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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Are we being selfish?

17 replies

MooMooFarm · 23/08/2010 13:35

DH and I have had not spoken to his parents for a good couple of years. We fell out (initially) over them having a pond put in their garden. At the time they would regularly babysit our children (toddlers at the time) but refused to have a cover on the pond, and accused us of not trusting them to watch our children properly. The resulting argument led to lots of horrible things being said, various old resentments and skeletons being dragged out, to the point that we decided we wanted nothing more to do with them. Always two sides to a story I know, but to summarise they showed themselves to be quite nasty and hugely bigotted people.
We have just been invited to DH's older sister's wedding at the end of the year. We have not fallen out with her and she has tried to keep out of the argument. However, the times we would usually meet up; birthdays, xmas etc, always used to be at DH's parent's house, and now that we don't see them we inevitably haven't seen the rest of his family as much either. Sadly, in trying our best not to 'drag' other family members into the fight, we seem to have been losing contact with them too.
Anyway, as much as we don't want to miss the wedding, we cannot see how we can attend. Any contact with DH's parents (who will be there) over the last two years has turned into a row, and the only way we can ensure that doesn't happen would be if we ignored them all day, which would be very difficult when we are on the same side of a family at a wedding, and would inevitably create a bad apmosphere. However we are very aware that not attending at all could also create an equally bad apmosphere! To further complicate the issue, if we were to attend, would it be better to go with or without our children? We know DH's sister wants her nephews there, but how do we explain to them that we are going to be somewhere with grandma and grandad for the day but we will not be speaking to them? Are we being completely selfish? And apologies that this post is so hideously long!

OP posts:
mummytime · 23/08/2010 14:39

Go to the wedding. Take your sons.

Make sure you take the moral high ground. From my experience, not much of any consequence is said at Weddings. Can you not discuss the weather, how how gifted your son is at the piano etc. with your parents?

I do think its sounds like a hideous fight over very little, but then I wasn't there.

Do mention to your SIL that she needs to be careful with the seating plan, please don't put you close to parents (but I can't see that happening anyhow).

geraldinetheluckygoat · 23/08/2010 14:51

You havent spoken for years as a result of an argument over a garden pond? Really? wow. I am tempted to say make friends and enjoy the wedding. Life is way too short to bear a grudge over something like this.

IfGraceAsks · 23/08/2010 15:27

You're not being selfish, but I think you can manage this event without causing ructions. I assume the real problems lie in what you said after the pond business. It doesn't matter how closely related you are to unpleasant people, they're still capable of being overbearing, insensitive, oafs!

It will mar your SIL's day if you don't join in, though it sounds as if she'd understand. Parents are obligatory at a wedding, unfortunately. Unless it's a small family-only affair, you should be able to avoid them for most of the day. Why not ask SIL to seat you with friends, rather than family, and sit yourselves halfway down the church? Then you'll only have to exchange the usual greetings with M&P, get on with being there for SIL - and have a good time.

I don't see why your children shouldn't speak to their grandparents? Have I missed something?

hugglymugly · 23/08/2010 15:30

Surely everyone knows that an uncovered garden pond is a huge risk when there are little children around. Their refusal to have a safety cover to protect their grandchildren was extraordinary. They sound very self-centred people.

As for the wedding, could you and your children go to the ceremony (so your SIL has photos with her nephews), but not go to the reception? Maybe enlist the help of your SIL and other members of the family to coordinate the after-ceremony situation to keep your DH's parents at a distance?

LittleMissHissyFit · 23/08/2010 15:58

Even my evil step mother (just about) managed to be reasonably civil at my wedding.

you are all grown-ups here, be civil for the wedding day, it's not too much to ask of anyone.

Refuse to engage if that's what it takes and keep reminding them that it is SIL/BIL day. If they try to goad you, then remove yourself and go sit/stand/lurk elsewhere.

Blu · 23/08/2010 16:05

Of course you must go to the wedding, and be perfectly calm, greet PILs, but make sure that you don't engage in any friction, just wander away as soon as greeting done, and make yourself busy and sociable with other people.

