He's used Pro's

[informationoverload]

...more than once.

Abroad and in the UK.

In the past told me he hadn't. Appreciate his honesty (I did ask) but feel confused now.

Says he was in a non-sexual relationship at the time.

Said he had no confidence with women/sexually and needed to 'get laid'.

Says he would again (but not while he's with me)(!).

If his friends were off to Amsterdam for a weekender, he'd want to go and want me to be ok with that.

He's young, he's done it within the last 5 years.

I've been betrayed in the past. Aside from the G.U.M. clinic, I don't really know where to go from here.

In the same weekend he divulged this, asked if I would marry him and says he wants children with me.

I'm confused! I'm glad he's been open but now I feel uncomfortable. He treats me like a queen, but...

Oh god what a dreadful story I am so sorry themachinist.

I think I would run away so fast I would leave skid marks if a man told me this. The idea that he felt he could use a woman's body the way one would order a pizza to satisfy an urge would disturb and disgust me. The thought of him raising children with him - a big no.

I also think that men often only tell part of a story and there is probably a lot more experiences than they let on. The thought of going to an exploited woman kept in conditions like a slave, just too horrific for words I would not get it out of my head.

I suspect like others on here, we can't understand why you're torn on this. You either know where you stand on prostitution, or you don't. Your stance seems to be - if it was before me it doesn't count. Many women take the same view about infidelity, unfortunately.

What your P is saying to you is that he doesn't regard using sex workers as a bad thing; he is pretty unapologetic about it really isn't he, especially with the "I would do so again" line? His justification also seems to be that he did this while in a relationship, because he wasn't getting sex. How do you feel about that as a justification?

What your P has basically admitted to is that he thinks that infidelity and using prostitutes is okay in some circumstances.

Only you can know whether you agree with this stance and where your own moral compass lies. Even if he never cheated on you or used prostitutes (pretty unlikely I'd say) his values would still be the same, wouldn't they?

Don't bargain this away with "at least he was honest" because if he told you he had been violent to all his previous partners, presumably you wouldn't ignore this on the grounds of him "being honest" would you? Or reason that he wouldn't do that to you, when all the history suggests otherwise?

Finally, have you tried to reverse this and imagine how he'd feel about proceeding with a relationship with you if you admitted that you'd used male prostitutes in the past while in a relationship and would do so again?

Grapeandlemon - thank you. It was 12 years ago now, but is still very raw.

I think people should remember that not everyone who did wrong or foolish things when fairly young remains a bad person. It's possible to do something bad in your youth due to being unhappy and messed up/lots of peer pressure/just youthful stupidity and subsequently understand how wrong it was, make reparation if possible and never do it again.

This would horrify me and I'd be running for the hills if I were you.

I agree SGB, but that's not this man is it? He's said he would do it again.

SGB - agree totally.

I did stupid things (still do!), as did my long term partner. I actually do not agree with the 'leopard...spots' thing, as people do change - their views, politics, emotions.

That said, when it comes to attitudes to women/sex, and prostitution, I think that once as a peer pressured early experience is probably excusable. 'Use' over a period of time, or recently, with some sort of internal justification of it continuing into the future is not. And everything the OP is saying would make me run a mile - today!

I agree with everyone else - but I said I was amazed not because I don't think you don't have a problem with this but because you are still considering staying with him.

He has said he would do it again. He is old enough to contemplate marriage and children and so he is old enough to understand the moral implications of sexualy exploiting women who could be co-erced into sex slavery. But he doesn't think this is wrong.

Most bloke's who are wrong 'uns will tell you that they are bad at the beginning of the relationship. They may say it just once very casually, in passing but they usually do say it.

If you don't listen you are setting yourself up for a world of pain.

You'll be back on here OP in time to come - one of those women who say that she has a baby and her bloke spends all his time looking at porn on his computer, hiding away with his phone and making odd little night time trips out.

because he is entitled to sex you see, he is entitled to be serviced by a woman, and if he doesn't have a woman on hand to service him he will buy one. Women are commodites for the convenience of men in his little world.

