Please Help - Want to Leave Him

[silveryfox]

Hi - I've name changed because this is a big thing, not sure if I have the balls to go through with it, but want to - so much.

I feel our marriage is over, but I am scared about leaving. I don't know how or if I would cope on my own. I earn a reasonable wage, but we have quite a large joint debt. He earns twice what I do, I have no idea of benefits I might be entitled to as a single mother, not sure how things are in terms of benefits since the changes have started to be brought in, scared I'll be dooming my baby boy to live in a situation where we have no money, dooming myself too.

We've tried to shore this marriage up for the last 2 to 3 years, separated for about 6 mths last year while I was pregnant but got back together again and agreed we'd give it another go for the sake of the baby. But its now clear to me it really is over - for me anyway.

He seems to have no problem living with the rows. It feels like we're flogging a dead horse. I've been feeling for a long time like I am just not interested in the physical side anymore - and I thought it was because I was so tired from bringing up our son/working full time, etc. I am now having extremely strong feelings for a guy at work - one of my senior managers actually, and I've discovered in the last couple of weeks that its not my libido thats gone south, its my feelings for my husband - this is nothing to do with me fancying my manager, I was feeling like this before I went back to work. My senior manager has made it clear he fancies me and I've been bouncing off the walls ever since - my smile has returned.

He joined my department 2 yrs ago just before I conceived and we flirted but that was it. Nothing more than that. I thought that being out of the office on Maternity Leave and away from him for the 52 weeks would mean my attraction for him would wane and I welcomed that. However, I've been back at work full time now for around 8 weeks and it is still there - if not stronger.

Quite apart from the fact that he's married/I'm married/we both have young children (I'm not intending this to go any further) it has made me realise that my relationship (for me anyway) is dead - I care about him, but it just isn't working.

I never looked at another man before now, but whereas before when my husband worked long hours I would feel really upset that he wasn't here (and if I dared to tell him I missed him and wished he was here and not working late - again, I would get it in the neck from him for not understanding - he has a very bad temper which is made worse if he feels guilty about something i.e. working late, etc.)now when he works late and I don't miss him or get upset, he now gets upset that I don't.

I care about him - we;ve been together for over 5 years, but I'm not in love with him, we can't seem to find any harmony together, we have completely differnt outlooks on life, which have only got worse since my son was born - I've gone into full blown mother mode.

Whereas my priorities are that we are all safe/warm and fed and physically safe, and I don't care too much about things like cars/keys/gadgets, etc. (some of this is due to baby-brain and I have occasionally forgotten to lock the car while dealing with a hungry baby and supermarket bags/trying to get the baby fed and into bed at a reasonable time, after having doen a full day's work. I often don't get to eat until past 9pm) he only cares about security of things like cars/keys/gadgets, etc. Its ok for him to break something, as long as no one else touches "his things" - i.e. car/house, etc) He is very insecure and thinks everyone is out to get him - he's always been like this - I recently misplaced my car keys in the house and it took 10 mins for me to find them again. In that time he had us changing all the locks on the house, changing the keys to the car, etc. because he thought I'd left them in the car on the drive and that som3eone in the few mins I was away from the car looking for them in the house (they weren't - they were on my bed upstairs) had stolen then and was waiting for us to go out so they could ransack the house! He ranted and raved for 30 mins about that and it got so out of hand we had to cancel our day out. He admits now he went overboard, but its just one of many "overboard incidents".

I've recently been in hospital as an emergency case with gall stones - I had them out at the weekend and am now at home supposedly recovering. However, this is not really happening as he refuses to make sacrifices as far as his job is concerned. I am unable to lift the baby due to my stomach muscles having 4 holes in them from the keyhole surgery and yet he won't come home early to help with bathing the baby and putting him to bed/leave the house later in the morning to take the baby to nursery. We've had to rely on my friends' good natures and ask them to take him to and from nursery until I can drive again.