You don't have to be on close sociaterms with them, but surely you are adult enough to be in the same space and behave with dignity and grace in the interests of a lovely occasion for your SIL?

Peabody · 23/08/2010 16:13

Am I going mad, or is the second time you've posted this?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1026928-Are-we-being-selfish

violethill · 23/08/2010 16:24

I think you should go to the wedding and stay calm and dignified.

I am also very surprised that you fell out so badly over this issue, and tbh, I really think no one has a right to dictate what someone else has/doesn't have in their house/garden.
Surely you could have just asked them to babysit in your house or found another babysitter, so that visits to their house were only when you were around to supervise?

I agree many people would just get a pond cover to give you peace of mind, but they clearly so your reaction as a criticism of their babysitting skills and took great offence and it's led to a total breakdown.

Very sad. But I think you ought to go to the wedding; it would be hurtful to your SIL not to, after all, it's not her fault there has been this rift.

Squitten · 23/08/2010 16:56

Go to the wedding!

Don't punish your SIL because she has crap parents. Also bear in mind that you'll have all of your DH's family, plus all of the groom's family, plus all of their friends between you and your ILs so there'll be plenty of distractions!

GetOrfMoiLand · 23/08/2010 17:05

Crikey.

I will not judge as i too have fallen out wth family over YEARS of simmering resentment, howevr to fall out over a garden pond seems a bit strange. Perhaps you could have carried on seeing them but just never left them in the garden on their own.

Anyway, like I said not judging, probably that row unravelled years of unsaid nasty things, which I agree is very difficult to get over.

I wouldn't bother going to the wedding - if you have to spend the whole day on non-speakers that will look very odd. Plus if someone says something there is a chance of buggering up SIL's day. But that depends on if your ILs are the argumentative or simmering silent type. Ask your SIL what she would prefer?

Don't suppose there is a chance to bury the hatchet in order to keep the peace on the wedding day, is there?

shimmerysilverglitter · 23/08/2010 17:25

I dont think a garden pond is a strange thing to fall out over at all and I suspect there was a lot more to it than that. Eg my parents refuse to buy a fire guard for their open gas fire. We didnt fall out about it but it is their need to be in control that bugged me, even when I offered to pay for one they refused and were angry that I was questioning their safety decisions. Also had a pretty bad childhood so just one more thing.

I would go OP and just be totally normal. Let the kids wander over and talk to their grandparents if they want to. You shouldn't try to control that relationship unless they truly are horrific, abusive people.

hugglymugly · 23/08/2010 19:35

Peabody, it's a double posting (same day/same time) - that happens sometimes. I'm not sure if MNHQ can merge the two.

But it's been interesting reading the responses to the other posting, as well as this one.

I'm not given to outbursts or over-zealous concerns about health & safety issues, but at the moment I'm feeling somewhat shocked that anyone could think that an uncovered garden pond could be a trivial matter. We have a garden pond and I get concerned when my DH is leaning over it to pull out the pump for cleaning because one slip could be hazardous for him, and he's a grown man. When we had cats, they used to like drinking from the pond, and I was always uneasy watching them leaning further and further over at times when the water level had dropped. If we were to have little ones visiting here, the first thing would be a cover for the pond, I wouldn't even need to be asked about that.

I can well imagine that the lack of concern about a young child's safety could be the last straw for the OP and her DH.

Kudos to the OP for asking for help and support to deal with the upcoming wedding situation as best she can for the sake of her SIL.

MooMooFarm · 25/08/2010 10:47

Thanks for replies - sorry for double post, am new to MN so probably did something daft!

I know it seems over the top over a pond, but that was just a catalyst; DH has always had a slightly shaky relationship with his parents because of FIL treating the family quite badly when he was young - a long time ago but you remember things like that when that person starts slating your own parenting skills.

