would you report it?

[wouldliketoknow]

i guess this is the best section for the question.
what do you think we should do as mumsnetters when someone tells us about a crime?
perhaps is our legal obligation to inform the police, specially when children are at risk or someone can't defend themselves, or munsnet must be a safe heaven, where people can talk without being reported, you know, when they wouldn't tell anyone.
what do you think? what would you like if it was you telling us something awful happened to you?

Child protection is everyones responsibility, but this is the net, you cannot take what you read as 100% truth and go around just reporting people. There are some seriously fucked up people on here, judging from a stalkerish thread I read the other day aimed at shineon I think.

MNHQ wouldn't allow it, I would be confident of that, due to the risks of it being a false report, wasting police time etc and the fact that site traffic, so the thing that makes them money would fall flat. If every parent/poster/woman/man thought they were being watched and potentially reported.

You'd attract the attention seeking basket cases and lose the genuine posters.

from the forum management side of things, i agree with this. fwiw.

shine - what was your personal stalker thread about then? I missed that.

I can only think of 2 or 3 ops where it would have been justified in being reported so I don't think it would be happening left, right and centre

Can't say standing by and doing nothing appeals.

Only if you assume the majority of posters are talking crap. Some posts may warrant intervention.....it really isn't that common.

To have a blanket "no interference" is dangerous.

scurry - i agree with you.

Scurry I don't think anyone here is advocating ignoring abuse.

What people are trying to suggest is that a knee jerk reaction may actually not give safety but may make somethings worse, might be abused in use (albeit with good intentions) and might drive underground a safe place for women to start seeking help

Just as a test.... how many of the women who post asking for a tentative opinion on 'is this abuse' would continue to seek help here if they knew their IP address would be hunted down and the police sent around?

victoria - i see what you're saying but what about the women who post over a period of months and months and are still in the situation where there children are being abused?

It would not be a knee jerk reaction though....hopefully it is a decision based on all the circumstances.

Giving advice to someone in a long term abusive relationship is very different from someone crying out for help because they are about to kill themselves or their children.

cross posted - but if someone posted 'is this abuse' then why would they be hunted down? That makes no sense. Like I said Ive only seen 2 or 3 occasions that would warrant further investigation and they have all involved children.

Are people saying do nothing because it's "grassing up"???-i'm not.
Whilst standing by and doing nothing may not appeal, the other side of this is just as unappealing. This is not real life,it's just a site about real life, and the painful truth is that if you took away the protection of anonymity here, more women/children etc would get less help from this site and less access to it in RL. It would be impossible to police anyway, much as some people might like to think they can intervene. Anonymity is and must be the only way, unless a poster waives that of course.

Who are people to judge what warrants investigation?

I see where the phrase MN jury comes from now seriously.

Here seems to do a wonderful job of coaxing women who are being abused out of that situation, opening their eyes, supporting, talking.

If these women were in fear of being reported the forum would fall flat guaranteed.

It's one major reason women don't come forward as the abuser threatens to report them to ss etc. It's why they are frightened to phone, and talk to people. This is an anonymous safe haven.

I think some people could do with taking a step back from the net tbh. Realise it may not be true and if it is, they just have to be as supportive as you can be when the situation is anonymous and very one-sided.

I think SGB saw it as grassing up. It is not impossible to police, just difficult.

'Who are people to judge what warrants investigation?'

In rl if your neighbour told you her h had sexually assaulted her in front of her 5 year old dd you could probably work out for yourself that that warranted investigation.

Its at least two crimes. Therefore if someone writes that on the internet it also should warrant investigation, for the child if not for the woman (she is an adult and can choose whether to action a crime against her I assume, not sure where the law stands if a victim doesnt want to prosecute?)

I'm happy to be called the MN jury in the circumstances above

Perhaps you'd like to put together a policy listing the sorts of red flags that you feel need policing.

Make sure you include a minimum qualification and numbers for staffing this position (paid or volunteer?) and a rota for 24 hour cover in case of 'immediate harm' situations?

Remember emotional neglect is the commonest abuse so red flags for that sort of behaviour (obviously drinking and posting with young chuldren in the house)... or are we only going to judge women in other situations?

If you draft this Scurry ....and present it to MN - they would need to examine the impact on their finances - (possible reduced posts vs reduced income from advertisng maybe vs cost of staffing this position) but I guess that might be the way to get it taken seriously if you feel so strongly about it

Thing is, each individual post/thread has to be treated as exactly that, as it would be in real life.

The thread that has lead to this thread being created was just one case. Just one example of how posters felt. You can't 'blanket' police this IYSWIM.

Yes, there are threads on here that make us all cringe, some of us cry even. Shocking, horrid stories of abuse and violence.

But we don't know if any of it is real. Then again, we don't know that it isn't. So how do you get around that? How do you determine who is real and in danger and who is not.

I am all for helping someone in danger, in need. Protecting children, women and men from being abused and living in complete fear. But how can you know whose those people really are?

but, EB, that's different-if your neighbour told you that then of course you should tell the police, whether or not you think she is telling the truth or a crazy loon. That is much more clear cut than following up every instance of abuse on here, real or not. Isn't the point of a site like this to help empower the people seeking help, to enable them to have the courage to challenge things? i appreciate i sound theoretical,and some of the things on here might require urgent help, but how the hell are you actually going to investigate stuff on here/find out if it's genuine etc? it's not real life, as i said before.

Victoria, I think you are being a little bit silly now. I have said that action can and should be taken if someone is threatening immediate harm. Try and contribute sensibly, there's a love.

victoria - im not sure that's really called for? People are allowed to have differences of opinion without you being sarcastic and unpleasant.

Tell you what, I feel great reading about a 5 yr old girl being on a bed while her father sexually assaults her mother in front of her Its kept me and many other posters awake at night worrying about it, but feel free to make out this argument is about petty things like 'drinking and posting with young children in the house'

The sort of situations I'm talking about everyone would judge (else why do we have 'crimes' and social services etc?) - sexual assault, physical abuse etc.

Peppermint - the facts I outlined that your neighbour tells you are the exact ones in the thread this op is about so Im confused as to your point? If you would of course tell the police then why not if you read it here?

Mouse - you're right you can't know whether its real or not but I think in the few incidents that have happened over the years Ive been here it wouldnt be much wasted police time to check them out if they weren't.

EB i still maintain that people need a safe place to post just as they need safe places in rl. you simply cannot have a reporting system of whatever kind for even the most heinous of crimes-people in need would not post. bluntly, it is not the job of a forum like this to do that. of course everyone can see the wrong, but your way has the potential to make things worse.

How can preventing serious harm or injury to someone make things worse?

PP - Am happy to agree to disagree, I don't feel the need to covert anyone to my cause, I know where the line is for me iyswim and I'm happy with that, as I'm sure everyone else is happy with the lines that they have drawn