in all probability created the 'monster' and are now making your like a misery by insisting on contact with her so in a way your anger is misplaced... but it is harder to be angry with your parents. They are not respecting your boundaries, they do not have you or your family's best interests at heart and for your own sanity you need to deal with that. In some ways I feel sorry for your sister that they have let her grow up like this, she must be so unlikeable and lonely... but you can't pay the price for this.

I don't think you are going to feel better until you stand up to your parents. I don't want to write too much about my own situation here but there came a point (my baby's death) at which my family behaved so badly (my mother forcing contact with my sister when I was in a terrible and very fragile state, my sister being cruel etc. both with absolutely no real regard for my needs, only theirs, threatening to cut off contact etc.) that I finally snapped.

It has been incredibly painful as you can imagine and I reached the absolute bottom, where I couldn't be angry, anxious and depressed any more because of them, and I literally had to choose my sanity. There was a row and I told my mother that 'my health, my husband, my family now came first from now on' and I have stuck to it.

I am polite but won't have contact with my sister (that door isn't closed for good so if she wants to change her behaviour...) and I see my parents (who of course didn't end up cutting off contact) but I am very clear in my boundaries (well still learning!) and if they transgress them I will cut them out of my life. Your children need to learn this is ok to do too... as I found that the behaviours I was forced to accept in my family I was then accepting in the rest of my life.

Read Toxic Parents, it is particularly good on what kind of language to use with them and how to be more boundaried. I also had an amazing therapist who supported me.

It is a long and painful road but I feel the best I have felt in my whole life.

I'm not convinced about the "long suffering dad". I think husbands of poorly behaved women get let off the hook too easily. If your dad is the main money earner then he has enabled this situation by not standing up to his wife and daughter. That isn't being long suffering it's choosing that particular life.
You wouldn't admire a woman in an abusive relationship who could change the situation because she was financially independant, but chose not to.
He doesn't have to have his strength drained, he could choose to stand up to them. He could visit you without your mum, married couples don't have to visit their children together.
It sounds as though you like your dad more than your mum, but in not standing up for you in this situation and saying to your mum "you can decide not to visitgeta... and her children if they don't see sister x but I'm staying in contact because she's my daughter and I love her."
Nothing my husband could say would stop me seeing my kids if I wanted to. Married couples can make independant decisions.

Adult narcissists are like vampires: they will take all you can give while giving nothing back, then curse you for running dry and discard you as a waste of their precious time.

It is also essential that you keep emotional distance from narcissists. They're pretty good at maintaining a conventional persona in superficial associations with people who mean absolutely nothing to them, and they'll flatter the hell out of you if you have something they can use or if, for some reason, they perceive you as an authority figure. That is, as long as they think you don't count or they're afraid of you, they'll treat you well enough that you may mistake it for love. But, as soon as you try to get close to them, they'll say that you are too demanding and, if you ever say "I love you," they'll presume that you belong to them as a possession or an appendage, and treat you very very badly right away. The abrupt change from decent treatment to outright abuse is very shocking and bewildering, and it's so contrary to normal experience that I was plenty old before I realized that it was actually my expression of affection that triggered the narcissists' nasty reactions. Once they know you are emotionally attached to them, they expect to be able to use you like an appliance and shove you around like a piece of furniture. If you object, then they'll say that obviously you don't really love them or else you'd let them do whatever they want with you. If you should be so uppity as to express a mind and heart of your own, then they will cut you off just like that, sometimes trashing you and all your friends on the way out the door. The narcissist will treat you just like a broken toy or tool or an unruly body part: "If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off" [Matt. 18:8]. This means you.

Oh Lucy you made me shiver, my worries are minor in comparison to what you have had to go through . But you are very brave to have pressed on with how you are handling things. I hope I can be a tenth as brave as you are.

Have just done a quick read up on Narcissistic stuff - I didn't even know anything about it. Had heard the term, but no idea what it meant. Did a quick online test (treat results with caution, I know, but it gives you a feel) and I come out a Low score, Medium on dependency.