Another issue is we've slept apart for the last few years as he snores incredibly loudly - this is down to him being morbidly obese. He's promised me so many times over the years he wants to do something about it as we have both said we want to be able to sleep in the same bed again - but he keeps eating takeaways, McDonalds, etc. etc.

I buy all sorts of healthy stuff for the fridge and cupboards, but what I don't eat gets thrown away because he won't eat it.

I don't know if these things sound really petty, or whether I sound like i'm making excuses, but having rediscovered my feelings and that I'm not actually closed off, I'm feeling realy suffocated. But I'm scared. I've not been on my own for over 5 years.

I have a baby now that I'm responsible for. I've never had any experience of the benefits system so don't have a clue about tax credits/childcare vouchers, etc. My family lives a long way away, and I don't have a great relationship with them so its not like I can turn to them for support or advice.

Can anyone advise me? Please? I've stayed and we've tried to make it work but I'm now worried about the affect all the rowing etc is haivng on my baby - he's 15 mths old now and is starting to talk and surely understand whats going on/understand that this is not a happy home.

Sorry this is an extremely long post - I started out just wanting advice on how to leave, and ended up writing an essay! My apologies. Guess it was good to get some of it out! Theres lots more, but didn't want to bore anyone more than I have already! If you've got this far, thanks for reading.

Hi all - me again....

well, I thought I'd come back and update you on how its been here since the beginning of September.

After confronting the issue at the beginning when I told him I wanted us to split, as I said it was horrible - he went through the range of emotions, lashing out, turning it all in on himself, being nice to me to try to persuade me to change my mind, ignoring the situation, and back to nastiness, etc.

A week later his parents came to stay for a few days to see our son, their grandchild. I was dreading it, but he asked me to pretend all was ok while they were here as he wasn't ready to deal with telling them what had happened. I agreed and it went ok.

We had agreed that, if this had to happen even though he didn't want it to, he would try to be amicable and reasonable, and he wanted us to be able to work together for our baby's sake. I also needed to be able to stay in our house for the initial period while I sorted out the money, any tax credits, etc. This is what we agreed.

However as the weeks went on he started trying to get close to me again, physically and emotionally. Each time I would push him away and remind him of the situation. Then on Friday night last week he came in from work and started ranting at me that he couldn't actually see a reason for us to split - that for the past couple of weeks we had been getting on fine and the arguments had stopped and for this reason he thought it would be good to try again. I told him the reason this had happened was because the pressure of the relationship was off as as far as I was concerned we were trying to remain friends but that was all.

He just kept talking over me, not letting me finish if speak at all and in the end I just sat there and listened to him going on and on, he wasn't talking to me - like I;ve said before - he was talking at me.

He said he wanted us to try to make it work again, and he wanted me to consider it/think about it. I was so tired by that point that I just agreed I would - he never listens to me, never lets me speak or finish speaking and its worn me down. I know I shouldn't have done it but I did - for all those reasons.

All over the weekend I've wanted to say to him that I'd thought about it and the situation and that actually nothing had changed in my mind, but I was scared of the reaction I would get. All over the weekend, he was back to being all lovey dovey with me and asking me why I didn't fancy him, why I couldn't give him compliments e.g. that I thought he was hot, etc!

Tonight he came in and was the same and I just thoght I cannot do this any more so I said that I had thought about it all over the weekend but that my feelings hadn't changed - that was his cue to go off on one, dragging up all the excuses about how he didn't want me to ruin our baby's life and future by making him live in a council house, have no money, not have his dad with him, have me speaking to him like dirt like I do with my husband, and that he wouldn't be there to protect him from that, etc.

He said if I truly had the baby's best interests at heart I would swallow what I wanted and stay for his sake, that the baby would tell us he wanted his mum and dad together no matter what. I tried to say that if he could speak he would say he wanted us BOTH to be happy, and not to stay in an unhappy relationship.

