Is Mumsnet healthy for relationships?

[Footlong]

I am starting to wonder. The plethora of anguished threads, all seem to get similar responses. Mainly around dengrating the husband or male partner. This is usually based on the one sided initial complaint of the thread starter.

All to quick the advice to 'leave the husband' is trotted out, and the original posters views are validated and sympathy given. But isnt this a symptom of the internet age? We only hear one side of the story, we dont know if the facts are fairly presented, we dot know the people involved, if they are even facts at all! But of course we cant accuse people of lying, when in we are in reality ignorant.

I have actually got quite annoyed with some of the anti-male advice given on here, that encourages destruction of a family from the safety of the internet. In isolation this advice might be valid, but given the one sided nature of the complaint, I can but wonder if people arent just validating someones bad behaviour dressed up as being a victim.

I started a new thread on this because I dont want to accuse anyone directly, this is just a general observation. In times past people got this sort of advice from friends and family. Friends and family know the people involved and can often see both sides more accurately and possibly tell the complainant a few home truths and point out that often (not always obviously!) it takes 2 to create a realtionship disaster zone.
Our anonymous faces on the internet validating peoples decision to seperate a family unit is a very dangerous thing to do when we only hear one side.

But what can you do? Refuse to give people advice or support? Call them a liar? No... it is a conundrum. Possibly the only way is to sometimes try and read between the lines and question.

Apart from the occasional post I have stopped reading and posting on the Relationships forum. Generally I find my posts are out of synch with most- maybe because I am older and have a different perspective.

I have asked for help before and found it not very helpful, as it was impossible to give every detail needed so people could really see the true situation.

A lot of posters have their own baggage as stated by the OP which colours every response. They respond in a very personal way without often seeing another perspective.

One particular comment which always annoys me is "Kick him out".
My DH and I have had our ups and downs but he would never leave at my request- nor could I make him.

The same advice keeps on coming- usually end one relationship before you begin another, affairs are always wrong and so on.

These attitudes are very black and white, and real life is not like that.

I wish mn was around when i was young and silly and wasted years and energy on bastards. The problem with friends and family is that you usually don't tell them all the details (embarrasment?) . Most posters here say they havn't told their family and friends all the details.

My mum stays here at the moment and she talks about her friends/cousins/old neighboors. Blimey 9 out of 10 had a nervous breakdown and 5 of them are in psychatric units These are women in their '60s who 'tried to keep the family together', 'for the sake of the children' . None of the children wanted this.

I think 'distruction of the family' is used -even today- to cover personal insecurities, fear of being alone and the mentality that being single=failure.

I disagree that most posters say 'leave him'. I think most try to find labels and 'strageties' (ignore him and find a hobby). That's what my mum's friends did.

In many cases i think some OPs use their children as excuse for their co-dependency and fear of being single. In these cases i think is good that some posters say 'leave' and point out the damage to dc's self esteem (there is currently a thread like this which i dont read anymore because i find irritating)

"a fuckhole with cleaning attachments"

i think posters are recognizing traits from past abusive relationships and are keen to stop it happening to someone else.

Footlong "And destruction of a family is a bad thing."

You have no idea do you???

As it happens, the "destruction" of my family was a bloody good thing. It saved my soul, totally and utterly, it brought my precious DD1 back to her usual right self (not a miserable suicidal 7yr old :(), it allows my DD2 to be happy and safe, it saved me from financial ruin. There was nothing bad about the "destruction of my family"!

As it happens, it was pretty much over by the time I found MN,but I wish I'd found it earlier, it would have saved me years and years of abuse and heartache.

I never ever knew it was abuse, I believed it was me, I believed everything XH did to me. In fact it wasn't MN who told me it was abusive and to leave, it was the very kind, patient policeman who came the night my XH tried to strangle me. But you know sure it was just my side of the story, and I was just a hysterical female wasn't I

"i think posters are recognizing traits from past abusive relationships and are keen to stop it happening to someone else."

Absolutely.

Generally I find my posts are out of synch with most - maybe because I am older and have a different perspective.

This is awfully patronising, purplepeony.

how is it patronising to say that MAYBE due to age differences, her perspective might be different?

she didn't say it was a better, more informed perspective nor is that implied.

I'm not at all sure PP is the eldest of this forum's regulars. There are more than several 45+. I remember your posts, PP, and am sorry you're still stuck.

That's not because of your age.

(Grace: 55)

Another vote in favour of the Relationships board here. I have been reading and posting occasionally for 18 months as has my DH. I have had to name change frequently and have several threads deleted. This because each time he tracked down my threads he would get upset.

We have had serious problems and it took DH posting pretending to be a wronged wife (he reversed our genders) for me to get a grip on what was happening.
I was the abusive partner, I had an EMA, we were struggling to keep our marriage going and DH was taking all the shit I dished out. After some bracing advice to DH to "tell the fucker to fuck off" I realised even if he wouldn't tell me, I needed to leave for both our sakes.

This was not done lightly. I have been to counselling for a year and we went jointly for 8 months before I took the decision.
I moved out of our home three days ago and am feeling very shaky still. I am working hard on changing my behaviour but without MN I would still be in denial thinking my marriage was okay. RL friends have no idea of the realities of our marriage.
So keep posting folks, and PP don't stop, you are appreciated by us mature ladies!

How fascinating, whenallelse. I hope things sort themselves out for you.

Just a word about the Narcissm thing.

Still, still, even on just a good discussion thread like this, people have belittled and questioned the idea of NPD (or other personality disorders) existing, or claimed that the term narcissist is bandied about too quickly.

eg, Here is Beethoven from very early on:

"I'm particularly uncomfortable with some of the accusations of narcissism and NPD. By definition, a narcissist would see no fault on their part, and we cant label some DH or DP a narcissist based on one viewpoint."

