WWYD or say in this situation to my idiot ex and why is he doing this?

[MNknowseverything]

A couple of years ago I went away for a weekend with my sister to our old home town. Just before I went I got an email from an old friend/exboyfriend who said he was in town also that weekend. He lives abroad so this was a big deal. I went out, met him for a couple of drinks with a whole big gang of other people and that was it.

Now here is the problem. I did not tell my H (at the time, we are separated now) about this. The reason being that he used to go completely, nuttily jealous about me having any contact with old male friends/ex boyfriends even just via email. He would rant and threaten divorce etc. Basically when we met and married he wanted me to drop all of these people and never have contact with them again. I wouldn't do it and basically just kept the odd email, text message a secret (literally once or twice a year). Anyway it has now come out that I met up with this ex and he is now telling me that he knows more went on (it didn't) that I am a liar and I was obviously messing about on him throughout our entire relationship, the reason that he treated me the way he did during our marriage was that he sensed "stuff was going on" etc.

This man was repeatedly unfaithful to me and verbally and emotionally abusive throughout the marriage. He now tells me he was totally justified in all this because of "everything I got up to".

I just didn't. I know he is my ex but this is driving me nuts because I know he is telling people this stuff and he is being really disrespectful towards me because of it. It is not true and it makes makes me feel ill and unable to get any kind of closure from his real treatment of me, the way that he is twisting it all round and trying to make me look like the bad one in all this.

I know you will all tell me to ignore him but I can't, not only did he crap all over me when we were together but even now tries to turn it all around and put it on me.

Sorry to go one but I just need some ideas on why he is doing this because it is driving me crazy.

You don't need 'ideas' on why he's doing this - he's an emotionally abusive FUCKER - you need no further answer than that.

Stop giving him headspace and don't bother trying to analyse him - there is no point wondering about FUCKERS!

Sorry for all you've been through.

STOP!!!!!

Stop allowing him to have this power over you.

You know nothing happened.

The people who DO love you and respect you know nothing happened.

So, who does that leave - some folk who's opinion means nothing to you.

You have to let this go - truth will out in the end anyway. Let Karma weave her magic.

You don't need any ideas on why he is doing anything. he is doing these things because he's a dick, and that's all there is to it.

If he talks to you again in a manner that does not relate to your mutual children, you say "If you contact me again you will find yourself subject to a harrassmant order"

He's a prick. That's the beginning and the end of it.

You Can't Mend Him, He's Broken.

Oh thank you!

I was worried I wouldnt get any responses because it was too long.

I told my Mum about all this today and she said "WHAT!??" and when I tried to say "I promise I didn't do any of what he says", she said "do you think people don't know that? As far as we are concerned you were "Caesars wife" in that marriage", that made me feel better that at least SOMEONE believes me.

I feel all sick and shaky when he accuses me, I always have done when I am accused of doing things I haven't done and when I was trying to defend myself my voice was all shaky and I couldn't find the words and I all the time he was smirking at me and saying things like "ah ha, there we go!" whenever I stumbled over my words. Honestly feel like my head is going to explode.

You are all right of course. But why do THEY do this? Why does it never end even when you have split up? I suppose I will never get an answer to that question and I should stop expecting one.

Is it because you have children together that you have to talk to him? Cos maybe you need to find a different way to do this so you don't have to put up with this shit.

Maybe when you get your power back you can have someone with you like your mum/ a large friend and say loudly :"Oh yeah, I fucked a whole rugby team when we were married" nice and calmly (maybe with a bit of a smirk)

But not if you're in any danger.

You asked what would I do and I would do what I just said

but I'm a bit of a wind-up cowbag.

Look, tell this man that you do not want any contact with him because he's a dick. You don't have to have any contact with him at all, even necessary communication about your DC can be done through a third party.
Or you could just, every time he starts up, smile brightly at him and say 'Yes, but I don't care what you think. Your opinion is irrelevant.' Because it is irrelevant.

He's doing this because it means the attention is off of his behaviour and on to yours. And/or because a lot of people who have multiple affairs believe that their partners are having affairs as well.

Look, abusers will often go out and spread lies and gossip in an attempt to make themselves look like the wounded party. He talked a lot of crap while you were together so why expect any different behaviour from him now?

The simple answer to "why...?" is "because he's a nut-job." Nut-jobs don't operate to the same rules of behaviour that normal people do. That's what makes them nut-jobs, of course. Some people will believe his stories. Many won't. Most won't give a damn either way. Some people will believe him at first and, later on, realise that he was talking crap and come and apologise to you (that's happened to me more than once).

Don't bother getting into long discussions with people in an attempt to prove that he's talking crap. If you get asked simply smile and say "Blimey, he really has lost touch with reality, hasn't he?" and change the subject. Real friends won't believe him and will continue to support you. Anybody who believes him and not you is a pillock who is best ignored anyway.