In my opinion, a lot of men go on holiday to Thailand to visit prostitutes and a lot of stag dos are held in Amsterdam to visit prostitutes or take drugs - no other reason.

It happens a hell of a lot. The difference I see is that this man has been honest about it. I would rather my husband tell me that in his youth he did this and actually be a truthful person rather than lie to me because I would rather hear that he hadn't.

If my husband had told me this I would think that at least he was honest and I could ask him things knowing he would tell me the truth - shocking or not.

The only concern I would have is that he did it whilst in a relationship because it was sexless. was it sexless because they were having problems anyway (probably) and did he not see any future for the relationship. Or did he just do it because he wasn't getting it at home and in real life sometimes they don't get it at home, illness, pregnancy etc. and then that would be a worry for me.

It is a very shocking thing, but it is very very common. You've just got an honest one and personally I would think better the devil I know if everything else in your relationship is fine.

BTW FWIW re: Amsterdam - been there, done that, no reason to go back. You can go to the local stag do. If you do go, don't come back.

I'm sorry, but him telling you all this and then asking you to marry him and have his kids just smacks of him panicking and hoping it'll smokescreen you into focusing on the excitement of that, not his disgusting prior activity.

Personally, I could never contemplate a future with a man who'd used prostitutes. To me, it's misogyny. Even on the most trivial level, what normal man could get off on sex when his partner is clearly not interested or when he has to do nothing to please her? That shows a very worrying attitude. Of course, that's MY opinion, and I'm not going to tell you that you must feel that way too. But it's very worrying and very telling that he is totally unrepentant about it, can't see why it is wrong and would do it again in the future when single. If he was utterly ashamed and disgusted and wanted help, that would be different (although I would still leave such a man, as visiting prostitutes is a definite deal-breaker in my book). This is a man who sees women as 'things' to provide him with what he wants; things whose own needs and feelings he never has to take into consideration. He sees prostitutes as holes for him to fuck. He will see you as The Wife, to give him children and do everything for him. A man like that doesn't want women to be real and need anything, he just wants the world to revolve around him and his needs and desires. I would not foresee a happy marriage with someone like him.

Only the most clueless and self-deluding of men could fail to know that the majority of prostitutes here and abroad are either only doing it because they are desperate and stuck in horrible personal circumstances or trafficked. On the Ch4 sex trafficking doc last night, one poor Chinese girl spoke of being forced to have sex with up to 45 men a day, every day. These are ordinary men, men we otherwise see as good and 'decent', not 'weirdos'. Could you risk making a life with a man like that?

PS The majority of white Dutch prostitutes in Amsterdam's Red Light District have also been forced into it, as well as women of all colours and nationalities being sex trafficked. My brother lives in Amsterdam and the locals look down on the sex tourists as the absolute lowest of the low. I've had to go through there a few times, to get places, and it is GRIM. How any man can think of visiting those poor women is beyond my comprehension. The sights made my DP shake, he was so upset. THAT is the correct response to seeing sad, hollow-eyed, bruised and desperate women writhing around in windows trying to tempt men in so they can basically allow themselves to be raped, so their pimps or 'owners' won't hurt or kill them. Not 'which one should I pick?'. Yes, some choose to do it and a few maybe even enjoy it. But not many.

When I was 19 I went out with, and eventually lived with and was enagaged to, a man who had used prostitutes in the past. He was 35 when we started seeing each other. I didn't like it as I was worried about him having any diseases. Another one of my fiances lost his virginity to one and when never slept with anyone else until me and again, it didn't bother me that much. What these men both had in common was they were both violent towards me. Coincidence or not, I have no idea.

informationoverload - what is your issue as he is within his rights to have done what he wanted before he met you. Is it the thought that bothers you, the fact he appears to want to go with one while on a stag night or the fact he said he hadn't and now says he has?

I view men who use (or have used) prostitutes as weak, pathetic, sad little perverts who have the emotional maturity of fly. I would be running for the hills.

Run away. Fast.

Have you come to any conclusions? I hope you're ok. :)

Hello informationoverload

Just to say that you are not alone. I found out that my h used escorts for 10 years during our marriage.

We are still together and are (both) desperately trying to make things work.

