Please tell me how to deal with this - toxic mother's relationship with grandmother

[TequilaMockinBird]

Ok so a few weeks ago I posted a thread about my mother and the lovely 'Pete' in regards to my wedding. Although I have distanced myself in those few weeks, I now have a different problem with them...

My grandmother (mum's mum) is nearly 80 and quite infirm. She cant go out on her own and as her other daughter (my aunt) lives in USA, she relys on mum and Pete to do things for her, take her to GP appointments etc.

Today I called in to see grandmother and my mum and Pete had been just before me. GM was really upset. I asked why and couldnt believe what she told me. I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

Mum and Pete take GM food shopping once a week, they also take her to opticians, GP, hospital as required. For this, they charge her half of her benefit every week - GM was unsure which benefit but may be Incapacity or DLA? - this amounts to about £90 a month and is for petrol, general wear and tear on the car etc

Last week GM's washer/dryer broke down, mum and Pete took her to buy a new one. They made her buy the cheapest most basic washer in Currys. Told her she didnt need a dryer and could use a clothes horse or radiators. Now GM has always had a dryer and so is used to having one. She isnt short of a penny in any way so could easily have afforded a washer/dryer IYSWIM.

GM wants a new TV, she has one which is about 10 years old and works perfectly but it takes up too much space and she wants a new one with a flat screen which will fit into the alcove much better plus give her more space. Mum and Pete have said no, its a waste of money, the one she has works fine etc.

When they take her shopping they wont let her buy certain things. I.e. she cant buy coleslaw because it only comes in tubs which are too big for her alone to eat and so half will be wasted.

What they dont seem to understand is that it's her money and if she wants to waste it then why shouldnt she? She's saved all her life and now they wont let her spend it?!

I think (and call me cynical if you want!) that they dont want her to spend all her money and not leave anything to them when she does eventually die. They are very selfish and greedy and I honestly think this is the reason.

Now, I work full time and also have DD so cant do the GP, hospital, optician appointments or I would.

What do I do? I'm really quite shocked at what I heard today (although I dont put it past them at all!), but GM wont say anything to them because she relys on them to ferry her around and she doesnt have anyone else so doesnt want to upset them. She's also quite scared of them I think and does whatever they tell her! i could do the once a week shopping but that will upset them and they could then stop taking her to appointments.

Theres actually quite a bit more to this but I'll end typing war and peace if I carry on w whilst also getting myself even more annoyed!

Help please!

Could she use a computer. She could blow their inheritance on the internet.

They charge her! Now my GPs are in their 80s and my aunt and uncle who live nearby do a fair bit of running round, drs appointments, shopping etc but they would never DREAM of asking for cash for this.

I would say this sounds almost abusive. I don't have any direct advice, but maybe a call to Age Concern....?

See now I also wondered if this could be classed as abusive? What would Age Concern be able to do though?

I also have a suspicion that my mother is claiming carers allowance - which I dont think she would be entitled to as she doesnt spend long enough with her a week. How could I find out whether or not she is?

Sherbetdipdab, she doesnt even know what a computer is I dont think

Tequila borrow a laptop go around and help her internet shop.

This is classed as "Elder Abuse" - my dh has seen this relatively often as a GP.

THIS pdf download from Age UK (merger of Help the Aged and Age Concern might be useful for you.

You could also speak to her GP or Social Worker if she has one. They can't share details with you without her consent, but they can take your concerns into account.

Around this area there are volunteer drivers who take elderly people to appointments. Could you perhaps look into this and so she would be more independent?

Hospitals will certainly send a taxi for people who cannot get there under their own steam.

Could she do online shopping?

Also, many people will do home visits, my mother is very elderly and has some appointments at home.

Honestly, I believe there is allsorts of assistance available to the elderly. Some has to be paid for, fair enough, but it at least you could get someone totally neutral involved. Or Social Services might be able to advise...My GPs would be eligible for a Home Help etc as I understand it, but they are too proud and won't go there...

That would definitely come under the heading elder abuse. Bloody hell, how can you protect her though? I would make sure you take very step you can to safeguard your grandmother - especially financially. Make sure any important legal documents are kept well away from those two. Lock away the silver too?

If I were you, I would sort her shopping, do it online if it would be easier, and if they stop taking her to appointments (which they probably would, right?) then use a taxi door to door. Order it for her if you have to. Maybe a befriending service could help?

I think Age Concern would be able to help, it is abuse, emotional and financial, the poor woman must be living in waful fear. I would advise you to take the gruesome twosomes anger on yourself and state that it is you who won't have them coming around / taking her to appointments, because of x, y and / or z. Make it up if you have to.

