Should we accept this apology if we know the person doesn't mean it?

[DisturbingMachines]

DH and I fell out with my mum two years ago over something we felt very strongly about, we, and our two DC (mostly) haven't had any contact with her since.

There was a flurry of heated emails and texts for about a month after the initial row, and when we felt it was just going round and round in circles we stopped and just ignored anything she sent.

During those emails/texts it became apparent to us that she was trying to manipulate (essentially) me by

-Using my Christian faith to make me agree with her i.e. quoting 'honour thy father and mother' at me, and 'isn't Christianity all about forgiveness?' which I found hypocritical as she is contemptuous of religion.

-Using my past mental health problems (when I've been OK for at least the past 10 years) to insinuate that I don't agree with her because I'm mentally ill i.e. 'you've got a problem and you need help', or 'you're losing the plot'

She did see DD1 through my dad (they're divorced) at first, but because she started accusing him of trying to sabotage her seeing DD1 (when he was enabling her to do it) we said we didn't want DD1 to get involved any more. Recently she turned up at dads house and saw DD1 behind our backs, putting DD1 in a terrible position as she knew we didn't want her to see her, so I take from this that mum thinks her rights as a grandparent outweigh ours as parents, which I don't agree with.

She thinks we don't let DD1 see her to 'punish' her, but we see it as trying our best to keep DD1 out of it, not always possible of course but as much as we can.

We've also found out that she's given copies of the emails we sent initially to a solicitor to give to DD1 after she's (mum) died so DD1 can see what was said. This I find to be very difficult to comprehend for someone who says they love their grand-daughter, to put such a responsibility onto her to read them and, as I see it, to try to ruin mine and DD1s relationship from 'beyond the grave'.

She sent two emails to me recently saying she doesn't regret what the initial argument was about, but she regrets how she went about it. But at the same time she sent a text to my dad saying 'she's [me] obviously still got [mental health] problems and needs help and everyone I've told agrees with me'.

We always said if she said something along the lines of what she actually wrote in her email we would try to build bridges because she was just so angry before, but we're not sure how to feel knowing that she's still coming out with the same shit trying to 'win' the argument by essentially squashing me and who I am.

I really apologise for the length of this, it's hard to know what to write as I'm sure you're aware these things get a tad complicated, but that's the kind of crux of it, I don't want to drip feed, but it's hard to anticipate what posters are going to pick up on.

I know we're only seeing one side of the story, and in some aspects she has been a good mother to me, but to be frank I haven't missed her and don't mind no contact, but it's the DC I feel for, she hasn't even met DD2.

I/we just find it incredibly hard to get over what's happened (especially the solicitors emails) but every time we get to a point of 'everything's calmed down, should we make contact' some other ranting email gets sent by her and we're back to square one.

I'd be really grateful if you could give me your take on this, we're really at a loss now.

Yes Attila, perhaps you're right that it's affected her more than I thought, but I do admire her for her care of me when she wasn't afforded the same by her parents.

Sorry that you know what I mean Cargirl with your ex-MIL, thank you for posting.

Mummiehunnie, I think it's the assumptions you make and how you insist you are right in things about myself and my family that I know are just not true.

For example, I haven't told her where she can live, just how we felt about it, neither of us have mental health problems as you have suggested, and DH and I do have the right to say who does and does not see our children.

I apologise if you find it offensive, but you do seem a bit prickly in your posts to me and I wouldn't feel comfortable with that level of judgement on a thread I sought help from.

Mummiehunnie I find the hectoring tone and content of your posts on this thread completely bizarre and uncalled for.

I cannot find any evidence in her posts that the OP is playing 'games' or that she is having mental health problems (but can't admit it), neither do I think that the fact that she posts 'we' rather that 'I' is evidence of the fact that there is something wrong in her relationship with her DH. Have you thought that perhaps it is you that is projecting and bringing your own issues into this thread?

OP, I understand completely why you felt so uncomfortable about your mother wanting to move so close by. She was testing your boundaries when you had already made it clear how you felt about the whole situation - my guess is that she does this quite often. Once you said 'no' she then escalated the situation to try to shame and guilt you into getting her own way.

Don't worry about other people who - having no knowlege about how dysfunctional families work - try to make you feel guily for not putting up with unreasonable behaviour from blood relations.

If you feel your daughter can have a 'normal' relationship with your mother without your mother trying to manipulate her or use her against you then by all means build bridges. If, however, you feel that her behaviour is more grief at not getting her own way rather than grief at not seeing your daughter then do yourself a favour and keep well away. You sound perfectly sane, sensible and reasonable to me so go with your gut instinct.

'If, however, you feel that her behaviour is more grief at not getting her own way rather than grief at not seeing your daughter then do yourself a favour and keep well away.'

Yes Celtic, that's it exactly!

It's not about her 'apology', it's about her motivations.

The way I think about it is that the evidence of her actions say that all she's doing is tantruming because we've had the balls to say something we know full well she wouldn't like.

Leaving the emails at the solicitors, sending angry emails still, 'discrediting' me to other people in the family (some of whom I never usually hear from have sent lovely emails saying they can't understand her mindset and that they don't want to lose contact with us), don't say to me that she wants to see our DC.

Why leave it so long else to send the emails? If she really wanted to see them the emails would have been different, as it were they were all 'woe is me', 'look at what I have to put up with' and trying to garner sympathy.

If that is her motivation for carrying on, that means it's never going to be resolved, if she knew this she would drag us through court to get access, which she's already looked at doing, she'd do it even if she thought she wouldn't win.

Could I ask what your advice would be please as to how we should tackle it from here? Keep on ignoring her? She did move to our town in the end (not to that house though) and I do see her around and about.