I know the need you have to get closure on this. But you need to understand that he is completely incapable of giving you that closure. It's not going to happen. Instead, then, start thinking about how you can provide that closure to yourself. I'd suggest you start by working on forgiving yourself for getting into this relationship. That made a big difference for me.

Definitely stuff I can use here. Thank you so much. Feeling better already. Just what I needed a dose of MN no nonsense advice.

We usually manage to get on ok (mainly because I bend over backwards with regards to access to dc etc) but every now and then he comes out with a nice verbal or emotional punch in the guts and then it goes on for a couple of days and usually ends up with me in tears, pretty much like when we were together really but it happens a lot less I have to say.

I think I need to forgive myself for staying as long as I did, I do feel angry with myself for that.

I need to remember that my dog is more emotionally supportive than he ever was and throughout the time we were together he brought pretty much constant pain so why expect anything else now. It is the gaps between performances that does it, everytime I relax up he pops again with some piece of nonsense like this.

Do
Not
Speak
To
Him
Again.

Limit contact to information about cantact with the children, to be communicated via email.

this is the only communication you will accept.

The end.

Snorbs: I really needed to read that, great timing. I'm sitting up late all in a turmoil because my ex-dp is doing exactly that to me. Speaking to him on the phone yesterday was bizzarely like having 2 conversations going on - him giving loud inappropriate responses to what I was saying - and yes, I twigged eventually, that he was playing the-hard-done-she's-so-unreasonable-wounded man scenario to an audience. He was supposed to be coming tomorrow to buy dcs clothes (pays zero maintainance) but today he's played a mean hand: sending hurtful texts/refusing point blank to give pick-up & drop-off times. So I've said No. This has played right into his hands as he gets away with not having to part with his money yet will no doubt play it up as bad woman denying the poor man contact.
I could weep. It's so manipulative, so contrived. I want to bang my head against the wall it's so unfair.
I can't quite forgive myself for turning a blind eye to a lot of things, for always making excuses, until that behaviour was turned on me.

OP: (sorry for hi-jacking post) These sort of men really twist everything up. Snorbs is right - you can not reason with people who act this way because there's no logic or justice in it.

MNknows: I just reread your last post. That's exactly what it's like for me too. Periods of calm, reasonable-man, then a compete U-turn. Jackyll & Hyde character. It is like you say - performances (with sudden unpleasant intervals).
All in all it completely did my head in. And still does

MNknowseverything: My XH must have been a bigamist! That is exactly what he did and said to me, although I didn't even have any exes (I was totally green when we met, probably why I was such a pushover). I used to think he was insecure and if I proved myself faithful and loyal, eventually he would learn to trust me. Silly me. It's not about whether they really think you'll stray. It's about keeping you on the back foot, as Snorbs so well explains it.

Basically, you have to get out of the habit of trying to make him believe you. Either he knows damn well you are telling the truth, or he has a wire loose in his brain so that he will continue believing what he does in the teeth of the evidence (google "cognitive dissonance", it's more interesting than it sounds!). It's annoying to think you may never find out which it was, but in the end it doesn't matter. You don't have to prove anything to him. You are rid of a crap partner. He is obliging enough to continue reminding you just how crap he is. Be grateful for that!

What took me quite a while to realise is that I didn't have to have those maddening conversations with my ex. The only two things you have to discuss with them is a) the children and b) any outstanding financial matters. If the conversation starts straying off of those topics onto who did what to whom and when then you are allowed to say "I'm not prepared to discuss that right now. As I was saying..." If they start ranting and raving then say "I'm not going to be talked to like that" and put the phone down. And then don't pick it up again when they call back. Take back control for yourself.

With my ex I realised that a lot of it was down to craving for attention. It's like a toddler - if they can't get the attention they want by being nice then they'll try to get that attention by being an obnoxious brat. That is why not engaging with them is the best way of dealing with them. Don't give them attention regardless of whether they're being nice or nasty. Eventually they'll realise that you don't give a damn any more and then they'll go off and find someone else's life to blight instead of yours.

As colditz recommends, I found that email was the best communication method. I could read the emails at my leisure and think carefully about my response. Short, polite, business-like responses are best. Ignore any provocations and simply deny any blatant false accusations. Keep the thought "How would this sound if it was read out in court by my ex's solicitor?" in the back of your mind while writing the reply.

Hah, that would work for me. XH doesn't know how to use email, so it would be nice and quiet!

Oh god - he's still trying to control you even though you have split up. Don't let him.

Every time you start worrying about something he says remind yourself his opinion does not matter.

My sister went through this with her abusive XP [still is SIX years on]. Her strategy that works is:
Only communicate via text (written record of what he says)
If/when he sends abusive messages the only reply he gets is "yawn" or nothing
If he is particularly abusive she gets someone else to send the reply to him.