From personal experience, if you don't get shut of them one way or another, you can expect the following:

'Borrowed' money that never gets paid back
Large items going missing from the house, replaced with cheap ones or 'just being repaired' - never to be seen again
Jewellery disappearing
Legal issues, forcing her to make a new will, arguing about the will, even producing a 'lost' will in the event of the lady passing away (not for many a year, touch wood!)
YOur grandmother's physcial and mental health deteriorating.
Erm... possible falls and bruising.

This is much more common than people like to think. Be a bitch if you have to but don't let it carry on please.

It is possible to claim attendance allowance for doing the shopping, cleaning etc.

Could you to talk to your mother and see what she has to say? Maybe confronted with what you know would make her think twice about what she is doing and a timely warning about how she might be treated when it is her who is old and vulnerable!

Online shopping could be done from your computer and hospital visits etc can often be arranged with volunteer drivers.
I agree that a call to Age Uk, which might be the last resort, could give you access to some help for your GM, if she can afford it.

This is a horrible situation.

On a practical note, in our area the council ( I think) run a service called 'county cars' which provides free transport for the elderly for all sorts of things, such as hospital appointments. My dad used to volunteer for them. It might cost something like 50p per journey, if it's not free. Age concern would be able to advise you of any similar service in your area.

Good luck with sorting things out for your gm. She's lucky to have you looking out for her.

Interesting that wills should be mentioned - they have already made her change her will.

She wanted to leave everything to be split equally among her 3 grandchildren as mum and aunt are both retired, have their own houses, are self-sufficient etc. So she changed her will.

Mum and more specifically Pete, went absolutely ballistic, drove down to her house shouting and swearing about how it was mums inheritance and why should the grandchildren get it - they should learn to stand on their own two feet . They called the solicitor out to the house and more or less forced her into changing it!

They have all of her documentation, even down to household bills. They dont have control or access to her bank account but tell her what needs paid and when.

I have a different GP and surgery to GM so not sure how I would get an appointment with her GP, and I dont think she has a social worker.

Thanks for the info re volunteer drivers etc, I wasnt aware that those sort of things existed.

This is all really , i feel desperately sorry for her and need to decide what to do next. Do i confront mum or ring Age Concern, or both? I need to sleep on it I think

I think ring age concern and get a social worker involved tbh. You could contest that will btw.

You could help her set up having carers via direct payment scheme rather than her using your mum & Pete

I'm not sure GM would want a social worker involved though tbh. She still lives in 'the dark ages' a bit and social workers, to her, may be seen as a bad thing? But I'll definitely think about it.

Do you mean contest the will now CarGirl? Or if anything did happen to her?

Your mother sounds like mine Tequila.

My mother went to see her dying sister and made her go on the internet to look for appliances that my mother needed.

My aunt is terminal stage of breast,lung and bone cancer.

She sat in her bed for 4 hours while my mother surfed on their broadband without my mother attempted to make her lunch.

I wash my hands of my mother.

She has also made sure she is executor of my grandfather will (hefty amount) and I know,she is aiming to try and get the majority (I think he should waste the bloody lot)She also charges him for meals if she cooks for him and at 80 he drives a 60 mile around trip to take and pay for her shopping.
She works full time and is quite able to take her own arse shopping.

Do what ever you need to do for your grandmother,don't let her be bullied by parasites.

If something happened to her.

YOu could speak to your GM and tell her that she seems unhappy about the will she has made and offer the opportunity to make a new one. Actually there is a lovely MNer who has become self employed doing wills.

Your Mum would never know until after GM died!

Poshwellies, gosh that's awful

How do these people live with themselves? I'm a firm believer in karma and tbh I cant wait till it comes and bites my mothers ass!

Cargirl, I might just do that and speak to her about the will. I think her solicitor knew that she was unhappy about changing it anyway and he had to more or less force mum and Pete out of the room while she signed it (they refused to leave!).

I remember your previous thread about these two deeply unpleasant and narcissistic individuals.

At the very least there is financial abuse being committed here (the will change) and these two are committing abusive acts against your grandmother.

Many councils operate a social car service (I am a driver in such a scheme) so it is well worth enquiring about. The charge is 50p a mile.

I would phone both Age Concern (now renamed Age UK) and Social services asap. They can then call into being an "Adult Safeguarding Alert".

My mother is something else Tequila.

If your mother is being paid carers allowance she should NOT be being paid extra by your Grandmother,I would be calling up DSS and stating that she is being personally paid by your GM as well as recieving the allowance.

I find is utterly vile that a human would be so selfish and to think of making money out of a elderly or ill person.It's the lowest of the low imo.

Don't feel guilty Tequlia about approaching ss or Age concern but see it was protecting your GM in her twilight years.She should be looked after and not conned.

If you don't do it,who will?