My husband also said that the people on mumsnet would also tell me that the first year is the hardest (on top of which the baby has been very ill on several occasions and in hospital, and so have I, added to the fact that my husband was made redundant) and is never the right time to split up - in fact it would be the time not to split up and that people should stay together for the sake of the child.

Now this is the man who has in the past blamed Mumsnet for a lot of our problems as he says I come on here, read what a lot of you man-hating women have to say (his words!) and then get it into my head that we have to split up!

Goddamit! I was so pleased that I thought we seemed to have turned a corner and in reality nothings changed! He sat there and just whispered in a really condesending way while shaking his head at me "I just do not understand why you wouldn't have the baby's best interest at heart, why you wouldn't put him first, why you're putting what you want first ahead of the baby". I just can't win!

He;s in his own little world, and meanwhile I'm still waiting for the damn tax credits to be approved! I'm absolutely shattered as this is another wasted evening, so I'm sure I've left loads out but will come back and add if/when I remember any more.

No doubt he will wake up tomorrow in a foul mood and go back to saying I can F-off but the baby will be staying here, and then i'll spend all day worrying about that too! On top of all that, he reiterated again that I would have to find the money to pay half of everything here for the house as well as paying rent and bills on any new place I end up getting. Aaaargh!

Sorry for the long post! Thanks

Hi Silveryfox

I am sorry you are having such a stressful and exhausting time
You know you are making the right decision every time DH does the "talking at you" routine don't you?
If he was listening and taking on board what you have said he would know you don't fancy him, you don't think he is hot and you don't appreciate him!

It may be panic on his part that makes him try to force you to behave how he wants you to behave. He is frightened that you will find the courage and determination to act on your words and leave, so he has to make it sound as difficult as possible for you to leave to intimidate you into staying.
The business about what your baby would want is just emotional blackmail.

I have just left my DH and DC (older teenagers) after 18 months of struggling to put things right. In the end it was actually easy. I am lucky I can afford to pay private rental, and DH was very firm he would stay in our house with DC as he wasn't the one who wanted out. It took me three days from when I really decided to go to locking my own front door on the world. This isn't a long term solution (I would like my DC to have a choice to come and live with me if they want to) but it is a step along the way.

Take small steps. Start a saving account and put spare cash away whenever you can. Look into housing options for you and DS. Buy a very large case for your stuff! Talk to your HV about the situation and see what help she can offer through SS/housing etc.

One day you will be ready and just go! All the rest is just detail and you will cope.

Well, another week, another blow up. Same situation as the last time I posted, except this time he also told me he would go to court and get the baby by way of telling them I amn an unfit mother because I'm breaking the family up. I left him to cool off and when I came back in the room he said he had been thinking, was sorry about earlier but that had decided that I was right - that he couldn't live here with me like this and not be together so he needs me to sort myself out as quickly as possible and just go. He said it would only work though if I can afford to pay my way here, i.e. half of everything here still, as well as pay to move out and live elsewhere. Now feeling really unsure - I earn too much to get legal aid, but not enough to do what he says I have to. He also took a huge loan out a couple of months ago to consolidate the credit cards but its in his name but he says I have to pay half of that too - he earns twice what I do. And just before he took the loan out my Grandmother gave me £5000 out of my inheritance to help us to live when he got made redundant (this would not have been necessary, except he stuck his head in the sand when he was made redundant and refused to sign on, so none of the insurances we pay for on the credit cards and the mortgage would pay out! So instead of being able to eek out his redundancy pay I ended up using this £5k of my inheritance - which I now feel really peed off about. Because of this I do feel quite aggrieved at having to pay half of this blooming loan he decided we would take out. Anyway, he said I hav e to get sorted as soon as possible and leave as soon as possible. Like I said I don't hav e any money for solicitors, whereas he has said he will rack up the credit cards to pay for a solicitor for himself once I'm gone. All I've wanted to do, and tried to do, is be honest, open and fair, but I'm scared - what happens if he tries to take me to court and I don't hav e a solicitor? Can I defend myself? I'm virtually alone - no family involved, and my friends had a skinful of these problems last time so not sure how much they'll be around... any advice?

p.s. whenallelsefailsmaketea - did you manage to get out without having to still contribute tot he house and bills as well as finding your own place? My problem is we have a joint mortgage - I don't know if he can force me to pay half as well as half of this bloody loan he took out in his name.... HELP!!!

p.p.s. Mega apols for the lack of paragraphs in that last post! Sorry!