My DH is a brick, if I depend on someone it really is him, as a child I imagine I was quite dependent on my Dad for moral and emotional support. Mum was physically/logistically good, she took me from A to B, made sure I had what I needed etc, but Dad truly loves me, I can see he loved me as a child how I love my own children, no boundaries, no conditions and was always always there for me until bitch features took over to such a great extent. It doesn't lessen his love for me, he is my Dad and I adore him after all, but "she" is now always looming over our relationship.

And yes, I can safely say my Dad is much more on my wavelength, always has been, he understands me and understands all this (mum doesn't even really understand it) but he has just never had the balls to fully straighten it all out once and for all. Of course, in all this, my sister is his DD too, I know I cannot control how I feel about my DC's. I'd kill someone with my bare hands for them, and I suppose that never goes away, perhaps you will always, always just have unsurmountable instinct to be protective of them... I don't know. My DC's are young, but I don't see how I could ever feel differently about them, even if they are a complete reprobate?!? Don't know, Dont know.

My phantom score for my sister had "Very High" on Narcissistic (no surprise!) and Histrionic. "High" on Antisocial and Schitzotypal.

I am absolutely gobsmacked at how NPD traits align to her.. wow.

Sorry, my split personality surfaces AGAIN! Maybe it's ME who needs the personality disorder analysis .

Agggh.

I simply stipped having contact with one of my sisters nearly 10 years ago. It's a tale too long and familiar to repeat but it got to the point where I figured it simply wasn't worth the effort.

I didn't tell her I was cutting off contact. I simply stopped jumping every time she squaked. My siblings, mostly, know I avoid her and let me know if she's expected at a family do. If I really feel there's no avoiding her (weddings etc) I make a point of being polite and non committal and keeping any conversation as short as possible. I'm known for drifting out of the room soon after she appears, though I do it as discretely as possible.

The joke is, I'm not actually sure she's noticed yet. One by one my siblings (we're a large family) have all started to get fed up with her behaviour and 'drop' her too. We are now starting to have a bet on how quickly a room will empty after she enters.

Her husband is a nice bloke and her children are (mostly) fine so she's not obviously segregated at family events. My brother refers to her behaviour as "queening" which always makes me laugh as it's so accurate.

The long and rambling point of which is, I've found my mental health has improved immesurably since I made the decision not to bother with her again. I'm more inclined to go to family occasions now as I have my avoidance techniques honed and I know others feel exactly the same way as me. It's been liberating.

I know how you fill my sister was slagging me off when she was talking to my mum on the phone she didn’t know I was listening As well as she phone when I was in the car. Ha ha ha ha can not stand her she is a cow

I would advise you to step back and step up to objectively consider the dynamics in your family system.

It seems to me that your DF has been happy to throw you under the bus not to indulge your DS but to protect himself from conflict.

He is a very selfish man.

He is now prepared to throw your DCs under the bus for his own same selfish reasons.

I would remove your own family unit from this enmeshed abusive system.

Your DCs don’t need their own mother preoccupied and angry re her parents / sister. YOUR negative mood will be absorbed by your DC and make they sad and anxious.

Choose to be in a better emotional state by only interacting with people who bring you peace, comfort and joy.

Lose the others who don’t bring this.

No need to address it, no need for conflict.

It has all already been said and you have not been heard and your DC are not a priority for your DPs.

They deserve better - just slowly detach in your head. Lower communication. Give them all minimal info and pivot your family life elsewhere.

Drop the rope. Your DP will never change.

Leave your DS to pick up their elderly care and don’t look back.

Enjoy your motherhood and family life without the shadow of your self serving DF. He is the one who nurtured this monstrous dynamic but is expecting you to tend to it.

ZOMBIE thread from over 10 years ago. Why do people do this?

Horrible toxic narcissistic dynamic, enabled by your parents. Worth bearing in mind, OP, that there's never a good healthy person (your dad) married to a toxic unhealthy person (your mum). Healthy people do not stay with toxic people, they walk away very early in the relationship. Your dad has plenty of issues of his own. He's enabled and allowed your sister's behaviour, despite seeing the impact it has had on you. He has also treated you very unfairly by prioritising her financially. He's used emotional blackmail to keep you in line. This is not a healthy, well balanced man.

Because we don't think to check the date of the thread.