At the time we did offer to have them babysit at ours, and made it clear they could see their grandchildren at ours whenever they wanted to, despite the argument. However they kept away, apparently holding out for us to go to them (an example of a conversation about this - me "you are welcome to come over here whenever, we're around at the weekend" - them "yes well you know where we are too..." End of conversation and they would then never turn up. They are being very stubborn to the point that we think they believe being right is more important than seeing their grandchildren. And yes I know we are being very stubborn too. Trouble is our youngest is still only just 4 and could topple into a pond and get into trouble. So we're at stalemate really. When it comes to the crunch, I would rather lose contact with them rather than feel bullied into letting my precious 4 year old play in a garden with an uncovered pond so they can make a point that they are right.
Sorry for rattling on. Just wanted to answer points raised.

OP posts:
sayithowitis · 25/08/2010 12:55

We have a pond. it was never covered, even when my DCs were toddlers, because I made sure I supervised them when they were in the garden. If you trusted your MIL to look after your children, I think you should trust that she was able to supervise them adequately, if not, pond or no, why did you allow her to look after your children. There are so many dangers in the average home that are probably more of a problem. I can understand your anxiety, but honestly? I think if you trusted them/her to look after them, unless you have other info that you haven't given here, you should have trusted her about this.

However, it is what it is. many years ago, DH and I had a falling out with a member of the family and as a result, we decided not attend another family member's special occasion. I regret it to this day. I know that our decision was not taken lightly, but I know it caused dreadful hurt for the family member concerned. Things between all of us are fine and the issues with the other person are resolved. But in my heart I know that we caused upset to another, totally innocent person on their special day, and whatever I do, whatever I say, I can never, ever change that. If I could wave a magic wand and go back in time, I would go back to that time and do things very differently.

I am sure your SIL will understand, just as my family member did. But it will not stop her from hurting and feeling sad that some of her family are not sharing her special day because of an argument that did not involve her, yet she is paying part of the price!

I would say go to the wedding. Be polite to the ILs if they speak. Treat them politely but keep a slight distance. You never know, they might be wanting to use this occasion as a way of building bridges with you.

QuickLookBusy · 25/08/2010 13:28

I completely sympathise with you MooMoo.

A neighbour of ours [step grandparents] are today completely devestated as their step granchild is in intensive care after beeing found in the bottom of their swimming pool.
It isnt clear what happened but he wasnt meant to be any where near the pool. It takes seconds for an inquisitve child to get into trouble. It is not worth the risk-and the OPs PIL sound pretty petty and stubborn. Just cover the bloody pond!!

Anyway, I also think you should go to the wedding. Have a chat with SIL, about the seating. Tell DC that GPs will be there, and be relaxed about letting the DC spend abit of time with their GPs. At least you are in the same room and can supervise them!!Wink

slipperandpjsmum · 25/08/2010 21:01

I suspect the garden pond was the straw that broke the camels back.

Schnullerbacke · 25/08/2010 21:28

I am going to suggest to you an even harder thing. Lately I have been facing up to all sorts of things that have kind of been niggling away at me. I was/am fine most of the time but in the background, there are always a few niggly bits. Not sure if you can follow :)

As someone has already said, life is too short and you know what, it really is. I realise that many things have been said, that DH's father was shite at parenting himself, that you have tried to keep contact between your kids and them and they failed to respond BUT and again as someone has said, why don't you stand the moral high ground.

Take this wedding as an opportunity to try and sort this out. Call them and see whether this can be talked about. Never mind about them being stubborn, just get the ball rolling anyway. You don't have to be friends at the end but try to find a working relationship somehow.

Its not your sisters fault, nor your kids. I think you should go to the wedding and I think your kids should be able to talk to them.

Agree to disagree with them, make up rules if it helps ie no interfering in parenting issues, no bringing up the past, make it a grand-child / grand-parents relationship. Keep meeting at your house if pond issue has not been resolved and if they are still stubborn, guilt trip them ie kids are missing you.

I'm waffling, I realise. I guess I'm just saying that enough time has passed and its time to let the negative feelings go.

Good luck.

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