You will be able to claim legal aid if he takes you to court. In fact I'd look now at www.legalservices.gov.uk/ and then cross reference with the legal 500 (google it) to find out who is good near to you who you can access.

I'm sorry I don't have any other advice for you.

Look, this man is FULL OF SHIT. He will NOT be able to make you out as an unfit mother and get custody, this is what all abusive men say and it's simply another attempt to control you.
YOu can force the sale of the house I think, there are certainly ways of making sure you are not saddled with his debts.
Remember that you are doing the right thing in freeing yourself from a horrible man who thinks he is entitled to mistreat you. If he cared about the baby's wellbeing he would treat you with respect, not abuse and undermine you.
Best of luck. You can do it, you can get rid of him.

Oh god yes, SGB is right, he won't be able to get custody on that argument, or pretty much any argument he can think of! She is absolutely correct that a lot of abusive husbands or exes threaten this.

Sorry when I said no advice I meant about the financial side of things. I suspect if the loan is in his name you won't have to pay it though. I don't know about the mortgage.

Money, money, money. Why bother talking about the rest? Surely watching Eastenders will sort out everything else?

Thanks SGB! What I needed to hear I think. I haven't been waivering in my resolve - thats why he got nasty earlier, but its a scarey process - especially as in the past he has always managed to scare me so much in the things he's said would be in my future if I left. But this evening all I've been able to think is - carry on you arsewipe, you're just making it easier for me to dislike you. You want me to stay? Are you crazy??! Only five minutes before he'd been telling me he fancied me and trying to get into my knickers!

The other thing is he has a LOT of friends - all over the country - and is very easily led, especially when upset. He'll talk to one person and they'll say what they think and what they think he should do, especially if its sympathetic to him, and he'll do it.

There's no need for solicitors, etc, but someone will convince him I'm a she-devil and that I'm going to con him out of his son and that he should make sure I don't get to do that. It all stores up loads of trouble for me.

I know you're right about forcing the sale of the house - however, he's treated it so badly/objected to spending any sort of money on it I'm not sure we would get anywhere near what we need in terms of the price. Plus I would want to go way before we might be able to sell it, and from experience that will be a period when he will just trash the place, making it even more unsellable. He;s like one of those people who get reposessed and then before leaving trash the place just to get back at the bank (replace "bank" with "me"). If there's nothign in it for him he just doesn't give a toss.

When he left last time (under duress) I didn't want to be around while he moved out, so I went out for the afternoon. Bear in mind I was 6 mths pregnant at the time - I came back to the house to find it looking like it had been burgled. He'd been through our paperwork, taken his and left mine out all over the table, the floor, etc. He and his mate had walked mud ALL OVER the house - upstairs and down, we have cream carpets up and down and it was awful. I just sat and cried. My friend came that evening and hoovered the worst of it up as I was just a lump of jelly by that point.

Anyway, I digress... Sorry.

I have to do it this time - I know I haven't been strong enough before, but I have to be this time. I cannot keep living like this - not knowing what its like to actually be happy at home, to look forward to your partner coming home, looking forward to the weekends, etc. A friend recently put the folloowing as her status: "Yay! Simon's home!" I want to feel like that. I don't want to feel indifferent when he goes away, I don't ever want to go through again what he put me through when our son was born.

So tthis WILL happen, I just need the damn Tax Credits people to get back to me! Aaargh! Anyone know how long it usually takes to get processed??

