Moving out and leaving the children

[PostagePaid]

I am cripplingly depressed. I am being treated and am improving slowly but it is a long process with frequent backsliding. I had a breakdown last year (the third in my life), and ended up an inpatient.

My husband doesn't love me anymore. He has been filling the role of carer for a long time and my behaviour when 'up' or having an episode has killed our relationship. He kept trying and trying and forgiving me almost everything because I was ill (I cheated on him, had blackouts and didn't come home for days, self-harmed, drank, took drugs).

I am a SAHM almost by default; I haven't been able to hold down a job for years. Our DCs are 8, 4 and 18 months. H's salary pays for some childcare but we hold it in reserve for when I am having a bad episode. We don't qualify for WTC. DC2 is at nursery part-time.

I need to leave, I think. Perhaps permanently or perhaps until I can get myself more stable.

H is terrified of involving social services (asking for care), as he believes with some justification that they will seek to remove the children.

His suggestion is that I move out. I can then throw myself on the mercy of CMHS - I will qualify for incapacity benefit and others too probably, and housing benefit and stuff. He thinks I should stay nearby and see the children regularly, perhaps daily, provided I am having a good day.

DC1 is massively affected; wary of me, always 'reading' me, treading on eggshells. DC2 is beginning to go the same way. It is heartbreaking. I am doing them such harm.

H will either go part-time at work or get an au pair or similar.

I asked if he would do that and I could stay, but he says - firmly but with apparently genuine sadness - that no, he wants me away from the DCs and the house until I am more stable. There are things perhaps we could do - but he doesn't want to, he wants me to leave.

I am devastated and, bizarrely, worried about what people might think. But increasingly I think this might be what is needed and best for the DCs. I am quite lucid today but that is at the expense of being able to do anything, anything at all. Last week H came home to find DC1 trying to change DC3's nappy, having already made sandwiches for them all.

It can't go on. But will society judge me even more harshly for leaving my kids?

Oh postage this is one of the saddest things I've ever read on here. How brave you are to consider making such a decision, and how heartbreaking that it's come to it for you.

Do you live anywhere near a Priory clinic, or similar? They are fantastic at treating depression, and you can get referrals through the NHS.

Well I wouldn't judge you. Not for a moment. I don't quite know what to say except that you clearly love your children very much and if you and your H think this is what needs to happen then make it happen.

The only thought that occurs is that your H can afford to go part time or get an au-pair, can you not employ a live-in someone now who will both keep an eye on you and care for the DCs?

First, I'm so sorry that you are going through this. It sounds like hell.

Personally, I think you shouldn't be worrying what society thinks of you, and just do what you feel in your heart is best for your children. Then, at least you will know you are being the best mother you can to them.

I can't imagine you getting anything other than empathy from anyone who knows the situation. Those who don't, have no grounds to comment.

Wishing you all the best. I hope you can find a way forward.

Depression is so so devastating, and can be so damaging to relationships long term. I hope you get some good care. x

hi thatsnotmyfruitshoot, thankyou. I was actually in one of the Priorys previously (before DC3). I became convinced I was better and discharged myself. It would be difficult to get another referral through the NHS I think. My GP is very patient but is getting frustrated with me. She thinks I need a longer period as an inpatient and has said I should have been sectioned last time I had an episode (I went voluntarily however so avoided it). I would be prepared to be an inpatient again though yes. If I had my own place and was an outpatient that would also be productive I think, I know it is possible to go to a clinic daily. We can't consider that at the moment because of the DCs.

Hassled, I asked him that (I did mention that up there somewhere in the wall of text), but he wants me to leave. He thinks me being around the DCs is damaging them. He is right I think. He won't try anything like that until I am more stable and has said that he probably won't want me to move back in as his wife in the future. If we had an au pair the DCs would still see me in my bad periods. And really, he doesn't want to do any of that - go P/T, get an au pair - with me around.

Sorry - re-reading, I saw you had thought about that.

I think your conclusion is the right one, sadly. You need to focus every effort on a) getting yourself better and b) not damaging the children. When a) is done, you can be sure that b) won't happen.

TeeBee, thankyou so much. What lovely things to say.