I'm not quite sure what the issue here is.
If you want to see your mother see her, if you don't don't. If you want to just see her once every couple of months do that.
Agree all the "we" stuff isn't helping. Decide what you want to do. It doesn't have to be daily contact and her living round the corner or nothing.
If you contact her and she starts bombarding you with phone calls and demands for visits just tell her you prefer to just see her occasionally as otherwise you will argue.
You sound as though you don't want to see her, but are fretting about this.

I think you're right 2rebecca, I'm worrying that the situation may be permanent and I'll not see her again, and she wont see her GC.

Looking back on the thread, I think at the start I was wondering whether anything of the relationship could be salvaged, but now I'm wondering what the implications are of us never having any contact with her again.

I've thought about what would happen if she died, would/could I go to her funeral? How would I feel knowing I'd cut her out of our lives? I don't hate her, it's worse than that I think because I don't feel anything for her, even though we used to be close, and that does make me sad.

I really genuinely wish it was a case of see her if you want to, don't see her if you don't want to.

It's like I can't come to terms with the finality of not seeing her, but at the same time I don't want to see her.

It's very confusing.

Disturbing, it is so lovely to see your thoughts on this with the use of "I" in your languauge, you may be able to explore this subject further in statley homes!

Hello again mummie, this is actually mine and DHs thread, it's about a situation we have together, it's about our situation and not just me.

When it's appropriate I use the words I/me, if it's something that concerns us both I will use we/us.

I'm not sure why you are so hung up on how I'm writing my posts as I feel I'm expressing myself very clearly.

It seems to bother you that I wont acknowledge you to be right in this matter, and you dont seem comfortable with me having my own opinion on the matter, which is ironic given the subject of the OP.

I'm sorry you feel compelled to 'waste' your time, as you said, on the difficult situation we are in.

I'd prefer not to explore the subject further on the stately homes thread thank you.

And just to clarify mummie, the reasons I used the words 'I' on the post to 2rebecca, it was because I was talking about how I felt about my mother and if she died.

DM similarly I have some (very minor) issues with my current MIL, DH has his issues with his Mum, we both have some joint issues with her.

My current MIL is lovely, means a lot to me but there are still "issues" and some are joint some are individual so I completely understand the "we" and the "I" contexts.

One thing to consider is that you do have the option to have contact with your Mum again and stop it if you feel the negatives outweigh the benefits.

Thanks cargirl.

I think if contact was made and it didn't work out and we severed it again there'd be a lot of eye rolling and tutting that 'they're playing silly buggers again' (and of course this would be put down to me being mentally unstable), and the other thing is that it would confuse and hurt DD1 to see her and then everything change again.

It's such a risk isn't it?

But kids have people drifting in and out of their lives all the time. I live several hours from my family so the kids got used to seeing them and then not seeing them for ages, and I have some good friends who also live miles away who we visit annually.
My kids cope with this. I lived miles from my grandparents and didn't find seeing them and then not seeing them traumatic. I just accepted some people you just saw occasionally.
If you're not seeing your mum you aren't going to witness the eye rolling etc anyway.
I think you are building this into more than it has to be and thinking too far ahead.

Jesus mummiehunnie. Such relentless attention-seeking.

@ MissAnne

Thanks for your post.

I don't know if my situation rings any bells but I grew up in a house where nothing was spelt out. I was expected to 'know' and 'should have thought' if I did anything wrong. I was also told to 'do as I say not as I do' and 'you should have known'. None of the issues at home were to be taken outside (implied). I grew up to be overly analytic and hypervigilant. And I tend to listen to what people say rather than what they do.

This makes me a fantastic friend to people who are struggling and enormously forgiving of people even when their behaviour hurts me enormously. I tend to think that any problem can be solved simply by thinking about it hard enough, creatively enough etc etc. I think people are basically good, that bad behaviour happens for a reason. If I can work out the reason, then I can forgive the behaviour. Or perhaps I don't have to challenge it, which, as a child, would have been dangerous.

It's been a very painful lesson to learn that many people are not benignly challenged but actively choose to behave in ways that serve them at the expense of others. I have had to learn to look at behaviour rather than words. I am struggling to avoid making friends who 'take' but never 'give'.

I read your post as an attempt to make sense of behaviour that is non-sensical. I think you are attempting to rationalise and normalise behaviour that is neither of these things. I also think you are failing to put your own needs high enough on the list. It is okay to put your needs first. It is not abusive or manipulative but can feel 'wrong' and I wonder whether this is why you hang on to the relationship with your mother.

FWIW I think it is a strength to be able to answer such strongly worded responses with such dignity but I think it is also frustrating to feel unheard. I saw a counsellor for a while and the best I can say for her is that it did help me clarify how I really felt as I disagreed with practically everything she said

I'm not being facetious, but when you have grown up having to think about everything quite so hard just to survive, it takes a really good counsellor to help unravel it. She wasn't it.

I think to have been able to discuss the issues with your DH and reach a conclusion that you are both happy with shows maturity. His life experiences are different to yours and yet you have come to a common understanding. This is the 'secure base' which you lacked as a child and this is what needs to be protected. I wonder if your mother feels threatened by you now having something she failed to give you.

Hi secretskill, there is something in the 'your mother feels threatened', we have a happy, calm marriage which she never had, and I did say to her at the time that it felt like by moving so close she wanted a piece of that, which rightly or wrongly I didn't want to risk her upsetting the balance of what we have.

Not that it's so fragile it wouldn't take much to upset it, but her close proximity/manipulative nature would be very intrusive.

We definately, definately don't feel heard by her, and that says that what we feel is insignificant and of no consequence. If she could have just aknowledged that how we felt mattered none of this would have happened. It seems such a waste.

I like the way you talk about your counselling experience it isn't for everyone, perhaps another counsellor might be able to offer you something that could help?