You're an arse jameelaq. You obviously spend way too much time watching tv. Get a life. Now move along you tw*t. Your "advice" is not wanted here. Pathetic.

I looove Eastenders, me. What are all those white people doing in it tho'? I suppose fiction is stranger than life, eh!

Oh FGS grow up

Up up up, until the big white sky can be seen beyond the fronds of the beans.
You need to tone your offesnsive comments down silveryfox. Remember: "all dogs are grey in the dark"

Well said Silvery, now ignore the muppet!

Can you not get your H to move out? Does he have a divorced or single mate you could get him to call, then perhaps he would get all excited about being two lads out on the pull? Just wondering if some of these friends and his easily-led quality could work in your favour?

Best of luck, the mud story alone should remind you you are doing the right thing.

I would be doubtful he could prove you are an unfit mother just because you want to leave a marriage! However you will have a tougher time denying him joint custody (if he pursues that)

Footlong - I wasn't going to deny him joint custody. However, as he works long hours he will not be able to do weekdays, and as I've said on the other thread he sleeps so deeply he doesn't hear the baby when he wakes at night hence me being on duty 24/7 as well as working full time - surely thats got to count for something.

I was going to say to him every other weekend - and he's welcome to do weekdays as long as he can guarantee to be back early enough to get him from nursery and feed him, bath him and get him into bed on time (7pm) - which is doubtful.

But I don't see why I hsouldn't be able to see and do things with my son at weekends just because he can't be strong enough to say I need to be back in time to collect my son from nursery. As it is at the moment, he's not looked aftr him once when he's been ill on a week day since I've gone back to work. In fact, I have to use my annual leave when the baby is too ill to go to nursery because my DH can't/won't.

I am going to see tomorrow if my company still provides ICAS support. We were recently bought out by another company and all sorts of money saving is going on so not sure if that facility has survived....

Alarmbells - he will not go to a mate's - I tried that last time, and that was when I was initially just asking for some space from him for a few weeks. If only....

SIlveryfox, from what you have said about his past behaviour, you have a good case for getting this man forcibly removed from the house and prevented from returning. Not only is he physically intimdating you, but you are afraid of him committing criminal damage as well (if he destroys your posessions and damages a house that you have a financial interest in, it's criminal damage).
Have you got the past incidents on record at all (ie the damage he did last time)? Honestly, speak to WA and the police domestic violence unit. It's not true that he has to actually put you in hospital for it to count as DV, the psychological abuse is bad enough.

silvery fox i am really concerned - you have mentioned ( and i am paraphrasing) being scared that your husband is extremely big and doesn't know his strength and things being grim and i strongly suspect violence. if this is the case speak it out - even just here - because if this is the case then then whole situation is different than what you have described so far -

Silveryfox, your DH seems to be emotionally abusing you. He reminds me so much of my EXH and really I could have written all your posts myself. If he threatens you with custody again then just encourage him to do so. He has bullied you so much that you actually believe that the courts will take your DS away, they will not do that at all. You have been and will continue to be the primary carer of your DS and no judge will change that at all. Sorry to hijack but I split up with my EXH ten years ago and let him bully me all these years with contact issues because I was so afraid he would seek residence etc. Well he refused to bring my son back after the summer holiday and I went to court and got residence. Before he knew about this he was threatening me with court action not knowing I had already been given residence. It took ten years of being bullied and abused by my EXH even after the split to fully come to terms to how badly he abused me when we were together. Please get out.

I am still on the road to recovery after all these years as the memories of all the emotional abuse I suffered from him came flooding back after the 'kidnapping' incident this summer. Please please get the will to leave and don't subject yourself any longer to his vile and bullying behaviour. Get out and start building up a new life for you and your DS. It will be tough but so worth it in the end

Your DH does not love you if he can subject you to all that emotional abuse. He wants to force you to be with him and to control you. I don't really know how long Tax Credits take but in the meantime you could call Women's Aid to help you while you wait. You don't have to wait for them to reply before acting. I know you are worried about money but you will rise above it, I promise you. When my EXH eventually left he took everything, the car, telly, sofa's - the whole lot because he wanted to scare me into staying with him because he worked and I didnt but it had the opposite effect of reaffirming that I was doing the right thing.