DC1 is being bullied (maybe that is too strong a word), about me at school. I can only assume the comments are coming via the other parents if you see what I mean. I have done some awful things like collecting the DCs from school/nursery while obviously 'altered'. At DC1's old school I was abusive to a teacher and DC1 missed lots of school last time I had a breakdown as I wouldn't go outside (or to school), and lied to DH about it. One of the reasons we moved school was to get away from that history but then I had my most recent breakdown and it started again. So there is judgement and it is affecting the DCs. I can't stand the thought of them being asked to explain me to their peers, if you see what I mean.

Though their mummy living somewhere else will be strange and invite comment too I suppose.

Can you be 100% sure he will let you move back in when you are more stable?

Sounds like your children and husband would be better off if you wern't living with them, especially when you say that SS involvement may mean the children are put into foster care.

Forget about how other people may see you, you need to put the welfare of your children first.

No TheCrackFox. In fact at the moment he says he can't imagine a time when our relationship is back to one between husband and wife as so much has happened.

But I could share custody. I know H would like me to be around the DCs a lot - provided I was stable. If I lived very close by (easy walking distance), I could see lots of them without being their main carer.

Who knows what would happen in the future but I think the love has gone forever and I cannot really blame DH for that. He has kept trying and trying in the face of some awful things.

PostagePaid, I am so sad to read your post. My mother left when I was 9, and though depression played a part, I think, it was not in the same league.

Reading your post, please do be very careful with how your husband is playing this. You say he doesn't love you any more. If you leave, is it possible he will use this against you at a later date when you are well again? I only ask because in my family, my father says mum left for good, and my mother says she left for a while to get her head clear, and he told her eventually that she was not to come back (and there was nothing she could do about that).

What I'm saying is, is it possible to get a clearer view of how your dh thinks things are going to go? What is his plan for when you get better? Is he expecting you back? You need to be clear about all this. Once you have left the home voluntarily, it is harder to get back in if he doesn't wish you to.

Also, your oldest will be able to understand a bit about this. It's important that you and your dh talk to him/her and explain that you're not well and need some time away, and keep him/her updated. This was sadly missing from those months when my family was going through something similar(ish) and I think could have made quite a bit of difference to me. I know it's hard because you want to protect your child from painful things.

I really wish you all the very best with your treatment and the future with your family.

postage I think you are very courageous to be facing up to all of this and posting on here, you should be very proud.

I feel very torn but I have to say that IMO it sounds as though everyone would be better off if you moved out of the house. That sounds harsh but as your DH says - you could still live locally and would still see your DC on 'good' days. From what you say about your DC it seems as though your behaviour is really affecting them and therefore the only correct thing to do is to remove yourself from their lives until you are better and are able to be a positive influence in their lives. I can't imagine how difficult that would be to do but I think you know it's for the best.

Lots of parents split up for lots of reasons and I realy don't think people will judge you for 'abandoning' your DC. If I knew you, I would think you were behaving very responsibly by taking yourself out of a potentially very damaging situation and protecting your DC from further harm. I think you should be applauded for doing so.

UnePrune thankyou for your post. I am so sorry about what happened to you.

My husband wants me nearby. He has said he will help with private rent if it comes to it, if I can stay nearby. We live in an area with a lot of social housing etc. He thinks I could qualify for housing benefit etc and be in a small flat within walking distance.

"When I get better" is difficult as we thought I was better before and I relapsed, and again. He will always be suspicious and watchful I think. I doubt he will want me to be the DCs main carer for many years (until they are older).

If I cannot be sure I will be stable (and I can't - I 100% believed I was fully recovered after the last breakdown and the most recent one seemingly came from nowhere though H could see the signs apparently), it isn't fair for me to live with DCs I suppose.

Lots of people have shared custody but it's usually the man who lives apart from the family. I think H sees that as our situation. It is difficult to get him to commit to anything as he says he can't know how things will be until he sees me become more stable.

DC1 understands too much already, I will make sure to keep them in the loop. DC1 has shown very adult/mature understanding of all this (which breaks my heart as that should not be necessary). So we will discuss things in an honest fashion.

