Opinions needed - dh who make jokes at my expense to get cheap laughs- when we are out with friends

[PhoenixRising]

Would welcome opinions - you know how when post alcoholic binge you can feel a bit maudlin (lots of wine over dinner last night) and get things out of perspective??? - well perhaps I am, perhaps I am not

Dinner last night at a friends house - 6 of us in total. You will probably laugh and think this is innocuous, but a couple of things that bothered me:

(a) H about me to the others, "I wish dw would cook me dinner occasionally" - cue laughter from all assembled (I can't remember the context - as it happens I do excellent home cooked family meals from scratch)

(b) the women were talking about how we were put off team games at school. I mentioned that being obliged to wear skimpy hockey skirts put me off because I was too intent on adjusting my skirt all the time to cover my knickers, and I would have preferred tracksuit bottoms etc. When I said wearing skimpy skirts had put me off, h piped up with "it would have put me off too" - to appreciative roar of laughter from one of the other men in the party. I should point out that I am 3 stone overweight.

(c) we were talking about how on earth do people have time to do x,y,z and h chipped in with "No, obviously you don't have time" - with a wry smile of his face. Again the others laughed along. - I am a SAHM hence the remark

I don't think he means it maliciously - he is just a bit of a twat, and does self- deprecating humour to get laughs. That's fine when it is self- deprecating and he his inviting people to laugh at him, but I don't appreciate it when he is belittling me for comedy moments.

I have mentioned it to him but he gets defensive and tells me I am being ridiculous. Naturally this isn't the first time he has done this and it causes me to feel

1 - unattractive, undervalued, not respected
2 - hate his guts and want him dead

That's it really...

I would be really upset and hurt. Basically he is putting the desire to make a joke above your feelings .... not very nice.

Agree with the others, explain to him again that this is hurtful to you - and if he does it again, pull him up - in public- every time....

My ex did this constantly and always fended off complaints with " i was only joking / your too sensitive ". I know the differance between a joke and a disguised insult , its not nice , and neither is encouraging others to laugh at you.

The fact he doesnt stop, tells you your being ridiculous and gets defensive says a lot when in fact he should be apologising profuseley. How on earth is he in a position to be defensive ?

I think i would call him on it publicly next time , i wouldnt make jokes back as it will turn into a jokey banter . Perhaps calmly state " I find the hurtfull H ", tough if he doesnt like it and tough if your freinds are uncomfortable.

In fact i wouldhave a chat and insist it stops , if he tells you your being ridiculous and wont listen youve got a much bigger problem.

Quiddity, rather OTT is suggest her marriage is going to end. He's making bad jokes not showing her contempt .

Hi phoenix,

re your comment:-

"Honestly? - comfortable life materially and the dc love him. Fear of loneliness - he can be good company"

Is that why you stay?. None of those are actually good enough reason to stay. Better off alone than to be badly accompanied.

I think he does mean it actually because like all bullies he would not dare do this to anyone else. Would he insult his work colleagues or friends in such a manner, no. You, his wife, are the sole target for all this crap from him.

Damaging lessons are being taught here to your children and your self esteem is taking a battering at his hands. He belittles you also when you rightly complain about his behaviour.

I don't think the DC so much love him as despise him actually. If your DC are girls they could well be learning that this type of behaviour from a man is acceptable to them. Boys within this household could be taught that this is how you speak to 'er indoors. You are teaching them that his treatment of you is currently acceptable to you.

Fran: it's humour designed to belittle in front of others. Being most charitable at the very least it's showing a distinct lack of respect.

Definition of contempt:

1. The feeling or attitude of regarding someone or something as inferior, base, or worthless; scorn.
2. The state of being despised or dishonored; disgrace.
3. Open disrespect or willful disobedience of the authority of a court of law or legislative body.

I'd say that covers what's happening perfectly well, tbh.

(I'm not standing at the side lines saying "leave him leave him" but saying this is a huge red flag for me given past experience and I'd be having serious words).

I think it's dangerous and unhelpful to suggest to a total stranger that their marriage is doomed. OP has stated she doesn't think her dh means to me hurtful. She is asking for advise on how to make him see her point of view. Rubberduck - I have a dictionary thanks!

I didn't have any intention of suggesting the marriage was doomed, was just quoting an expert whose research says that kind of attitude is a sign the marriage is in trouble. That doesn't mean the problem can't be fixed, but it does need some attention--"jokes" like that are corrosive and can eat away at respect, trust and affection.

Op I could have written your post word for word.

This sort of thing is an issue between me and dh too, and I am also a SAHM, (which rightly or wrongly has impacted on my self esteem a bit as I had a good job previously.)

He will say things that are derogatory about my cooking or keeping house, or will exaggerate for effect things about me that then make me look kind of pathetic.