Hi again - thanks for your words of encouragement. But today I got a letter from the Tax Credits people saying that my tax records for last year showed I earned more than what I thought - I had originally rung up the tax credits helpline and they went through the process with me and using my payslips and what I told them I had got in SMP they worked out that I had earned £10,700 for the last tax year. The letter now tells me I earned £15,500 - this means I will get nowhere near what I had been told by tyhe advisor! I felt safe in telling my husband it was over because I thought I could afford to move out! Now it looks like I probably won't be able to afford it! God! This is what happened when I went to the CAB when we split up! Got really bad advice! I probably would be better off giving up full time work wouldn't I? Its so frustrating! I have to take the baby to bed now, but will hopefully be back on later. Just to close - SGB: when i went to court last time, the judge said to my face "its not like he's kicked you in the stomach is it?" !!! I was 5 mths pregnant at the time! So a lot of the time it looks like there DOES have to be physically violent - and the other problem is he's very softly spoken even though so big physically and everybody outside of us thinks he's a big cuddly bear! You have no idea how much people disliked me after I went to court last time - this is people who have known him since a teenager and should know better! I will have to see what they come up with (the Tax Credits I mean!)

Silveryfox, sorry to hear about the bad news from Tax Credits, but it is still doable. For the sake of your sanity, call Women's Aid and sign on if you have to. I have been through all you have been through. My EXH is like your DH, softly spoken etc - a real Jekyll and Hyde character and people (even up to now) think that I am so awful for having divorced him because to others he is the perfect gentleman. After kidnapping my DS the judge even said to him how wonderful he was for having driven to London to come to court WTF, he had to he had kidnapped my DS the bastard.....

You are not alone, feel free to inbox me if you need to. I have been where you are believe me. Be strong, you can do it. Funny enough when I fell pregnant with my DS we had had a split just like you and he had promised to change and I fell for it. Big mistake because it then made it harder for him to believe me when I said it was over and he refused to leave. We ended up having a scuffle with me grabbing my keys off him and he eventually left. I know it is hard but dont let him win and continue bullying you. You and your DS deserve so much more

Hi Silveryfox

Just seen your question about whether I contribute to my DH and DC household bills since I left him. In a word no, but as it was only three weeks ago and is being called a trial separation our finances are still joint.

I have thought hard about this. DH would not consider moving out as he was not unhappy with the situation. I left him and rented a tiny two bed terraced house that I love. He has the five bedroom family home. I have no intention of forcing the issue and making him sell up. But he is enjoying the benefits of living there without paying me any rent on "my" half. So while my DC are still at home (another three years probably) I intend to let things run along as they are.
We are lucky that we both earn enough to support ourselves and have no debts (actually that isn't luck!)So there isn't the same anger and panic over the financial side of a split. And the DC are old enough to look after themselves and decide who to spend time with.
I think when there isnt enough cash to go round it is much harder to be calm and generous.
He can't make you support him even if you are both still liable for your joint debts.
Keep reading about your entitlement and the law. It will help.

Have you already done some calculations on entitledto.com, silveryfox? You can try out various scenarios on their calculator. I really feel you'd benefit from talking to Women's Aid, and the CAB. You've developed a strong sense of dis-entitlement and, if you only speak to advisors whose job description includes limiting the amounts claimed, you'll be too quick to accept you have no hope (it happened to me). This is the very reason why voluntary organisations exist.

We can't tell you often enough ... almost every abusive man tells his partner she'll be labelled an unfit mother. It's rubbish! Just another thought - have you told your GP about everything at home? It could be a great idea, you know.