Yes novicemama I think I know I have to do this. It seems the only way to salvage any kind of relationship with the DCs. I am their mother and I love them so, so much. It is so hard to think that the best thing I can do for them is not be with them all the time, but things can't stay as they are, even I can see that.

Maybe in time they will realise this was an act of love and not of abandonment. I am so scared they will think I don't love them.

Sod what society thinks!

This is about you and your family and whats best for you all. Please, you have so much else to worry about, the opinions of outsiders are irrlelvant. I can absolutely empathise with your concern but you have to put that to one side - none of those people who might judge matter or care, so they should not matter to you, you should not care about their opinions.

It sounds to me like you dh is right and that for your children, sadly, the best thing for them would be for you to live elsewhere, they need stability and you need time and space to make you your priority.

They will have one resident parent and another who they will see (i assume?) regularly. They will be in a situation that many, many children are in.

I am not in your position but on a practical level I am a single parent and my childs father lives elsewhere but is still very involved in his life. It all works very well and to all intents and purposes (re ds) we are still a family, and you will be too, very much so.

You both sound like lovely parents and while he may not love you anymore (and perhaps that is only how he feels at the moment, while he is in effect your carer) I get from your post that he still cares for you? I hope that that is the case because mutual respect and some level of friendship will help ensure that changing your residntial set-up works out well and is a positive for all involved, especially the children.

I wish you all the best. It sounds like you have struggled for a very long time to cope, but now maybe you just need to take some time for yourself.

FWIW, I've never doubted that my mother loves us.
I appreciate that she was at a difficult time in her life and in her case, didn't know what to do for the best. She then made some really poor choices (eg moving away to the middle of nowhere so our only option for seeing her was a 4h journey alone by train). So I do have abandonment issues, but not because of the initial separation. You sound a lot more sorted than she ever was. I really hope you can make this work (and a big part of that is hoping that your dh is trustworthy, too).

Postage, you are amazingly strong and selfless. It must an unbelievably heartbreaking decision to have to make. I'm glad that your husband is being so supportive and that you are both able to keep the children's best interest as the focal point. Families take all forms, yours seems one that is strong despite huge burdens being placed on you. You'll be in my prayers. x

I agree with uneprune about being cautious about leaving and the implications for you long term for custody etc.

I too think that worrying about how the wider world sees you is a waste of your energies, people will always judge and have opinions. The only people's opinions in the long term who matter are those of the DC and I think your argument for leaving are compelling. My instinct says no, you should not leave your children but that said, I have no idea of how bad this is, I have never been in this situation or suffered depression so who am I to give my opinion.

I do think however that taking good advice maybe from a mental health charity rather than SS might help. I do not think you and the H should strike a deal privately and you leave, I do think it is worthwhile involving others to give some perspective and to provide a framework for your family to keep communication open and for your to keep your relationship with your children on as even a keel as possible.

Mostly I wanted to say how brave you must be to even post about this and invite comment - it is a contentious subject and I really hope you can recover and receive all the help you deserve. Although you are unwell, I can feel how unselfish you are trying to be and how much you are trying to help your children. You clearly love them very much and want to do the right thing. Please also extend that level of care to yourself and please seek some help - perhaps you can admit yourself again rather than waiting for a crash and then being sectioned - attempting to take control of this can only be good for you. My thoughts are with you.

You will still be their mum, they will still know that you love them.

They will just get to see you at your better moments - whereas at the moment there's no filter, you're all under one roof and you cant prevent your ups and downs and therefore cant shield you children from them.

In an ideal world they'd have a healthy and happy you under their roof, but as thats not possible the next best thing is close, regular contact with you (knowing you are just around the corner for instance) when you are at your best.

They will know you love them if you show them you do. My son is in no doubt that his father loves him with all his heart - he just sleeps somewhere else, that all!

Talk to them, make sure they feel involved in what is happening so there are no surprises, no shocks etc. They will adapt - imo what will help this work and help the children feel safe and secure with the changes are; seeing a respectful, consistent relationship between you and dh (v v important that, I think), being kept informed of whats happening, and as much access to you as is possible.

I so feel for you. It sounds as though this is rock bottom. Maybe it's now time to listen to the professionals and then do anything you can to get well. Which means taking the advice you're given, however much you might not want to.