Again, he is the last person anyone would guess would turn to prostitutes.

It is not straightforward (and who am I to give advice - look at me - believing him when he says he will never do it again!).

But I would not want anyone to go through what I have, if it could possibly be avoided.

I think that when they have done it once, they can do it again and again and it becomes an addiction. And you (like me) would have the threat of it hanging over you the whole time.

Get out while you still can.

People do some things in their youth that they may not do again, be it one night stands, strippers, pros, drugs, alcohol binging whatever. Obviously not all people do and not all people do all of those examples.

So sometimes it is a case of weigh it up as misspent youth or something else.

Personally if I were you the fact he told me he would do it again, would repulse me and tell me it's not a youthful mistake, he would pay a woman for sex, not someone who would gain my respect as a man.

Loopy, yes, no and kind of. A little less confused at least, thank you for asking.

We spoke more today, he clarified some pertinent points and I have more thinking to do, so he has left for now.

Thanks for all of your input, I will read more tomorrow but feel upset and drained at the moment.

I agree with what everyone has posted about the concerns about this mans values. So I would like to point to something which hasn't been said yet.

OP, you have not once said "I love him, he makes me happy, he treates me lovely and makes me feel very special". In fact I don't get the sense that you are attracted to this man at all. So why do you want to stay with him in the first place? You say you do not have children with him but your on MN so I can only assume that you do have children. Are you looking for a relationship to feel like an adult, to have companionship and a step-father for your children? If you are in the latter category then surely the underlying flawed values on which this man engages with women, as has been touched on by so many posters already, should show you that he is poor quality for companionship (do you honestly think he is the sort to be there for you if you got cancer, trying to make your life bearable and being fine with not looking all that pretty due to the chemo and loss of libido? or even just there to do the nightfeed or the school run if you can't?), does he do adult and nice things with you (like sit and talk for ages, does he take you out for dinner, does he cook for you?), is he nice to your children (would you be happy to let him babysit your children for 24 hours unsupervised, and if you would could you expect him to be happy to do so?).

Like I said I agree with everything which has been written about what concerns us who have posted here about his character and that alone I think is reason to "run for the hills" but since you haven't professed your undying love for him and his for you but spoken about his proposal more matter-of-factly and since I gather you have children (which disturbs me greatly - do you have daughters..?)

Please think about what your dream guy would give you in a relationship and ask yourself honestly if this person already gives you these things. If he doesn't then I wouldn't be tinking getting married in any case as they rarely change just because of the wedding sermon and the ring on their finger, and certainly not to one who's character is cleraly fundamentally flawed. I don't envy you this decision but like you've said yourself you know you need to think it through so adding to the mix!

In terms of support, love (mutual), sex, stability, reliability, consideration (day to day), and equality in housework and childcare - he is/was the most fantastic partner I have ever had.

...which is why I didn't go into all of that TBH. This is one thing which jeopardises it all.

Me, personally, I would stay with him if everything else is great, I would put it down to a mispent youth, I think it is a lot more common these days than people might think. I'm not condoning it obviously but I wouldn't write someone off because of it.

But isn't the crucial point here that he doesn't think these were mistakes made in a mis-spent youth? And that he would do it again? Like I said downthread, you either agree with using prostitutes or you don't - and it sounds as though he does.

I sympathise, OP!
I used to feel as you ... well, as you want to feel. Lots of men do it; that was then & this is now; at least he was honest.

In my experience - which is extensive, but by no means universal! - this does indicate a tendency to view women as sex objects, which acn be bought/sold/hired and used. In my experience, his revelation is the beginning of a conditioning process and a man who was an habitual user of prostitutes continues to be so.

This might not be true in his case, how would I know? But I feel that, as you're exercised over the issue - and are considering a commitment that begins with an 'at least' - it might be best to appreciate the good times and distance yourself now.

Asking you to marry him and then responding 'not while I'm with you' about using prostitutes is rather confusing, he either wants to spend the rest of his life with you and can reply 'No, never again.' or he can't, iyswim.

Besides haven't you lost respect for him now? Any man that admitted he had and would use prostitutes I would find pathetic.