FWIW I think MN has the most concentrated number of women who have suffered at the hands of this hideous disorder, anywhere in the UK (and beyond).

For me, on this one issue alone, it has been worth its weight in gold. We have been able to share books, websites, personal experiences and most importantly of all, give each other fantastic advice and support about dealing with partners who have this personality disorder - or dealing with the personal fallout once we have been discarded.

That aside, I too wish that I had found MN way earlier in my relationship and marriage to my exH. He displayed classic behaviours which I simply did not know anything about..I was very much of the 'poor bloke, I can fix him' type.

I shall never forget, when my exh tried to nick all our money and board a plane to thailand the first time round, I was warned not to leave the house empty while I went to see a solicitor. I thought that was a bit dramatic, but MNetters were 100% correct: he broke in while I was out.

And when he came back from the airport that first time and I told everyone on MN that all was ok again and he was just having a stressful time, several wise women said 'you will be back on here. He is a shit make no mistake.Get your papers in order and freeze your bank account' Again, they were 100% right. He left again for good, 2 weeks later leaving me ten grand overdrawn.

Thanks to MN and Women's Aid, I have changed beyond all recognition from that person now.
Changed for the better of course - and therefore am able now (I hope) to be a strong and good parent to my wonderful little boy.

Also, MNetters got me through those horrendous first few months when I couldn't sleep, eat, or cope at all. People like tribpot, geordieminx, hoochie, thumbwitch, quattro, gettingagrip, and others, saved my life.

MN has its faults but they are more than outweighed by the invaluable, loving support and concrete, practical advice given to those of us who are going through real horror.

tortoise- you jump to conclusions. I said my persepctive might be different- not better, or worse. If you think I implied they were better or always right, that says more about your attitudes to age than mine.

Grace- thanks for your kind thoughts, butI didn't say I was still stuck, just that I had not found the boards especially helpful. I'm the same age as you BTW.

See what I mean, LOL! 2 posts in reply to my one, both of which show an element of misunderstanding.

I haven't read the whole thread but I am at home today so I am going to.

PURPLE PEONY has given me advice under a different name that sent me in a direction that has made a significant difference to my (future, long-term) health.

So I am putting this under her post and hopes she reads it.

Mumsnet is brilliant.

I agree with the OP that advice to "leave him" is doled out far too often and too quickly.

Problems can have much better solutions than just running away.

I agree that some posters are very quick to say 'leave him'. I posted something when I was cross with my then-DP for being a bit useless and got quite a lot of lectures about how his behaviour was clearly abusive, he was never going to change, it was a sign that everything was going down the pan. Most of these people dole out exactly the same advice whatever the thread, I'm afraid.

But, I don't know that it matters. Precisely because I wasn't in an abusive relationship and DH was able to say 'oops, won't do that again', I could just ignore the extreme responses and listen to the people saying sensible things.

We could compare it to the 'toxic parents' threads. It's fairly common for someone to reply to every thread saying 'yes, your mum/dad was emotionally abusive, read this book'. But that can be hugely helpful. I do have an abusive parent; I don't have an abusive partner - it is pretty easy, despite getting extreme responses about both - to tell the difference when you apply people's advice to your own situation.

Fortheverylasttime- thanks glad it helped.

I think that MN can be very good, but the Relationships forum is perhaps too emotive most of the time, and is skewed towards people who have been hurt and therefore bring a lot of baggage to their responses.

Of course you do Bonsoir, we all know how you think wives should behave to stop their husbands treating them like shit, some of us like to be treated with more respect though!

Thing is, on a lot of threads that feature people saying 'Leave him, he's a shit' there are also other posters saying 'How about some counselling, are you sure it's that bad?' and often as not one or two going 'Well that's just what men are like, suck it up.' And sometimes, on some threads, there are posts saying 'Look, you are the one being a shit here, get a grip!'
I do think there's a reasonable balance on here, but it's still so rare in mainstream discourse for there to be any feminist input, let alone input from MORE than the token (therefore dismissible) hairy-legged Millie Tant in the corner that people in general go, bwaah, ooer, it's a bit FEMINISTY in here even when it's less than half the postings.

Oh what a wonderful post. Yes, yes, yes.

I have watched in RL a relationship end incredibly badly with no counselling in part because the poster received so much validation from mumsnet even though people had never met them and knew nothing about them or their partner or their family or their job or their child etc. etc.

None of us can see behind closed doors but at least friends and family know something of the people involved.

OP you are a star.

Yes, it is skewed. Many of us have been through relationship trials that forced us to learn "there are bad people, and they do bad things to good people" - and that the majority of folk have never needed to learn this truth. It takes some harsh talking to break through the wall of denial. As LRD points out, there's no harm in this because you'll be able to compare what you've got with the "bad" being highlighted on your thread. It might turn out it's not so bad after all, in which case you've still gained the clarity you asked for.

Sorry I misunderstood you, PP!

UA: I've said it before, but ... blimey.

yes but purple maybe the only way to benefit from the experience of others is to acknowledge that it can comes with emotional baggage - we are adults -we can filter out the 'baggage' from the insightful and even lifesaving advice that this brilliant forum often gives

People don't end marriages lightly. They certainly don't do it because a dozen posters to a forum told them to. It is insulting to OPs to suggest they would.

Have the "men are like that" brigade never thought how insulting it is to the majority of men?

Good point, Omar. When you seek advice from someone more experienced - in any field - it is a given that their advice will be coloured by their experience!