Oh, God, this is horrible, most of all the work that will be needed to undo this.

But collect some things before you act, as you will need to do a blitz in order to take the power mum and "Pete" have accumulated. Have a look at this page for ideas of whom to contact, but basically you need:

• a list of her household utility suppliers, (telephone, gas, electric, etc.)
• electoral roll
• Experian/Exquifax credit check (in case mum and Pete have taken credit at her house)
• a local cab firm to quote for driving her to places she needs to go to (that is: opticians but not supermarket as you might be able to do online shopping for her) If you are in SE London, I can really recommend Handicars. Ask for contact details if you can't get them yourself.
• bank
• credit card/store card
• insurance/ pension
• doctor/ dentist/ optician

Once you have all these contacts, you can write to them to get communications put in her name, and only her name.

Maybe draw up a Power of Attorney for yourself, so that you can protect her against unauthorised changes?

Once you have done all of the above, you can proceed to tel mum and "Pete" that she is going to start carpooling with a local friend, so they can have a giggle as they do their shopping every week. M&P won't notice the bills immediately, so you and your grandmother will have a chance to "bed in" the changes without too much initial resistance, and give grandmother her confidence back.

So sorry you and your grandmother are going through this. It's so unfair that it's such a hassle, but if she is unhappy, it's really worth the effort. Good for you, looking after her. She must be proud of you. That business of changing the will is disgraceful, and M&P should be ashamed of themselves. I only hope your grandmother doesn't feel ashamed (as mum is her daughter); that could be hard to bear.

To other posters: I'm sure Age Concern will have excellent advice and is a necessary port of call anyway, but just wanted to respond tonight, as OP and her grandmother may be feeling helpless.

The less she spends the more other get. May be mum and Pete do not want her to spend much of her money so they would inherit a bigger sum? Pity she cannot have what she wants now. It is not like she is 20 years old. She needs to enjoy her life whether by buying a good washing machine with a dryer or having her favourite salad especially if she can afford it.

Just wanted to say i know how hard this is. My mum died 4 years ago leaving my gran in her late 80's having had a stroke. At the time she died, my uncle was living rough in a car with a history of debt and having just left his wife...

He had already tried to trick her out of 5 grand a few years ago (both him and mum got 5 grand when they moved but he came back months later claiming he didn't have his)
Anyway, she was miserable where she lived and wanted to move but my uncle just said "put her on prozac"

I got enduring power of attorney, and went against his wishes and moved her up to live near me in a care home. 2 WEEKS after she moved up he turned up at the care home and got a cheque for 2 more grand. I have now had to take full control. Its just so sick that some people negate the lives of elderly people and try to take over and steal from them. Anyway, sorry to go on, just wanted to say be strong and try to do what you know in your heart to be right. The moment i told my gran it would be ok and she could come up and live near me and the boys is one i won't ever forget, her relief was huge. Good luck x x

Yes, Spingsummer, they're scared of SKI-ing: Spending the Kids' Inheritance!

They sound like bastards. I hate it when my mother tries to tell me what's in her will. As long as there is a will, so no-one fights, I'm happy. At one point, I know that she had an extra something set aside for me, and then changed back to equal shares with my sib when I became better off, and I am proud to have been pleased about that, as it would be truly disgusting to be angry about her sense of "fairness" when it doesn't benefit me!

littlegreenie, that's a terribly sad story, only made better by the ending:

"The moment i told my gran it would be ok and she could come up and live near me and the boys is one i won't ever forget, her relief was huge."

Poor woman. She was so lucky to have had you step in. Mind you, she was so "lucky" she told you, too!

Thank you all for your advice and also sharing your sad stories .

My mother is always saying how GM doesnt eat and wont eat (she is approx 7 stone) and when I went yesterday, I purposefully looked in the fridge. There was 1 pint of milk, half a carton of cream, a tiny little block of cheese and some butter. This is after mum has taken her shopping . No wonder she isnt eating if there's nothing there to eat!

So after lying awake half the night, I got up this morning, took some chicken out of the fridge which we had cooked last night and wrapped it up in foil to take her. I also called at Asda and bought some breadbuns, ham and coleslaw so she can make sandwiches.

I took them round and told her to make some sandwiches and wrap them in cling film so she can eat them whenever she's hungry. I gave her the chicken and she sat and ate it there and then out of the foil .

I've decided that I'm going to tackle this head on. I will start taking her food and even taking her shopping myself if mum isnt going to let her buy anything! The rest of it will take time, but GM now knows that I'm there and she can ring me whenever for whatever.

I really cant believe those 2 would treat somebody, anybody, like this - let alone my GM

Havent quite worked out what or how to say anything to mum yet but for now I need to concentrate on GM.