Far better a medium-term spell as an inpatient which gains you better long-term prospects of having a functional life, than carrying on in this state.

Thinking of you and wishing you a full recovery from this horrible illness.

My goodness, if ever anyone needed support then it's you. Who have you got to support you in RL? Who do you trust? Sounds like your husband is quite rightly preoccupied with the welfare of the children. Is there anyone else there for you?

So sad to read this situation you are in. Is it manic depression you are suffering from. If it is, i wonder if a stint in hospital to get you on an even keel will help to see things clearer, before moving out.

You say your husband hasnt loved you as his wife for a long time, but the youngest is only 18months, so its not that long since you were creating another life. That would give me some hope that, with the right help, some work could be done to rebalance your marriage.

I dont think moving out just yet is the best thing, at least until you are more settled and the depression is under control. Decisions like that need to be made very carefully.

I have no experience of depression but i do have lots of other illness and lack of support. I feel for you, i really do.

What about family, are they able to come to your home and help with the kids while you get treatment?

THis is a dreadful situation for all of you but I do think your H is right. It's not your fault you are ill but it probably would be better for your DC if you were not living in the house while you are so unstable - your H is putting them ahead of you, which while it is horrible for you, is probably the right thing for him to do. Inpatient care may well be the best option for getting you better.
Please don;t blame yourself for your illness. It's not your moral failing or your fault that you have a severe mental illness, sometimes shit just happens nd has to be dealt with.

Well, I'm going to be blunt, sorry, you seem more worried about "what people will think", than about the welfare of your children.
Why is your H worried about social services, what have you done?

As the eldest child of a mother with bipolar (never diagnosed but as an adult and a GP), I can clearly see it now. It bloody stinks, I was damaged forever, as were my borther and sister. The treading on eggshells, worried what would happen next, the inconsistency, the neglect, the worry about younger sibs, yes making sandwhiches, changing nappies, your poor poor eldest DC1, my heart just broke for him. Because that was me 30 years ago!

I am guessing your H is not making this suggestion lightly, I suggest you put your DC first.

FWIW, I never doubted my mother loved us, but it wasnt enough, it really wasnt. We have a good relationship now, and she even looks after my Dc alone (occasionally and for short periods). We sometimes talk jokingly about the past, like when she forgot to pick me and my brother up. I was 8, he was 6. She laughed. I remember it with utmost terror but trying to keep it together for my brother, wondering how to contact my father (in the days before mobile phones. It got dark before she finally came, its not a good memory.

I moved out of the marital home and left my dc's. For very different reasons to you. My xh was physically and mentally abusive. I went for legal seperation as he wouldn't accept I'd had enough, but he still refused to leave and upped the mental abuse by turning the boys against me and leaving me a mental wreck. After my parents had to call am ambulance as I'd collapsed with breathing problems, I never went back there. My youngest ds came to live me shortly after but ds1 decided to stay with his df. I have a great relationship with both of them now (9 years on), and they're both aware of what their father is like!!

Leaving your children is one of the hardest things you can do, but you're doing it for their own good, and for your good. People do judge, but what the hell do they know about your situation?? So ignore them. I think you need to concentrate on getting yourself well. You are ill, it's not your fault! Yes, in the future, your older children may remember what happened, but you will be there to tell them that it was for everyone's good.

These people are a brilliant source of support I found. There was also a thread on the Relationships board of MSE of mothers apart from their children.

PostagePaid - How very sad and difficult

My mother had chronic schizophrenia and I know I was left in awful situations e.g. running around amongst broken glass with no nappy. I was adopted by family but sadly did not have the regular contact I should have. I could and should have seen her more in her lucid spells. It is a long story as to why I didn't which I won't go into here but at the age of 31 I still grieve for her (she is dead now unfortunately) and wish I could have known her better

I suppose what I am trying to say is that I think you are very brave and obviously love your kids. I know my mother loved me despite her illness. If it is best for your kids that you are not their main carer okay but it will not be best for them (or your mental health) if contact is severed completely or there is not enough contact

Please, please seek legal advice as well and promise me that no matter what you decide you will see your children when you are stable and lucid and they will always have a realtionship with you and know who you are. Good luck I am thining of you