This way he does not get the emotional response from him he craves - these abusive men still wants to keep their power over you/her - and they do this by keeping up the insults and digs. It is up to you to not let him have that power.
It's really hard - especially when it is really personal digs they are giving - but again remind yourself - his opinion _does not matter, anyone he tells - either they know you so won't believe him ... or they do not matter.

Good luck with keeping this tosser out of your life and mind.

• if he is particularly abusive but she needs to reply about something important

I'd have as little to do with him as possible, keep handovers brief and ignore him. The guy is unpleasant because he's an unpleasant guy. I'm not sure what you mean by "it goes on for a couple of days". You shouldn't be seeing that much of him. Keep phone calls brief and about the kids, arrange regular access visits and don't give the guy headspace.

It's not you it's him.

I would be checking he's not verbally abusing the children though or telling them lies about you and would restrict access if he is.

Well we speak every day re dc. We have tried to keep things as normal as possible for them so they are not badly affected by the split.

He wouldn't ever abuse the kids, I am pretty sure of that. For some reason it is only me that gets it, he seems to like everyone else and be considered a thoroughly nice guy by them. This is what I struggle with and what always made me think it must be ME.

Although I can imagine in the future when he has twisted everything round to his own version of events he would probably say "well Your Mum never really committed to me and that is why we split up". He has already said that when the kids are old enough to understand they will know what really went on and they will be able to see for themselves how awful I am, he won't even need to tell them anything apparently. It does actually make me feel so sad and scared when he talks like that. Like maybe I am awful but just don't know it.

Have been very brief and breezy with him today, just put him straight onto dc when he rang to speak to them and going to get ds a sim card to go in my old phone so he can just ring them direct from now on.

Snorbs you are very right, that is exactly what ex is a giant toddler.

Annie I too keep thinking that he will believe me in the end but I am beginning to realise that he won't and that things aren't actually going to end fairly with him finally realising how awful he was. I have decided to just say "well you can think what you like but my conscience is crystal clear" while really ennunciating the word crystal just to annoy him.

KissingFrogs My ex gets arsey around child support time too, to be fair he has always paid up though but I am not sure if he will forever, once he has managed to convince himself how well of I am and that his money is just extra for me to spend on shoes and handbags or something.

Bonzo Really, is your sister still going through it all 6 years after the split?! Does it never end? What a depressing thought.

Speaking daily about the children seems a bit OTT although I suppose my ex and I did this initially but the kids soon made their dislike of being dragged away from whatever they were doing to talk on the phone plain so the daily phone calls stopped after a few months. Now the kids are old enough to phone themselves.
Having him speak direct to the kids is a good idea.

I wouldn't worry about his stuff about the kids realising x y and z when they are older.

In general kids aren't interested in hearing the minutiae of why their parents marriage didn't work and hate hearing their parents criticise each other.
Concentrate on your relationship with them and things will be fine.

It sounds as though you are doing the right things.

I was going to suggest getting the dc's a mobile, but see you've already done it. You don't need to speak to every day, text if you have to.

I had this with my xh. He got bored with it in the end, and my ds's were 11 & 13 when we split, so it wasn't long before I didn't need to have contact with him. That time will come for you too, and it really does make a huge difference!!

He's greatly enjoying having this control over you, and your reaction to it. In his head, the fact that you're upset means you still care about him. Who instigated the divorce? You?

Have a read of this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Control-Charming-Dangerous-Lovers/dp/0091884322 It's great, and is the reason I eventually left my xh.

MN - yes my sister is still going through it - if she lets him. And her Ex sounds very like yours. She did get wound up about it every time and sent text after text of justifying and reasoning replies - but like a toddler after the attention it just perpetuated it - he replied with more and more inflamatory things. Replying "yawn" infuriated him but he was powerless - no matter how incendary his replies she gave him no comeback pointer. She has found that the things I mentioned above really do work - he's not getting any feedback at all for the negativity and slowly he has realised he has lost the power. Also - if he arranged to see the children at a certain time, or to phone at a certain time - and he didn't do so within a set window - the phone wasn't answered - or they went out. Stopped him controlling their time that way too.

Don't worry about the children thinking bad of you - they are not daft - as they grow up they will see him for what he is (sister's kids are doing so now - despite him slagging their mum off at every opportunity). And they see you every day and know what you are like so won't believe anything he says as the evidence is before them.

And as someone else has said above - do you really need to be having communication with this man every day? If he needs to call the children then can you not arrange a time and either have caller display so you know it is him and you can pick up the phone say " wait" and then get your DC. Or even let the child answer if you know it is him. Or like you say - let him ring the mobile number.

You need to minimise the number of times he has an influence on your life. Two years on and you should have the routines there and only need to talk if anything changes.

(Sorry this is a bit long but seeing my sister live through all this has been hell)