For eg, we have 5 young kids under 10, and I am not that keen on leaving them for more than a couple of days at a time, so he will say oh well, Nikita wont go anywhere, she wont travel beyond our town, (just cos I am a bit nervous flying, I DO fly though, but he would be happy for us to head off to New York for a week and leave all the kids behind with Gp,s.

It all sounds a bit petty now reading it back. But i remember being out for dinner with another couple once, and the other gir's dh was giving out about her but in a playful way, not in a mean way, and she said "ah but you couldnt do without us now could you?" to her dh and mine. Her dh immediately said "oh of course not honey" my dh just raied one eyebrow and said, "god I dunno, i think I could make a pretty good stab at it though"...

He just left the comment at that, never took it back or anything. The other couple were mortified. I dont think I will ever forget that.

Emotional abuse falls into three patterns:-

Aggressive: which includes name-calling, belittling, blaming, accusing, yelling, screaming, making threats, degrading insults or destructive criticism.

Denying: this includes sulking, manipulation, neglecting, not listening, withholding affection and distorting the other?s experience.

Minimising: this can include belittling the effect of something, isolating, accusations of exaggerating or inventing and offering solutions or 'advice'.

It would be a huge red flag to me too im afraid , and so would having to battle to get someone to see my point of veiw.

What's his self esteem like? Often people who belittle others do it cos' they feel a failure in areas of their life.

It's not nice. I think you should calmly unemtionally say "last night you may have noticed I was upset. This was because xyz and when you say xyz it hurts me inside. Are you wanting to hurt me or do you not realise that is the affect it has?

I bet some of those at the dinner were wincing with pain on your behalf.

Agree with Pancakeflipper, the other guest would have been laughting out of awkwardness, not because the dh was remotely funny or accurate in his insults.

I think it does say a lot about his own sense of self. He in a way is slagging off his wife and implying he doesnt deserve a top notch wife. Its horrible, I just would not stand for it.

My dh did this once, some smart remark about me burning food, and I got him for it later. He is quite a shy person, I am not, and i do think it came from a need to appear 'on top' and in control, with people he didnt know too well.

But I still wouldn't stand for it.

re those of you saying it is a red flag - I think you are right. The marriage is not healthy and neither of us 'happy'. Regarding the contempt - in the interest of balance, I guess it would be fair to acknowledge that there are times when I feel contemptuous towards him and doubtless show it (on a one to one though rather than with an audience).

We have an efficient marriage where it works as a partnership (to an extent) and children are secure, but it is a bit of a gilded prison.

If you feel that way, perhaps you need to see a marriage counsellor, to get back on track, if talking to dh has no effect?

Phoenix I had you experiences for years and in the end just laughed along with him/the dc whoever was there. I think partly because some of it was genuinely witty.

However it became very wearing and no matter how many times I would really gently explain how upsetting something may have been he didnt care.He was always far more interested in being funny etc than in whether he was crushing me,certainly the jokes were never about him.

It sounds absurd to think about leaving a marriage over a few "jokes" but its indicative of a whole attitude or it was for me anyway. Jokes about about how many coffees you've had (I was aSAHM too)and yes I had the cooking one too. I think Rubber and Quiddity are closer to the mark than ops who have no experience of this.

Phoenix your last sentence was my marriage this time last year but my joker left and nobody speaks to me like he did anymore and its hard at times but I have my self esteem back now and I am happier

my ex used to do that. It was just a small part of the emotional abuse I went through.
Talk to your dh about it.

Putting people down is one of the easiest way to get a laugh for some men, especially those with no comic ability. Agree with posters who say that people now probably think you have a great sense of humour and that it is a bit of a game between you and DH. Tell him he is being a rude idiot and that if it happens again you will come up with some comments of your own.

Thanks for sharing your direct experiences with me - it all helps. If I was a more decisive person with the courage of my own convictions I suspect I would have seen a divorce lawyer before now- but it just seems a huge, scary life changing step...I baulk at it

Also Phoenix

My exh never offset this behaviour with compliments or praise either publicly or privately.

Same for me Buzzing just part of a pattern of emotional abuse really

Phoenix I can see that and I am now glad he left me as I doubt I would have found it in myself to leave because my confidence and esteem were at rock bottom.

Coming up with comments of your own may sound ok but I never wanted to behave as he did and dont really see that as a solution at all.

I am guessing there may be other stuff going on Phoenix for you to be thinking about leaving. These last 8 months have been a real rollercoaster for me but gradually realising the extent of his disrespect and selfishness has left me in doubt that I am better off on my own than in that marriage

Sorry which I had positive advice

left me in no doubt

Atilla the Meerkat says "I don't think the DC so much love him as despise him actually."

Unless you've met these children, how can you possibly presume something like that?

If the OP says they love him, she's probably in the best position to know.

Well, it is positive that you have come to the realisation that you are now better off. Perhaps I might find the same too if I ever took the necessary steps